The "Weapon Fixing Megathread" - We fix weapons' stats and get in fights

[hawk18727]

[B]The Pomson 6000[/B]
Functions identically to the Righteous Bison
[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG]Penetration is back.
[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/16px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG]Damage is identical to the Righteous Bison's one.
[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/16px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG]No ubercharge drain on hit.
[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/16px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG]No cloak drain on hit.

[AbeX300]

[QUOTE=VintageCat;40606255]Actually not, there's just a long delay between swings[/QUOTE]

Correct. It's another one of those attributes that uses inverted percentage. So having the value at 2 (which is for this case) would make the attack interval at 1.6s. Though, there seems to be a cap as to how fast you can fire/swing, so setting the value to 0 wouldn't necessarily make it simultaneous.

[Hell-met]

[QUOTE=AbeX300;40606101][img]http://i.imgur.com/O1EhBpW.png[/img]

[b]EDIT:[/b] Fixed description, now actually says "decloak".

Normally, it'd be [i]0.5 sec longer Cloak blink time[/i] for the downside.

Statistics
----------
Decloak Fade Time:
 = Player: 3.0s
 = World:  2.6s

This is to eliminate the problem with the Dead Ringer, since the cloak does not flicker at all with that item. It also fits pretty well with the upside![/QUOTE]

psch

i did exactly this in the other weapons thread and you rated dumb :C

[Zadrave]

[QUOTE=DatWut?;40606068]You couldn't attack at all with that thing.[/QUOTE]

100% slower = 2x slower

[AbeX300]

[QUOTE=Hell-met;40606540]psch

i did exactly this in the other weapons thread and you rated dumb :C[/QUOTE]

That post mostly contained dumb ideas. :c

[b]Some[/b] of them were good, though. I guess I'll just snip that Saharan Spy post then.

[DatWut?]

You guys know, we don't only need people to suggest new stats, we need to discuss other peoples' suggestions.

[editline]11th May 2013[/editline]

[QUOTE=Zadrave;40605700][B]The Axtinguisher[/B]
100% critical hit vs burning players
-50% damage vs non-burning players
No critical hits vs non-burning players
-20% slower weapon switch

Bye bye deagreaser + axtinguisher pyros, and it also encourages to use it more tactically.[/QUOTE]

You're downright punishing those who don't use that combo because there's others using it.

[Scizor]

[QUOTE=Exparagus;40604863][t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/5/58/Backpack_Half-Zatoichi.png[/t]
No random critical hits

Would that make it balanced?[/QUOTE]

Implying it's underpowered

[AbeX300]

[QUOTE=Scizor;40608830]Implying it's underpowered[/QUOTE]

Don't you mean the opposite?

[Nightfury Treann]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/2tEOO49.png[/IMG]

Reverses 25 upgrade points per second on enemy building construction
-100% Sapper damage penalty

E.G: Spy saps Engie's lvl 3 Sentry for 4 seconds, Engie breaks it and the sentry is now lvl 2 with 100 upgrade points.

[Mentlegen]

The problem is the Degreaser and not the Axtinguisher. It requires skill and timing to use it without the Degreaser. You have a debate on whether or not it is worthwhile to pull it out, and it becomes more of an ambush weapon.

Instead of:

[b]The Degreaser[/b]
[i]Level 10 Flame Thrower[/i]
65% faster weapon switch
-25% burn damage penalty
-10% damage penalty

It should be:

[b]The Degreaser[/b]
[i]Level 10 Flame Thrower[/i]
35% faster weapon switch
-10% burn damage penalty
-10% damage penalty

Something along these lines that downs the upside and lessens the downsides to compensate.

[Spazi]

[t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/8/88/Backpack_Eviction_Notice.png[/t]
This is a direct downgrade and needs a rework.
Even without the dps penalty it'd still be a downgrade, because faster hitting weapons require you to get close twice as frequently, which is extremely hard as the slowest class.

[kunst_deco]

I think the Axtinguisher shouldn't have 100% crit damage, so instead of 195 it does about 95, not 1 hitting most classes.

[NateDude]

I posted this in the Original Weapon Ideas thread,

[QUOTE][B]The Funboats[/B]
[SUP]Level 1 Soldier Secondary Passive Item[/SUP]

[U]+35% Critical Hit Resistance.
+5% Rocket Jump Damage Resistance.[/U]
[I][U]Rocket Jump Damage Resistance Scales with health, where every 20 Health = +10% Resistance.[/U][/I]
[U][highlight]+20% Enemy Explosive Damage Taken.[/highlight][/U]

Designed to be less effective Gunboats initially, but turn your rockets into Rocket-Jumper quality rockets when at extremely low health. The downside is that it only applies for Rocket Jumps, and if you're not careful while retreating or going forward any minor bumps or bullets will kill you.[/QUOTE]

But I feel if those became the Gunboats stats, it would be alot more viable, as well as useful. Right now it's a DECENT soldier side-grade, but its defense bonus isn't enough to warrant use. With this, it becomes useful at the RIGHT time, and pairs well with the Escape Plan and Equalizer.

[Mr. Jelly]

[B]The Reserve Shooter[/B]
[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG] Not equippable by Pyro
[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG] Some small buff, like (slightly) even faster switch speed or maybe tighter spread

[DatWut?]

[QUOTE=Mr. Jelly;40609454][B]The Reserve Shooter[/B]
[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG] Not equippable by Pyro[/QUOTE]

That I can agree on. But why tighter spread?

[editline]12th May 2013[/editline]

[QUOTE=Talishmar;40609319][t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/8/88/Backpack_Eviction_Notice.png[/t]
This is a direct downgrade and needs a rework.
Even without the dps penalty it'd still be a downgrade, because faster hitting weapons require you to get close twice as frequently, which is extremely hard as the slowest class.[/QUOTE]

My idea would be to give it the bats' stats.

[Unisath]

[QUOTE=Exparagus;40604863][t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/5/58/Backpack_Half-Zatoichi.png[/t]
No random critical hits

Would that make it balanced?[/QUOTE]

why the fuck is everyone disagreeing with this

I don't care that it's a soldier weapon, getting a random crit that simultaneously heals you to full health is completely retarded, melee weapon or not

maybe change it to full health for killing other zatoichi holders, but it drops a medium health pack (or heals for half health immediately, whatever) otherwise? just [I]something[/I] so that demoknights with this damned thing don't get a lucky crit (which goes against the whole fucking point of demo swords) and waltz away completely unharmed

[Mr. Jelly]

[QUOTE=DatWut?;40609468]That I can agree on. But why tighter spread?[/QUOTE]

I don't really know, it seems that

well

I don't really know :v:

[RandomGamer342]

[QUOTE=Unisath;40609484]why the fuck is everyone disagreeing with this

I don't care that it's a soldier weapon, getting a random crit that simultaneously heals you to full health is completely retarded, melee weapon or not

maybe change it to full health for killing other zatoichi holders, but it drops a medium health pack (or heals for half health immediately, whatever) otherwise? just [I]something[/I] so that demoknights with this damned thing don't get a lucky crit (which goes against the whole fucking point of demo swords) and waltz away completely unharmed[/QUOTE]

"No random critical hits" should be removed on the demoman's swords and instead be given to his shields

"Melee weapons cannot randomly critical hit"

[Outro-intro]

[t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/b/b6/Backpack_Amputator.png[/t]

[B]The fixed amputator[/B]
+ Taunt heals people in a small radius
-take mini crits while taunting

The amputator is a straight upgrade, this will balance it out.

[Bynine]

To whomever keeps trying to fix the Axtinguisher: My [URL=http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1269839&p=40605020&viewfull=1#post40605020]previous post[/URL] did fix the Axtinguisher. In fact, it pretty much fixes all of the ridiculous combo Pyro problems. Not trying to be a dick, but the problem would be fixed.

Also, that Amputator is still better than the Bonesaw, because it still provides an opportunistic taunt that the Bonesaw fails to.

[Bug-a-boo]

[QUOTE=DatWut?;40609468]That I can agree on. But why tighter spread?

[editline]12th May 2013[/editline]

My idea would be to give it the bats' stats.[/QUOTE]
Bat's stats plus slight heavy speed boost (Not to the extent of gru)

[DatWut?]

[QUOTE=Bynine;40609672]To whomever keeps trying to fix the Axtinguisher: My [URL=http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1269839&p=40605020&viewfull=1#post40605020]previous post[/URL] did fix the Axtinguisher. In fact, it pretty much fixes all of the ridiculous combo Pyro problems. Not trying to be a dick, but the problem would be fixed.

Also, that Amputator is still better than the Bonesaw, because it still provides an opportunistic taunt that the Bonesaw fails to.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure if I'd want to see a shitload of Pyros with 10% more movement speed.

[Everything]

You know what I've always insisted needs a change? Targe and Screen, but not in the way a lot of folks think.

[b]WITH SHIELD:[/b] Weapons such as the Bottle, Scotsman's Skullcutter and Half-Zatoichi [b]cannot ever random melee crit.[/b]

[b]WITHOUT SHIELD:[/b] Weapons such as the Eyelander, Clad and Persian Persuader [b]can random melee crit.[/b]

Basically, you're trading random crits for crits you can control, and it also allows certain weapons like the Eyelander and Clad to actually be useful with no shield.

It's mostly to counter the laughably overpowered Screen/Zatoichi combo and its ability to crit twice as often [i]and[/i] regain all health from it. Caber is unaffected though.

[Bynine]

[QUOTE=DatWut?;40609715]I'm not sure if I'd want to see a shitload of Pyros with 10% more movement speed.[/QUOTE]

Well, they'd have a gimped flamethrower, too; it's not like they're getting 10% more speed [I]and[/I] a Backburner.

[DatWut?]

[QUOTE=Bynine;40609829]Well, they'd have a gimped flamethrower, too; it's not like they're getting 10% more speed [I]and[/I] a Backburner.[/QUOTE]
True. But then again, the Degreaser's faster weapon switch is useful with the Homewrecker, and to be honest, I personally do not want to sacrifice that.
Doesn't mean the idea is bad. Of course, it does fix DegrAxti Pyros, but "cripples" some other things too.

[Everything]

Add 50% weakness to explosives to the Degreaser. Force Pyros that want easy Axtinguisher kills to be either stealthy or godlike reflectors.

The main thing that frustrates me about it as a whole is that an oncoming Degreasquisher can tank three rockets to the face and STILL sting me.

[Kegan]

[QUOTE=mphayes97;40605406]
[B]The Cow Mangler 5000[/B]
[t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/t]Does not require ammo
[t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/t]Alt-fire: A charged shot that mini-crits players and disables buildings for 4 sec
[t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/t]+25% clip size
[t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/16px-Pictogram_minus.png[/t]-20% damage penalty
[t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/16px-Pictogram_minus.png[/t]-80% damage penalty to buildings ([I]This is what it is now, just worded differently[/I])
[t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/16px-Pictogram_minus.png[/t]No random critical hits
[/QUOTE]

I wholeheartedly agree with this one, please valve just remove the reload penalty

[DatWut?]

[QUOTE=Everything;40609944]Add 50% weakness to explosives to the Degreaser.

Force Pyros that want easy Axtinguisher kills to be either stealthy or godlike reflectors.[/QUOTE]

Cripples those that use the Gas Jockey set.
Unless the Set would nullify that.

[Everything]

25% then? How much would you say is enough to really make combo Pyros think twice about kamikazeing a Soldier?

Actually, you know how I would redesign it?

[b]The Degreaser:[/b]
+ 65% faster weapon switch
+ 25% damage bonus
- 100% afterburn duration (no afterburn)

Makes it totally unusable with the Axtinguisher. And a real-life grease removal torch works in much the same way; burns VERY hot, doesn't actually ignite anything, just charring/melting the grease away instead.

This would synergize with the set's speed bonus too, allowing you to chase quicker targets more easily to keep the heat on them.

[AbeX300]

I suppose if DatWut wants people to also comment on other players' stats...well, got nothin' else to do, might as well review the first page~

[QUOTE=Exparagus;40604863][t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/5/58/Backpack_Half-Zatoichi.png[/t]
No random critical hits

Would that make it balanced?[/QUOTE]

I'll be very honest, this wouldn't be too bad of an idea. Though, if a [b]lot[/b] of people are not fond of the idea, I suppose an alternative stat would be needed. But I'd have to be in a brainstorming mood to figure out something like that...

[QUOTE=LightFlock;40604868][B]Winger[/B]
+20% Damage dealt
+30% Firing speed
-60% clip size[/QUOTE]

This actually seems to counteract with the clip size very nicely!

For the normal Winger, it'd take 0.75s to use the entire clip. In that span of time, you've dealt 85 damage.
For the Pistol, it'd take 1.8s to use the entire clip. In 0.75s, it'd deal 75 damage, which is 10 damage less, but then it keeps going for 7 more shots, while the Winger needs to spend 1.25 more seconds to reload. In 4 seconds, the Pistol fires 18 shots (270 damage), and the Winger fires 10 shots (180 damage). [b]A 90 damage difference.[/b]

With [b]your[/b] suggestion, the attack interval becomes 0.105, and the damage raises up to 18 per shot. It now takes 0.525s to finish a clip (90 damage, 45 more damage than the Pistol in 0.45s). In 4 seconds, the modified Winger fires 14 shots (252 damage).

So this becomes even more of a finisher weapon, [b]or[/b] a weapon for some burst of damage. Not sure why that post has been getting dumbs... Though, the one thing I would suggest is probably increasing the reload time, or lowering the clip size by 1 bullet.

[QUOTE=AlphaAGENT;40604877][img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/c/c9/Item_icon_Axtinguisher.png/100px-Item_icon_Axtinguisher.png[/img] [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/2d/Item_icon_Postal_Pummeler.png/100px-Item_icon_Postal_Pummeler.png[/img] [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/7/7b/Item_icon_Flare_Gun.png/100px-Item_icon_Flare_Gun.png[/img]
+ Crits on Already Burning Enemies
- Mini Crits when used With Degreaser

There, was that really so hard TF2 team?[/QUOTE]

Yeah, no.

[QUOTE=Deodorant;40605010][B]The Gunslinger[/B]
[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/fd/Pictogram_info.png/15px-Pictogram_info.png[/IMG] (Compared to existing stats)
[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG] Mini-sentry damage is affected by ramp-up at close range.
[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG] +15% movement speed on wielder.
[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG] Mini-sentry damage is affected by falloff at long range.
[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG] Mini-sentries can only rotate 135° in each direction (has a 90° blind spot)

For those who don't keep a meticulous record of everything I ever say, I think the Gunslinger is more or less balanced but badly designed. The concept is cool, but the current existing stats makes it feel unrewarding to play with and unfun to play against. The suggested stats would hopefully make it more reliant on the Engineer placing his sentries intelligently and fighting alongside them, and make the sentries feel less cheap to get killed by.[/QUOTE]

I don't think the Engineer needs a faster move speed, considering how he already has a health bonus and the Mini-Sentry. But other than that, I can accept this!

[QUOTE=DatWut?;40605013][B]The Degreaser[/B]
+65% faster weapon switch time
- +25% airblast cost
-reflected projectiles do no turn into mini-crits
(-25% afterburn damage penalty)
(-10% damage penalty)

Not sure if we'd still need the last two, but with these stats, the Degreaser would be perfect for being able to quickly switch to your primary from any other weapon to deflect an incoming rocket, at the price for less damage. If you want more damage with deflecting, use stock and overthink your actions.

For the Axtinguisher I thouhgt of this, but it's a rather meh idea, at least I think it is:
[B]The Axtinguisher[/B]
100% [U]mini-[/U]critical hit vs burning players
[U]+On hit: target takes increased afterburn damage
+On hit: target can not be extinguished until burn duration time ends
[/U]-50% damage vs non-burning players
No critical hits vs non-burning players

I underlined my changes. With that, you'd still deal more damage on burning players than with the normal axe. In addition, the Axtinguisher plays the critswing animation and sound randomly, and while your target is burning, you can still deal a randomcrit to your target (just like any other melee).[/QUOTE]

For the Degreaser, the problem still exists that it [b]switches too damn fast[/b]. Better downsides than the original, but nowhere near enough to counteract the upside.

For the Axtinguisher, this is actually quite an interesting idea! Though, would the afterburn deal mini-crit damage after being hit by the Axtinguisher? If not, it wouldn't be enough to kill a Medic, which I think I would prefer it that way... The only thing that I'd suggest would be to replace "No crits vs. non-burning" with "No random critical hits". Being able to randomly crit on a player to chunk off a lot more health than the regular Axtinguisher seems kinda ridiculous...

[QUOTE=Bynine;40605020][IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/fa/Backpack_Degreaser.png/90px-Backpack_Degreaser.png[/IMG]

+10% movespeed on wearer
-25% burn damage penalty
-10% damage penalty

[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/d/dc/Backpack_The_Gas_Jockey%27s_Gear_Bundle.png/100px-Backpack_The_Gas_Jockey%27s_Gear_Bundle.png[/IMG]

65% faster weapon switch
+10% bullet damage vulnerability on wearer

There.

Note: This also fixes the Axtinguisher.[/QUOTE]

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, VALVE, DO THIS FIX. This is a brilliant idea!

[QUOTE=mphayes97;40605101]From Selbi's balancing videos:
[B]The Degreaser[/B]
[t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/t]65% faster weapon switch
[t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/16px-Pictogram_minus.png[/t]-10% damage penalty
[t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/16px-Pictogram_minus.png[/t]-75% afterburn duration

Just enough time to get the axe or flare.[/QUOTE]

This also works, but not as well as the above!

[QUOTE=DatWut?;40605250][B]The Splendid Screen[/B]
Can deal charge impact damage at any range
+70% increase in charge impact damage
+20% fire damage resistance on wearer
+15% explosive damage resistance on wearer
[U]-heads taken with the Eyelander do not increase the impact damage
-guarantees only mini-crits after a charge[/U]

As of now, you can one-hit a Scout with the shieldbash alone, given that you have 5 heads. You can even quickly kill an overhealed Soldier (or full-health Heavy) if you have 5 heads; the shieldbash would deal 130 damage, plus 195 damage from the Eyelander's Crit, making it a total of 325 damage
In case you're using the Skullcutter, you could also combo-kill a Soldier, or even a Heavy:
80 damage (shield) + 234 damage (Skullcutter) = 314 damage

[editline]11th May 2013[/editline]

Talking about charging and melee weapons:
[B]The Claidheamh Mòr[/B]
0.5 sec increase in charge duration
No random critical hits
-15 max health on wearer
[U]+On kill: 66% of your charge meter is restored[/U][/QUOTE]

For the Splendid Screen, I'll gladly accept the change.

For the Claidheamh Mor, I'd also accept, but it doesn't really help that it's situational without a shield, with the only upside being increased weapon range.

[QUOTE=mphayes97;40605406][B]The Winger[/B]
[t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/t]+15% damage bonus
[t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/t]Crits whenever it would normally mini-crit
[t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/16px-Pictogram_minus.png[/t]-65% clip size
[t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/16px-Pictogram_minus.png[/t]No random critical hits
([I]Use it with the Soda Popper for Hype-crits[/I])

[B]The Sun-on-a-Stick[/B]
[t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/t]On hit: target is engulfed in flames
[t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/t]100% critical hit vs burning players
[t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/16px-Pictogram_minus.png[/t]100% slower swing speed
[t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/16px-Pictogram_minus.png[/t]-25% damage penalty
[t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/16px-Pictogram_minus.png[/t]No random critical hits

[B]The Liberty Launcher[/B]
[t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/t]Increased vertical push force
[t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/t]+40% projectile speed
[t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/16px-Pictogram_minus.png[/t]-25% damage penalty
[t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/16px-Pictogram_minus.png[/t]-25% slip size

[B]The Cow Mangler 5000[/B]
[t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/t]Does not require ammo
[t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/t]Alt-fire: A charged shot that mini-crits players and disables buildings for 4 sec
[t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/t]+25% clip size
[t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/16px-Pictogram_minus.png[/t]-20% damage penalty
[t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/16px-Pictogram_minus.png[/t]-80% damage penalty to buildings ([I]This is what it is now, just worded differently[/I])
[t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/16px-Pictogram_minus.png[/t]No random critical hits

[B]The Gunboats[/B]
[t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/t]-60% damage taken from rocket jumps
[t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/t]-75% reduction in push force taken from damage
[t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/t]Deals 3x falling damage to the player you land on
[t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/fd/Pictogram_info.png/15px-Pictogram_info.png[/t]The Mantreads are a reskin of the Gunboats.

[B]The Equalizer[/B]
[t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/fd/Pictogram_info.png/15px-Pictogram_info.png[/t]The Escape Plan and the Equalizer are remerged
[t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/16px-Pictogram_minus.png[/t]No random critical hits

[B]The Homewrecker[/B]
[t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/t]+100% damage vs buildings
[t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/t]-40% damage taken from sentries
[t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/t]-75% reduction in push force taken by damage from sentries
[t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/t]Damage removes sappers
[t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/16px-Pictogram_minus.png[/t]-50% damage vs players
[t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/16px-Pictogram_minus.png[/t]-25% slower move speed on wearer when active[/QUOTE]

For the Winger, it's situationally overpowered. It's still mostly a useless piece of crap without the Soda Popper or Fan O'War, but if anyone can take mini-crits, [b]255 damage in a clip[/b].

For the Sun-on-a-Stick, I'm kinda against the idea of giving non-Pyro classes more chances of igniting enemies.

For the Liberty Launcher, it does fit in well with the Reserve Shooter, plus it'd leave the enemies more vulnerable as they're in the air! But in that case, might I suggest lowering the damage from -25% to -30%?

For the CM5K, for one thing, less clustered stats is good! Another, considering the endless ammunition and the larger clip size, I think lowering the damage from -20% to -25% [b]or[/b] -30% would be good.

For the Gunboats, I would love this, actually, but then that'd be one more reskin we have... :c

I disagree with merging the two Soldier melee weapons. I'm contempt with the Equalizer as it is, it's just the Escape Plan that is the problem.

For the Homewrecker, I'm still bothered by the fact on how situational this weapon is, not to mention that it gets a general downside for this version.

[QUOTE=Dat Lobo;40605618]I'm going to copy some of my suggestions from selbi's thread (seriously don't see why you guys aren't actually posting there, he actually tests out the suggestions...)

Natascha

Natascha A: 20% Slower spin up time.

Natascha B: 20% Reduced damage.

That's it. I feel either of those would make it actually useful again.

The Direct Hit

DH A: On contact, make it have the splash radius of the Loch N' Load landing a shot.

DH B: Increased hitbox, akin to that of the arrow from the Huntsman.[/QUOTE]

For Natascha, I pick Option B. Considering how it pins enemies down with slowdown, they should at least get some sort of surviving chance by taking less damage from the Minigun. If it was Option A, it'd be a death sentence to anyone who comes across it, and even if they get more time to run away, they still have plenty of time to run away from a Minigun.

For the Direct Hit, I'd pick neither. It already has a pretty fast projectile speed...

[QUOTE=Zadrave;40605700][B]The Axtinguisher[/B]
100% critical hit vs burning players
-50% damage vs non-burning players
No critical hits vs non-burning players
-20% slower weapon switch

Bye bye deagreaser + axtinguisher pyros, and it also encourages to use it more tactically.

[B]The Dalokohs Bar
[/B]For 30 seconds when eaten:
Adds +50 max health
Health lost comes back as ammo
-10% damage from ranged sources while active[/QUOTE]

For the Axtinguisher, it already takes a while to switch weapons, it shouldn't have an increased weapon switch time.

For the Dalokohs Bar, as you've told me, the damage taken is returned as ammo. Seems kinda ridiculous; I was hoping it'd be that when the effect runs out, any non-overhealed health above 300 will turn into ammo (up to 50 health) while still removing the +50 max health.

[QUOTE=ElderLolz;40605814]I love how the TF2 team themself stated how they are unsatisfied with the fact that the Pyro is "too easy" to play with, yet they give his weapons such ridiculous stats.
Anyway, my fix:
[B]The Soda Popper[/B]
+25% faster reloading speed
[I]+25% firing speed[/I]
-66% clip size
No random critical hits
Build 'hype' as you run
[I]hype = crit a cola buff[/I]
That would fix it for me, I am tired of people using the Soda Popper because of this cheap Mini-crit buff. Run around in spawn for 10 seconds and there you go.[/QUOTE]

I honestly think that the Soda Popper just use the same Hype mechanic as the Blaster; build more hype as you deal more damage, and unleash mini-crits once you do enough damage. It's [b]actually[/b] rewarding, that way. Of course, the damage requirement would have to be adjusted to be usable.

[QUOTE=TwoYearLurker;40606147][B]Mini-Sentries![/B]
[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/16px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG] Bullets no longer inflict boosted knockback/push force
[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/16px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG] Does not regenerate health while constructing

There, now mini-sentries are a lot less obnoxious to fight against, but not nerfed into oblivion.

First is getting rid of the knockback boost - mini-sentries now deal the same knockback as any other bullet firing weapon in the game, instead of having the crazy high area denial knockback that other sentries have. No more shutting out jumping Soldiers and Demomen!

Second is the removal of health regen while building, which made the sentries unkillable as some classes (i.e. Scout), even if they were deployed [I]right in front of you[/I], until they became active and started shooting. Now Engineers can’t plop a Sentry down directly into an enemy Scout’s face and still win, but they haven't been nerfed too hard, since they still start out with full health.[/QUOTE]

Seems pretty good!

[QUOTE=hawk18727;40606279][B]The Pomson 6000[/B]
Functions identically to the Righteous Bison
[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG]Penetration is back.
[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/16px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG]Damage is identical to the Righteous Bison's one.
[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/16px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG]No ubercharge drain on hit.
[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/16px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG]No cloak drain on hit.[/QUOTE]

Yes, please.

[QUOTE=Nightfury;40609030][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/2tEOO49.png[/IMG]

Reverses 25 upgrade points per second on enemy building construction
-100% Sapper damage penalty

E.G: Spy saps Engie's lvl 3 Sentry for 4 seconds, Engie breaks it and the sentry is now lvl 2 with 100 upgrade points.[/QUOTE]

Would also like this.

So there ya go.