The "Weapon Fixing Megathread" - We fix weapons' stats and get in fights - Games

ok we already discussed this in the update speculation thread so i thought i'd just throw this over here [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/f1/Item_icon_Soda_Popper.png/100px-Item_icon_Soda_Popper.png?t=20120630234309[/img] +25% Reload Speed +50% Firing Speed -66% Clip Size No Random Critical Hits [b]On Hit: Builds Hype[/b] When Hype meter is full, unleash mini-crits [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/e/e6/Item_icon_Baby_Face%27s_Blaster.png/100px-Item_icon_Baby_Face%27s_Blaster.png?t=20120630233443[/img] 40% more accurate On Hit: Builds Boost Run at up to double speed at maximum Boost -30% damage penalty 35% slower move speed on wearer [b]Boost resets on double-jump[/b] (anything bolded is changed) soda popper functions like the FaN but allows you to use it as a hit-and-run weapon notably in mid-air. successfully hitting-and-running (or doing what its made for) rewards the player with mini-crits. baby face's blaster currently loses its boost when you jump at all but i feel item stats should really try to apply to special things only that class can do. scout's normal jump is not any more special than any other class's (other than the scout's movement speed while jumping), but his ability to double jump is, so i feel the risk should be applied to the double jump. still works alongside pocket pistol which was made so that you don't have to use your double jump (specifically) to avoid fall damage.

[QUOTE=R.M.T.B.;41088501]Sadly I usually use the dead ringer in MVM....[/QUOTE] Even with the Dead Ringer it's a direct upgrade from before. [QUOTE=theharribokid;41089569]Having a hidden attribute that directly goes against a written rule sounds like a really stupid idea and will just make people rage and/or think the weapon is broken and/or bugged. How about if it restored cloak but not instantly, like gently regen the amount of cloak it would have taken to fill the bar. That way you could still cloak with the IW instantly as you'd have a tiny bit to start the second you killed but wouldn't allow DR spies to uncloak,backstab,cloak in a perfect cycle.[/QUOTE] That's a fantastic idea. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/c/c9/Item_icon_Big_Earner.png/100px-Item_icon_Big_Earner.png[/IMG] [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img] Refills all ammo on backstab [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img] Slowly regenerates all cloak on backstab [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/16px-Pictogram_minus.png[/img] -25 max health on wearer

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;41089753]There's an easy way to remedy that: On-kill, grant large ammo box to self. Done. It's hardcoded into the Dead Ringer that anything that grants cloak is capped to only give 30% cloak, even if it provides more. Blame the DR, not me.[/QUOTE] Then it would be useless with the Cloak and Dagger.

[QUOTE=TheJoey;41091015]baby face's blaster currently loses its boost when you jump at all but i feel item stats should really try to apply to special things only that class can do. scout's normal jump is not any more special than any other class's (other than the scout's movement speed while jumping), but his ability to double jump is, so i feel the risk should be applied to the double jump. still works alongside pocket pistol which was made so that you don't have to use your double jump (specifically) to avoid fall damage.[/QUOTE] Big disagree on this one. First off Scout's normal jump is definitely more special than the other classes, his speed means he covers more distance with a jump than anyone else. Extend this to full boost BFB and you're gonna be jumping really far, I don't think people realize how much mobility this would actually give. Secondly the whole no-jumping thing is really what makes the BFB unique. Instead of typing out basically the same thing here's snip from a post I found from another forum that explains it well: [quote]Leave the jumping-around playstyle to the scattergun; it's got the role covered, and this gun is meant to give you something new. What this gun does give you is the amazing satisfaction of being the fastest thing in the world of TF2, bar none. When you switch back to scattergun, you will feel slow, and that's really saying something. It's almost hard to exaggerate just how ridiculously fast this gun lets you run, and how easy it is to obtain this speed. After mid-range heckling some players earlier tonight, I was able to reliably go from an empty boost meter to full in about two seconds. There were several occasions were I was able to entice scattergun scouts into following me into a hallway, and I was actually fast enough to run all the way around through a flanking route and kill them from behind when they thought they were still on my tail. There was also a funny situation in which I stumbled upon a level three sentry out in the open, and was actually able to break out of its targeting system by simply running in a straight line past it and out of its range. I actually didn't lose too much health from the encounter, which is amazing considering it would have been impossible to bypass the sentry with the scattergun unless I had Bonk as well. The sheer speed you get from the Blaster opens TF2 up to a fun, fresh new kind of mobility- just booking it. As fast as a normal scout is on foot, his mobility also includes a lot of hopping around, using height advantage, cutting corners by jumping over gaps, etc. With a maxed out boost meter, I'm not even kidding when I tell you you don't even need to jump to get where you need to go most of the time. Say you're going from Gravel Pit A to C, for instance. Usually you'd just jump from the A/C connector tunnel onto the hut, from the hut onto the second level of the C tower, and from there just run up onto the point. If you had a maxed out boost meter and wanted to avoid jumping, you could simply drop from the A/C connector tunnel off the ledge to the lower area, spiral your way up the tower all the way from the bottom, and you'd still probably make it there faster than the scattergun scout. And whenever you are forced to jump to get somewhere (out of the attic in Harvest for instance), like I said, it takes very little damage to get your speed back up.[/quote]

[QUOTE=theharribokid;41089569]Having a hidden attribute that directly goes against a written rule sounds like a really stupid idea and will just make people rage and/or think the weapon is broken and/or bugged. How about if it restored cloak but not instantly, like gently regen the amount of cloak it would have taken to fill the bar. That way you could still cloak with the IW instantly as you'd have a tiny bit to start the second you killed but wouldn't allow DR spies to uncloak,backstab,cloak in a perfect cycle.[/QUOTE] DR already regens crazy fast, but what about it froze your cloak for a short period of time on backstab? No regen, no drain. It'd work nicely with the stab'n'cloak strategy. DR spies with empty cloak would have to think twice before stab, but on the other hand, they'd also profit with full cloak.

[QUOTE=t man;41093730]Big disagree on this one. First off Scout's normal jump is definitely more special than the other classes, his speed means he covers more distance with a jump than anyone else. Extend this to full boost BFB and you're gonna be jumping really far, I don't think people realize how much mobility this would actually give. Secondly the whole no-jumping thing is really what makes the BFB unique. Instead of typing out basically the same thing here's snip from a post I found from another forum that explains it well:[/QUOTE] The issue is with maps that prevent you from getting off of ledges/to areas of the map without jumping The 50000 overlook ledges with fences covering them, hightower's spawn being the best i can name off of the top of my head

-snip-

[QUOTE=RandomGamer342;41093995]The issue is with maps that prevent you from getting off of ledges/to areas of the map without jumping The 50000 overlook ledges with fences covering them, hightower's spawn being the best i can name off of the top of my head[/QUOTE] There's not [I]that[/I] many ledges like that, and even so, I'd contend that you're still fast enough to find another way around in about the same time. Another thing to remember is that you can jump without penalty if you're heading to the action and don't have boost yet, so Hightower's spawn like you mentioned shouldn't be an issue.

[QUOTE=AlphaAGENT;40604877][img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/c/c9/Item_icon_Axtinguisher.png/100px-Item_icon_Axtinguisher.png[/img] [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/2d/Item_icon_Postal_Pummeler.png/100px-Item_icon_Postal_Pummeler.png[/img] [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/7/7b/Item_icon_Flare_Gun.png/100px-Item_icon_Flare_Gun.png[/img] + Crits on Already Burning Enemies - All Crits on Burning enemies become mini crits used With Degreaser There, was that really so hard TF2 team?[/QUOTE] honestly I find the reserve shooter to be better than any of those. Flaregun is projectile and slow, axtinguisher requires you to get dangerously close

[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/b/b4/Item_icon_Diamondback.png/100px-Item_icon_Diamondback.png[/img] [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img]Mini-crits while there is a sapper attached to a building [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/img]-50% Sapper Health (Engineer can remove the sapper with one hit) [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/img]No random crits

people need to stop with suggesting buffs/nerfs to random Medic melee weapons to prevent a straight upgrade. This is just one of those things you can't fix really. TF2 was not made with unlocks in mind, that came later so things like the bonesaw not having a reason to be used is simply a relic/leftover from that era. Nerfing a medic weapon would be the stupidest thing you can do to a class that just barely has enough variety to be fun. I know Valve likes the sidegrade model but two exceptions for already outclassed weapons won't kill it.

Or they could make any melee weapon that adds a new ability take away an ability? So instead of giving up your useless axe for a utility item, you lose some other ability as well or you get a passive downside like less health, less ammo etc. Not that hard.

I thought it would be cool if the amputator had 1 health drained per second, but the medieval set got +2 health per second. The Amputator would have an actual downside, and the medieval set wouldn't change at all.

[QUOTE=Dr. Doughnut;41107295]I thought it would be cool if the amputator had 1 health drained per second, but the medieval set got +2 health per second. The Amputator would have an actual downside, and the medieval set wouldn't change at all.[/QUOTE] The +1 health gained per second is a fucking negligible benefit in the set. If it was like 4 or 5 health per second, I'd see a very good benefit. In about 10 seconds you'd regen yourself a small health pack, and in TF2 10 seconds is a long time.

[QUOTE=C4rnage;41106608][IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/b/b4/Item_icon_Diamondback.png/100px-Item_icon_Diamondback.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG]Mini-crits while there is a sapper attached to a building [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG]-50% Sapper Health (Engineer can remove the sapper with one hit) [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG]No random crits[/QUOTE] Leave this thread. You're trying to "balance" something that is perfectly fine, just because the people you see using it know their job.

[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/3/33/Backpack_Flame_Thrower.png/90px-Backpack_Flame_Thrower.png?t=20111119222833[/IMG] [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG]Has hit detection fixed [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/fa/Backpack_Degreaser.png/90px-Backpack_Degreaser.png?t=20111119193030[/IMG] [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG]Doesn't have hit detection fixed

[QUOTE=DatWut?;41111426]Leave this thread. You're trying to "balance" something that is perfectly fine, just because the people you see using it know their job.[/QUOTE] actualy i never saw anyone using it. cant see how this weapon is "fine", its only a good option if there is atleast 2 bad engineers with no support from their team. wont leave the thread, if you dont like the idea just rate disagree/dumb.

Give a crit when you sap a building, not when you destroy it, and it's fixed With a same-building cooldown so you can't spam it

I say make it a general utility revolver. So you get it for doing spy related things that most people don't usually do; refreshing the intel when it's about to disappear, or taking out an enemy who is proving difficult for your team mates. Maybe those examples aren't very good, but the idea is there.

Remove Random Crits on the Bushwacka! :yarr:

[QUOTE=C4rnage;41119797]actualy i never saw anyone using it. cant see how this weapon is "fine", its only a good option if there is atleast 2 bad engineers with no support from their team. wont leave the thread, if you dont like the idea just rate disagree/dumb.[/QUOTE] Sap'n'Stab stopped being a thing? Shame. No seriously, even good Engineers die to that. Also, If you constantly sap a teleporter, the Engineer can't repair it fast enough, so it will eventually go down, giving you 2 free crits. [editline]21st June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Prollgurke;41124518]Remove Random Crits on the Bushwacka! :yarr:[/QUOTE] Totally fucking agree there. I mean come the fuck on, imagine this: You're playing Spy, get covered in Jarate and dodge the Bushwacka. As soon as the effect wears off, you engage the Sniper again, only to get killed by a crit.

[QUOTE=DatWut?;41124958]Sap'n'Stab stopped being a thing? Shame. No seriously, even good Engineers die to that. Also, If you constantly sap a teleporter, the Engineer can't repair it fast enough, so it will eventually go down, giving you 2 free crits.[/quote] still not worth, Vodkavia explained why. also its the least used pistol by spies, its clearly a weak weapon.

How to fix the Diamondback: [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/3/39/Backpack_Diamondback.png/90px-Backpack_Diamondback.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG] Gains a guaranteed crit for every building [B]or robot[/B] destroyed with your sapper attached [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG] (downsides) Bam. The item will actually get some use for once, [I]and[/I] the Spy can get the MvM buff he's always needed. It'll be like the Spy's Fan-o-War.

[QUOTE=TwoYearLurker;41126932]How to fix the Diamondback: [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/3/39/Backpack_Diamondback.png/90px-Backpack_Diamondback.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG] Gains a guaranteed crit for every building [B]or robot[/B] destroyed with your sapper attached [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG] (downsides) Bam. The item will actually get some use for once, [I]and[/I] the Spy can get the MvM buff he's always needed. It'll be like the Spy's Fan-o-War.[/QUOTE] I think making it useful in mvm is a good idea, but i don't really think they need to add it as a stat, just treat that it doesn't do that already as a bug and fix it.

I know we haven't had a vanilla class change since forever, but what if there was an invisible circle around your buildings, say, 2 meters wide, in which other engineers couldn't build buildings of the same type. Goodbye sentry/dispenser piles. At the same time, though, you'd be able to build buildings that aren't of the same type, so you could build a sentry in front of someone else's dispenser, or teleporter, or whatever. Let me know if there's a reason not to do this.

[QUOTE=Drury;41138334]I know we haven't had a vanilla class change since forever, but what if there was an invisible circle around your buildings, say, 2 meters wide, in which other engineers couldn't build buildings of the same type. Goodbye sentry/dispenser piles. At the same time, though, you'd be able to build buildings that aren't of the same type, so you could build a sentry in front of someone else's dispenser, or teleporter, or whatever. Let me know if there's a reason not to do this.[/QUOTE] A reason not to do this? Not sure of you count Minisentries as the same type as normal Sentries. Sometimes I put my Minisentry next to a normal Sentry to give the other Engineer some more proetection. Also, Dispenser piles are quite helpful. For a Heavy, it takes rather long to restore all your health, even with a level 3 Dispenser.

On one hand, minis are okay to nerf, on the other, I feel like nerfing items should affect people's habits only if it's necessary, which it is not in this case. So I guess minis should be counted as different from normal sentries in this regard. Yeah, and I thought of the dispenser health stack thing, but that's sorta you know... Not cool already. Yes, it's fair since piled dispensers are easy to take out all at once, but still, 3 of them are essentially a resupply locker.

[QUOTE=Drury;41139902]On one hand, minis are okay to nerf, on the other, I feel like nerfing items should affect people's habits only if it's necessary, which it is not in this case. So I guess minis should be counted as different from normal sentries in this regard. Yeah, and I thought of the dispenser health stack thing, but that's sorta you know... Not cool already. Yes, it's fair since piled dispensers are easy to take out all at once, but still, 3 of them are essentially a resupply locker.[/QUOTE] It also means that every dispenser build is an engy that is defenseless if you use an uber demo like always.

[QUOTE=TwoYearLurker;41126932]How to fix the Diamondback: [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/3/39/Backpack_Diamondback.png/90px-Backpack_Diamondback.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG] Gains a guaranteed crit for every building [B]or robot[/B] destroyed with your sapper attached [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG] (downsides) Bam. The item will actually get some use for once, [I]and[/I] the Spy can get the MvM buff he's always needed. It'll be like the Spy's Fan-o-War.[/QUOTE] How to really fix a diamondback: [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG] Guaranteed minicrits for the first N seconds while a sapper is attached to any building.

[QUOTE=TwoYearLurker;41126932]How to fix the Diamondback: [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/3/39/Backpack_Diamondback.png/90px-Backpack_Diamondback.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG] Gains a guaranteed crit for every building [B]or robot[/B] destroyed with your sapper attached [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG] (downsides) Bam. The item will actually get some use for once, [I]and[/I] the Spy can get the MvM buff he's always needed. It'll be like the Spy's Fan-o-War.[/QUOTE] I actually remember being all hyped for diamondback in MvM during the update hype. Seeing it's stats not get carried over to robots was rather disappointing.