The "Weapon Fixing Megathread" - We fix weapons' stats and get in fights - Games

Actually thinking a bit more about it, it's buffs are fine, just the explosive weakness is a bit of stupid stat, like the Bushwacka's fire weakness. I had some thoughts on reskins too. All promo weapons are given something unique like playing a small bit of music from the game that weapon was a promotional of, unique deaths killfeed messages and so on. All craftable/promo only weapon reskins are added to the drop list, this allows people to get the "rare" craft only weapons without having to craft the same weapon multiple times in a row just to get a reskin.

I really wouldn't mind it if the Shield were given +30 health instead of the buffs and debuffs, or just to say bugger all to preventing the user from being quickscoped and give it a Mantreads-esque reduction in being thrown about to make it worthwhile with all the Sniper's primaries.

[QUOTE=Bynine;41521182]I really wouldn't mind it if the Shield were given +30 health instead of the buffs and debuffs, or just to say bugger all to preventing the user from being quickscoped and give it a Mantreads-esque reduction in being thrown about to make it worthwhile with all the Sniper's primaries.[/QUOTE] This would also keep Sniper VS Sniper intact for the biggest part. A good non-DDS Sniper VS a noob-DDS sniper would still be won by the person with more skill. Unless the noob gets lucky and HS's the good sniper right after its quickshot (which has never happened to me, by any knowledge.)

[QUOTE=AbeX300]And maybe also retweaking the jump-boost mechanic for the Winger, assuming we want to stick with that mechanic and leave the damage and clip size differences alone. Instead of a measly +25% jump height on the first jump while active, have it affect on all additional jumps, and either make it a passive ability, or leave it as an active attribute but raising the number to +40%. I decided to use the 2Fort's bridge's roof for this, and at +40%, you are able to go from the ground to the roof by crouch double-jumping. [t]http://i.imgur.com/tJlvmx0.jpg[/t] [b]Note:[/b] I used sv_gravity to try to test this, and the thing is, sv_gravity 600 is [b]slightly[/b] lower than the Winger's +25% jump height. So in theory, +40% might [b]barely[/b] allow you to double-jump up there without needing to crouch.[/QUOTE] Just tellin' - I've been able to get on the bridge from the house's entrance. It's a tad bit elevated, but it apparently was enough. I have to test the winger on more maps and see whether there are many jumps that be done with it.

Give the bullet resistance to the Sleeper when active, maybe? In any case, I pretty much just use the Danger Shield with the Huntsman, and this surely has made frontline arrowing better. Otherwise I won't be dropping Jarate for anything.

[QUOTE=Eriorguez;41529317]Give the bullet resistance to the Sleeper when active, maybe? In any case, I pretty much just use the Danger Shield with the Huntsman, and this surely has made frontline arrowing better. Otherwise I won't be dropping Jarate for anything.[/QUOTE] And that's the point really - even though it is part of a "set", it has its uses outside of this set.

[QUOTE=DatWut?;41529709]And that's the point really - even though it is part of a "set", it has its uses outside of this set.[/QUOTE] And then you have the Sleeper which has almost zero use outside of the set because you put yourself at the mercy of enemy snipers. 25 extra health is helpful outside of the set regardless if the Danger Shield did anything passive or not, it's a flat health bonus.

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;41529902]And then you have the Sleeper which has almost zero use outside of the set because you put yourself at the mercy of enemy snipers.[/QUOTE] But the Sleeper isn't for dealing with enemy Snipers, its for team support, a long range debuffer, using the Jarate to help your team take out threats easier. I just wished it'd splash a bit so you can Jarate multiple people, it'd be a good medic pair debuff.

[QUOTE=Shadoxa;41530168]But the Sleeper isn't for dealing with enemy Snipers, its for team support, a long range debuffer, using the Jarate to help your team take out threats easier. I just wished it'd splash a bit so you can Jarate multiple people, it'd be a good medic pair debuff.[/QUOTE] This is where the Sleeper's design comes into question. What exactly does Valve consider to be the core of this weapon? The thing about the weapon that will stay the same even if they buff or nerf the shit out of it. Cores can be reworked, but they won't abandon cores as to not alienate players who purchased these items for the cores. It is my belief that the core of the Sleeper is: Jarate on-hit. With this understood, the Sleeper can be rebalanced around this core in order to make it capable of being something more than just a bodyshotting weapon. Something that increases depth and raises the skill ceiling as a result of all the options available to the Sniper due to this depth. Here's how I would restructure the Sleeper: +25% charge rate -15% damage On Crit: Target will be splashed with Jarate. On Hit: Jarate applied to target for 8 seconds. What does this do? Well for one, it gives the Sniper the ability to effectively hit a group of players from afar with a big splash of Jarate. This further emphasizes the weapon's capabilities of long-range team-assistance, but the lowered damage hinders his lone-wolf assassinations, as he'll be incapable of killing anyone other than light classes with a fully-charged bodyshot or a quickscope headshot, he'll also be unable to kill off overhealed heavies in a single shot. To boot, this will open up synergies with his SMG secondaries, as a quickscope headshot will make his victim easy pickings if they survived it. Since it's an on-crit ability, it will synergize with the Cleaner's Carbine effectively, allowing the Sniper to have a chain of noscope+SMG kills if he has a supply of enemies who are willing to let him take potshots at them.

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;41520915]No item should be explicitly designed to be utilized in a set. Otherwise we get shit like the Cladflksfdjlsdkfjdf Mor which is only useful with shields.[/QUOTE] See, I disagree with this. Partially, at least. I think that set weapons should at least have minor synergy with one another (i.e. a rocket launcher with increased blast force + a secondary that minicrits on airshots), but can still easily be used in conjunction with other weapons (the market gardener, for instance). I think that's where Valve failed in the removal of sets - they essentially destroyed what little synergy some of the sets had to begin with.

[QUOTE=Unisath;41530310]See, I disagree with this. Partially, at least. I think that set weapons should at least have minor synergy with one another (i.e. a rocket launcher with increased blast force + a secondary that minicrits on airshots), but can still easily be used in conjunction with other weapons (the market gardener, for instance). I think that's where Valve failed in the removal of sets - they essentially destroyed what little synergy some of the sets had to begin with.[/QUOTE] Having synergy and being explicitly designed to be used together are not one in the same. If the Liberty Launcher had 40% greater push force instead of rocket speed, it would very easily synergize with the Reserve Shooter and Market Gardener without intruding on the item's capability of being a standalone. The Claymore, on the other hand, is only really useful if it has a shield to utilize its longer charge. The Sleeper, in its current state, puts the Sniper at the mercy of other Snipers unless he is using the Danger Shield so he can have a leg up on them. The Flying Guillotine is a good example of an item that was explicitly coded to have synergy with another item, the Sandman, yet it is a completely fine standalone weapon. When it comes to designing, weapons should function fine as standalone first; synergy second.

I think Claymore should get extra melee range, so it would be useful even without a shield.

[QUOTE=C4rnage;41531416]I think Claymore should get extra melee range, so it would be useful even without a shield.[/QUOTE] It does have extra range, it just doesn't say it. I use the Clahoodily Mor sometimes over the Bottle for that exact reason, even without a shield.

[QUOTE=GastricTank;41531427]It does have extra range, it just doesn't say it. I use the Clahoodily Mor sometimes over the Bottle for that exact reason, even without a shield.[/QUOTE] i mean more than the 37%

[QUOTE=GastricTank;41531427]It does have extra range, it just doesn't say it. I use the Clahoodily Mor sometimes over the Bottle for that exact reason, even without a shield.[/QUOTE] If there's one thing I'd want the Claymore to do is to have the Charge bonus apply not only when using shields. The only realistic way to do so is to have the sticky launchers charge faster when you're charging for long-range shots. Bam, it becomes a dual-purpose utility.

I wouldn't mind the Claymore having one of the Persian Persuader's bonuses, or perhaps restoring some charge on-kill. Of course, that Sticky Launcher charge bonus is a pretty cute idea, too, and it would be nice to have a sword that combos with demolition.

Could give a charge increase for shields/launcher based on heads taken. Cap it somewhere in the ball-park of the Persian Persuaders recharge for shields, like +90%. Possibe increase in number of heads to take to reach cap.

[QUOTE=yellowoboe;41531685]Could give a charge increase for shields/launcher based on heads taken. Cap it somewhere in the ball-park of the Persian Persuaders recharge for shields, like +90%.[/QUOTE] On Kill: 66% of charge restored?

[QUOTE=C4rnage;41531466]i mean more than the 37%[/QUOTE] An approximately 9% decrease in health with the lack of occasional random crits, for a 37% extended melee range and an extra benefit for the shield if you equip it. The Claid is fine as is.

The Sleeper is fine without headshots. That's the core of the weapon, faster full charge AND quite fast crippling at the cost of headshots. Have the headshots not do extra damage, but apply AoE Jarate would be a neat buff though. But pulling a 150 + Jarate on a lone soldier, then finishing him off with 5 SMG bullets (gotta love the lack of falloff of minicrits) is awesome and nobody expects it.

I personally hold that the skullcutter would be far more usable if it's attributes only applied when the weapon was drawn.

[QUOTE=WilhelmScreamer;41531751]I personally hold that the skullcutter would be far more usable if it's attributes only applied when the weapon was drawn.[/QUOTE] The Skullcutter can two-hit Medics and can potentially crit for an instant-kill on a normal Soldier, it'd seem ridiculous to be able to outrun a Soldier just by running, bringing out your Skullcutter, and either three-hitting him or critting him to death, countering the movespeed penalty. He'd have to rely on either ambushing, using explosive jumps to go in for the kill, or even using a shield to get that nice mini-crit or crit in. So it shouldn't be an active thing, only.

[QUOTE=WilhelmScreamer;41531751]I personally hold that the skullcutter would be far more usable if it's attributes only applied when the weapon was drawn.[/QUOTE] It might be more usable. But much more bullshit. Imagine how heavy the thing is. You have it with you all the time, so why would it slow you down only as you take it out?

claymore buff idea: [b]+2 max sticky bombs out[/b] +longer charge duration +eyelander range -15 health

[QUOTE=kibbleknight;41532282]claymore buff idea: [b]+2 max sticky bombs out[/b] +longer charge duration +eyelander range -15 health[/QUOTE] Actually, maybe raise it to be +3 and it'll be a good weapon, along with that removal of the no random crits.

[QUOTE=DatWut?;41532203]It might be more usable. But much more bullshit. Imagine how heavy the thing is. You have it with you all the time, so why would it slow you down only as you take it out?[/QUOTE] Let's not bring logic into a game where you can put a minigun and two enormous steel gloves into the hammerspace of your butt without impacting your movespeed.

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;41531467]If there's one thing I'd want the Claymore to do is to have the Charge bonus apply not only when using shields. The only realistic way to do so is to have the sticky launchers charge faster when you're charging for long-range shots. Bam, it becomes a dual-purpose utility.[/QUOTE] And then suddenly the Scottish Resistance is the go to Sticky Launcher.

[QUOTE=AbeX300;41532347]Actually, maybe raise it to be +3 and it'll be a good weapon, along with that removal of the no random crits.[/QUOTE] Why give that to a shield oriented melee ? [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/0/0f/Item_icon_Claidheamh_M%C3%B2r.png/100px-Item_icon_Claidheamh_M%C3%B2r.png?t=20120630232048[/IMG] [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png?t=20110419094531[/IMG]Has 37% longer melee range. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png?t=20110419094531[/IMG]Charge duration is increased by 0.5 second. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png?t=20110419094531[/IMG]75% Less knockback while charging. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png?t=20110419094531[/IMG]Up to 65% charge meter on melee kill. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png?t=20110419092839[/IMG]Decreases max health by 15. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png?t=20110419092839[/IMG]No random Critical hits.

[QUOTE=ScarfaceCrow;41533053]Why give that to a shield oriented melee ? [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/0/0f/Item_icon_Claidheamh_M%C3%B2r.png/100px-Item_icon_Claidheamh_M%C3%B2r.png?t=20120630232048[/IMG] [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png?t=20110419094531[/IMG]Has 37% longer melee range. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png?t=20110419094531[/IMG]Charge duration is increased by 0.5 second. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png?t=20110419094531[/IMG]75% Less knockback while charging. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png?t=20110419094531[/IMG]Up to 65% charge meter on melee kill. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png?t=20110419092839[/IMG]Decreases max health by 15. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png?t=20110419092839[/IMG]No random Critical hits.[/QUOTE] SO that it has use outside of being a shield only melee. Shields and stickies take up the same space, I don't see any reason why the buffs shouldn't apply to both items.

[QUOTE=ScarfaceCrow;41533053]Why give that to a shield oriented melee ? [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/0/0f/Item_icon_Claidheamh_M%C3%B2r.png/100px-Item_icon_Claidheamh_M%C3%B2r.png?t=20120630232048[/IMG] [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png?t=20110419094531[/IMG]Has 37% longer melee range. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png?t=20110419094531[/IMG]Charge duration is increased by 0.5 second. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png?t=20110419094531[/IMG]75% Less knockback while charging. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png?t=20110419094531[/IMG]Up to 65% charge meter on melee kill. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png?t=20110419092839[/IMG]Decreases max health by 15. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png?t=20110419092839[/IMG]No random Critical hits.[/QUOTE] The point is people want to make the Claidheamh Mòr a weapon that can work well when NOT used with a shield.