The "Weapon Fixing Megathread" - We fix weapons' stats and get in fights - Games

I feel that the Amputator doesn't have enough utility as of now. So, why not make the original item set bonus have some use? [t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/b/b6/Backpack_Amputator.png?t=20110424220441[/t] [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png?t=20110419094531[/img] On Taunt: Applies a healing effect to all nearby teammates [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png?t=20110419094531[/img] +1 health regenerated per second So it gives extra survivability for both you and your teammates!

[QUOTE=AbeX300;41533241]I feel that the Amputator doesn't have enough utility as of now. So, why not make the original item set bonus have some use? [t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/b/b6/Backpack_Amputator.png?t=20110424220441[/t] [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png?t=20110419094531[/img] On Taunt: Applies a healing effect to all nearby teammates [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png?t=20110419094531[/img] +1 health regenerated per second So it gives extra survivability for both you and your teammates![/QUOTE] Because a direct upgrade doesn't need to be buffed.

[QUOTE=Giggle;41533300]Because a direct upgrade doesn't need to be buffed.[/QUOTE] But unlike item sets, at least Amputators are able to be droppable for even F2Pers, and there are a [b]lot[/b] of Amputators so they have a better chance of getting a donation from actual players, and other melee weapons have benefits over the Amputator. A bit too much, so it should be a side-grade with the other unlockables. Plus, the TF Team doesn't want to change the stock melee weapons, so instead, (I assume) they decided to make an alternative weapon for people who play for a bit while, and I can respect their opinions.

[QUOTE=AbeX300;41533241]I feel that the Amputator doesn't have enough utility as of now. So, why not make the original item set bonus have some use? [t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/b/b6/Backpack_Amputator.png?t=20110424220441[/t] [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png?t=20110419094531[/img] On Taunt: Applies a healing effect to all nearby teammates [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png?t=20110419094531[/img] +1 health regenerated per second So it gives extra survivability for both you and your teammates![/QUOTE] I want to see the Amputator buffed, mostly because I have a Strange one with 20 kills and now I can't really justify using it anymore, but I'm very against the idea of changing it while leaving it a straight upgrade. Re-adding the health regen to the weapon is a good idea, IMO, but it should be given some small nerf as well in the process. It would arguably remain balanced compared to itself pre-summer update, as 'retains health regen while used with other primaries' would be a hidden upside to compensate that nerf. And I realize now that I'm basically just describing [URL="http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1269839&p=41428556&viewfull=1#post41428556"]a suggestion[/URL] I posted a couple pages back. oh well.

[QUOTE=Deodorant;41533595]I want to see the Amputator buffed, mostly because I have a Strange one with 20 kills and now I can't really justify using it anymore, but I'm very against the idea of changing it while leaving it a straight upgrade. Re-adding the health regen to the weapon is a good idea, IMO, but it should be given some small nerf as well in the process. It would arguably remain balanced compared to itself pre-summer update, as 'retains health regen while used with other primaries' would be a hidden upside to compensate that nerf. And I realize now that I'm basically just describing [URL="http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1269839&p=41428556&viewfull=1#post41428556"]a suggestion[/URL] I posted a couple pages back. oh well.[/QUOTE] It shouldn't need a nerf, it should be rewarding players by playing the game long enough to get it, whether it be by drop, gift, trading, or such.

[QUOTE=AbeX300;41533615]It shouldn't need a nerf, it should be rewarding players by playing the game long enough to get it, whether it be by drop, gift, trading, or such.[/QUOTE] By that logic, because I've played for two years I should have a weapon that lets me dominate anybody whose played less than me. You can't just go "this doesnt need a nerf" when it's automatically better than the one you start with. That's unfair to new players. [editline]20th July 2013[/editline] As it stands, it doesn't need it nerf since the effect is something that forces you to stand still and be vulnerable, and is far outclassed by your medigun. If they add any new effects to it, such as the healing bonus from the set, it needs a downside. If anything, they need to buff the Bonesaw with something that puts it on par with other Medic melees. Perhaps give it the Amputator's stats and reconfigure the Amputator to something new.

[QUOTE=Mentlegen;41534190]By that logic, because I've played for two years I should have a weapon that lets me dominate anybody whose played less than me. You can't just go "this doesnt need a nerf" when it's automatically better than the one you start with.[/QUOTE] But the difference is barely better than the stock weapon, anyway, and it'd only have like a small chance of being better in a situation than the stock, and it only works on taunting which makes the upside even less damn useful than the stock. The +1 health regen also barely helps, so there isn't much of a difference between the Bonesaw and the Amputator, even if the Amputator is ever so slightly better.

[QUOTE=AbeX300;41534232]But the difference is barely better than the stock weapon, anyway, and it'd only have like a small chance of being better in a situation than the stock, and it only works on taunting which makes the upside even less damn useful than the stock. The +1 health regen also barely helps, so there isn't much of a difference between the Bonesaw and the Amputator, even if the Amputator is ever so slightly better.[/QUOTE] Every single dot of HP counts in the end, and honestly, if you're going to try and buff something ment to keep you alive, I'd suggest a nerf for it to do less damage in return, so that way it isnt a dependable weapon, but a good support.

[QUOTE=Giggle;41534296]Every single dot of HP counts in the end, and honestly, if you're going to try and buff something ment to keep you alive, I'd suggest a nerf for it to do less damage in return, so that way it isnt a dependable weapon, but a good support.[/QUOTE] Alright, then I guess we'll leave it as is. Just the healing taunt.

I will be honest with you" i'm totally fine with the Claid's "Provides benefits only with shields" gimmick, but as long as the bonus is actually useful. The way i see it: even the prolongage of the charge time may actually save the weapon( the current increase is arguably barely noticeable ). Some funky bonus, such as -x time taken for a crit melee hit, may make it a viable choice altogether.

honestly i think the crusader set be re-worked slightly. [b]The Crusader's Crossbow[/b] + 40% faster reload time. + Fires special bolts that heal teammates and deal damage based on distance traveled. [b]+1 health gained per second[/b] [b]+Allows you to maintain uber-charge status when switching weapons[/b] [b]-15% faster uber-charge drain speed when secondary isn't active[/b] - No headshots. - 75% Max ammo on wearer [b]The Amputator[/b] +On taunt: Applies a healing effect to all nearby teammates [b]+On taunt under uber-charge effects: Applies current secondary's charge to all nearby teammates[/b] [b]-20% slower firing rate[/b] [b]-No random critical hits[/b]

I think the Pain Train should get a thing so that it helps on CTF. +15% speed bonus while holding the intel sounds dandy

[QUOTE=kibbleknight;41534803]honestly i think the crusader set be re-worked slightly. [b]The Crusader's Crossbow[/b] + 40% faster reload time. + Fires special bolts that heal teammates and deal damage based on distance traveled. [b]+1 health gained per second[/b] [b]+Allows you to maintain uber-charge status when switching weapons[/b] [b]-15% faster uber-charge drain speed when secondary isn't active[/b] - No headshots. - 75% Max ammo on wearer [b]The Amputator[/b] +On taunt: Applies a healing effect to all nearby teammates [b]+On taunt under uber-charge effects: Applies current secondary's charge to all nearby teammates[/b] [b]-20% slower firing rate[/b] [b]-No random critical hits[/b][/QUOTE] Good god, you could literally mow down anything if you used any medigun that isnt the quick fix and the amputator.

[QUOTE=kibbleknight;41534803]honestly i think the crusader set be re-worked slightly. [b]+On taunt under uber-charge effects: Applies current secondary's charge to all nearby teammates[/b] [/QUOTE] That is huge, you'd need a massive passive debuff to balance that out

3-4 seconds of criticals or uber isn't really that big of a thing, seriously. in Halloween mode you got, uber, crits, and a speed boost for running and doing a small amount of platforming.

[QUOTE=Eriorguez;41531733]The Sleeper is fine without headshots. That's the core of the weapon, faster full charge AND quite fast crippling at the cost of headshots. Have the headshots not do extra damage, but apply AoE Jarate would be a neat buff though. But pulling a 150 + Jarate on a lone soldier, then finishing him off with 5 SMG bullets (gotta love the lack of falloff of minicrits) is awesome and nobody expects it.[/QUOTE] First off, the Sleeper's core was never "faster charging." On-launch, it had normal charge rate, Jarate on-hit, and no headshots. But having a core weapon based around "no-headshots" severely limits its capabilities to have depth beyond what it is like now; offering some sort of skill-indexed incentive to utilize it's other core ability is far better of a design decision. Depth promotes smart play and smart counterplay; removing depth just makes the game 2-dimensional. You need to read the rest of my post in full; I gave the item a damage penalty. A quickscope or fullycharged bodyshot would do 127 damage, making it impossible to instantly kill almost all classes except for the light ones, and 3 of those 4 classes have items that passively buff their health to a point of being able to survive that anyway. If you think you can take a soldier by yourself with just the SMG after popping 127 damage into him you're reckless. I did thorough thinking when I composed my post concerning the weapon's core, the least you could do is read it attentively.

[QUOTE=kibbleknight;41536394]3-4 seconds of criticals or uber isn't really that big of a thing, seriously. in Halloween mode you got, uber, crits, and a speed boost for running and doing a small amount of platforming.[/QUOTE] The Halloween events should never be taken into account when talking about balance. Also, with this talk about the Sleeper, this is a game where generally, individual player skill is downplayed compared to teamwork and strategy. Not everything should be a skill based weapon, some should remain as ones that need less skill but open new strategies in some way.

[QUOTE=kibbleknight;41534803]honestly i think the crusader set be re-worked slightly. [b]The Crusader's Crossbow[/b] + 40% faster reload time. + Fires special bolts that heal teammates and deal damage based on distance traveled. [b]+1 health gained per second[/b] [b]+Allows you to maintain uber-charge status when switching weapons[/b] [b]-15% faster uber-charge drain speed when secondary isn't active[/b] - No headshots. - 75% Max ammo on wearer [b]The Amputator[/b] +On taunt: Applies a healing effect to all nearby teammates [b]+On taunt under uber-charge effects: Applies current secondary's charge to all nearby teammates[/b] [b]-20% slower firing rate[/b] [b]-No random critical hits[/b][/QUOTE] I can imagine a Medic popping an Uber and laughing at a sentry nest while the soldiers and demos are unaffected by all damage.

Make the Amputator mark the Medic for death on taunt, and have it linger for 2 or so seconds after said taunt is over.

As if being unable to move is bad enough, make him die quicker too!

So what, exactly, is wrong about giving it both a buff and a nerf? Currently it's a straight upgrade - which is bad because it poops on the idea of sidegrade unlocks - but the upside it does have is so negligible that there's practically no reason to use it over other unlocks. Giving it both an up- and a downside would make it a utility item; one that can either be better or worse to use than other Medic melees depending on how well your playstyle is suited to it.

As I see it, the amputator is a sidegrade for the taunt rather than a weapon sidegrade. Usually you would taunt after killing some bozo showing that you are proud you have the ability to kill people as the medic, but with the amputator you'd taunt to heal multiple people at the same time, leaving you open to any enemies that have the competence to focus one single person out. So imo, the amputator is just a different mechanic for the taunt, and doesn't really need to be nerfed. [sp]If it were to get a nerf, I would suggest myself a -% damage penalty since it's based around healing rather than damage[/sp]

[QUOTE=OzzyCockroach;41540211]As I see it, the amputator is a sidegrade for the taunt rather than a weapon sidegrade. Usually you would taunt after killing some bozo showing that you are proud you have the ability to kill people as the medic, but with the amputator you'd taunt to heal multiple people at the same time, leaving you open to any enemies that have the competence to focus one single person out. So imo, the amputator is just a different mechanic for the taunt, and doesn't really need to be nerfed. [sp]If it were to get a nerf, I would suggest myself a -% damage penalty since it's based around healing rather than damage[/sp][/QUOTE] That's a bad way to think about it. It's a straight buff whether you think so or not solely because you have the OPTION to do it. You don't have to use it if you don't want to, but the choice is always there, unlike the taunt with the Bonesaw. Being open to attack while taunting doesn't merit for a good argument because once again, you don't have to use it. Imagine if the Cow Mangler's stats were identical to the Rocket Launcher, except that it still had the option to do the charge attack. People would always use the Cow Mangler in that hypothetical situation because it's the Rocket Launcher, and then some.

[QUOTE=OzzyCockroach;41540102]As if being unable to move is bad enough, make him die quicker too![/QUOTE] You act like the medic will only have this saw to run around with, and he WONT only use it when he's got his uber.

[QUOTE=GastricTank;41540883]That's a bad way to think about it. It's a straight buff whether you think so or not solely because you have the OPTION to do it. You don't have to use it if you don't want to, but the choice is always there, unlike the taunt with the Bonesaw. Being open to attack while taunting doesn't merit for a good argument because once again, you don't have to use it. Imagine if the Cow Mangler's stats were identical to the Rocket Launcher, except that it still had the option to do the charge attack. People would always use the Cow Mangler in that hypothetical situation because it's the Rocket Launcher, and then some.[/QUOTE] So the Rainblower is a straight upgrade then due to its taunt kill, or is Pyroland a viable downside then?

[QUOTE=Giggle;41541128]You act like the medic will only have this saw to run around with, and he WONT only use it when he's got his uber.[/QUOTE] When did I say that? I was pointing out that when the medic taunts for the amputator's effects, he is completely still, so you shouldn't need to deal minicrits to kill him.

[QUOTE=Eriorguez;41541140]So the Rainblower is a straight upgrade then due to its taunt kill, or is Pyroland a viable downside then?[/QUOTE] I want to say no because of how pyrovision can get after a while, I guess its like [generic metaphor go] only being able to watch your favorite show on a TV that is gray scale, while you can watch a show you don't like quite as much on a full color TV. Sure its interesting to see the world that way, but after a while you kinda get sick on it and will return to the full color glory.

Then, what'd be wrong with the marked for death on taunt? You'd have a neat if situational upside, but using it will put you at even more risk that if you taunted with the vanilla. I don't see how any downside for that has to be a "-x% Y". No, just rework the upside. Just like the Solemn Vow could work by making enemies able to see your health, or the Third Degree transfer damage to medics healing you if you have it out (this one maybe not, too much griefing potential, but something along those lines would be neat).

[QUOTE=OzzyCockroach;41541216]When did I say that? I was pointing out that when the medic taunts for the amputator's effects, he is completely still, so you shouldn't need to deal minicrits to kill him.[/QUOTE] A good medic- [I]oh[/I] Anyways, a sensible medic will only run around with the thing to deploy their ubercharge, most of the time defeating the purpose of minicrits at all, vaccinator and default uber for example. Plus, this totem of pure power needs to get dropped easily before it destroys your entire team with kritz, or attatches itself to the bomb cart like a leech and disperses resistance to everything as it slowly moves along the rails.

Are you talking about Kibble's suggestion of applying the uber effects to the taunt? Because I'm not. Implying a medic always has their ubercharge ready for deploy, granted yes, the vaccinator would be the acception, but he only gets the resistances when he is healing somebody, so while he is taunting , he's completely vulnerable because uber/kritz would deactivate upon switching weapons anyway.