The "Weapon Fixing Megathread" - We fix weapons' stats and get in fights - Games

[QUOTE=OzzyCockroach;41541310]Are you talking about Kibble's suggestion of applying the uber effects to the taunt? Because I'm not. Implying a medic always has their ubercharge ready for deploy, granted yes, the vaccinator would be the acception, but he only gets the resistances when he is healing somebody, so while he is taunting , he's completely vulnerable because uber/kritz would deactivate upon switching weapons anyway.[/QUOTE] That was the topic, but I guess it makes sense why you were really defending this one sided argument (as it would seem). But still, direct upgrades are direct upgrades, the amputator probably could be reworked around its only feature, as a utility instead of a weapon, same can go for the third degree, as a medic hunter.

Glad we could make an understanding, I thought kibble's rework idea was a bit over the top, I was just making a comment on Eriorguez's idea to mark for death, and how it would be silly for you to be able to minicrit an already non-moving target, not realizing he was adding on to kibble's idea. [QUOTE=OzzyCockroach;41541434]it would be silly for you to be able to minicrit an already non-moving target[/QUOTE] [t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/5/5a/Item_icon_Flying_Guillotine.png/100px-Item_icon_Flying_Guillotine.png?t=20120901170343[/t] [t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/7/70/Item_icon_Sandman.png/100px-Item_icon_Sandman.png?t=20120630234727[/t]

[QUOTE=Eriorguez;41541140]So the Rainblower is a straight upgrade then due to its taunt kill, or is Pyroland a viable downside then?[/QUOTE] Effectively, yes. A VERY situational bonus, but still, it's there. If you don't mind Pyroland that is; I don't. Pyroland isn't really a downside, it's more of a... for-fun thing. Like the FISH HIT/KILL on the Mackerel compared to the default Bat. Even then, Pyroland only works on certain maps.

[QUOTE=GastricTank;41541460] Even then, Pyroland only works on certain maps.[/QUOTE] Unless you have a script that adds pyroland on all the offical maps

As there seems to be some controversy over my ideas for changes, perhaps i can shed some light: [QUOTE=kibbleknight;41534803][b]The Crusader's Crossbow[/b] + 40% faster reload time. + Fires special bolts that heal teammates and deal damage based on distance traveled. [b]+1 health gained per second[/b] [b]+Allows you to maintain uber-charge status when switching weapons[/b] [b]-15% faster uber-charge drain speed when secondary isn't active[/b] - No headshots. - 75% Max ammo on wearer[/QUOTE] Much like the original ubersaw where people would uber themselves and run melee, this would potentially be a run and attack someone who body-blocks your from escaping. Accompanied with the faster drain speed, it would be impossible to stay ubered forever unlike the original. Combined with my amputator suggestion it would allow you to stay invulnerable for the taunt's duration provided you had the default medigun, however since you would have the melee active for this and not your secondary your uber would drain [b]FASTER[/b] reducing the potential 3-4 seconds of taunting for the area effect to 1-2. [QUOTE=kibbleknight;41534803][b]The Amputator[/b] +On taunt: Applies a healing effect to all nearby teammates [b]+On taunt under uber-charge effects: Applies current secondary's charge to all nearby teammates[/b] [b]-20% slower firing rate[/b] [b]-No random critical hits[/b][/QUOTE] While this seems like it may be incredibly overpowered, without also having my crossbow equipped you would be unaffected by your uber yourself, meaning completely vulnerable and stationary for the 3-4 seconds of the amputator's taunt. Dispersing Kritz, Uber, Bullet/Fire/Explosive resistance, or mega healing for about 3-4 seconds. That long enough to probably get off about 2-3 shots as a soldier, as well as the fact that if you die during the taunt its effect are cancelled.

[QUOTE=Eriorguez;41541247]Then, what'd be wrong with the marked for death on taunt? You'd have a neat if situational upside, but using it will put you at even more risk that if you taunted with the vanilla. I don't see how any downside for that has to be a "-x% Y". No, just rework the upside. Just like the Solemn Vow could work by making enemies able to see your health, or the Third Degree transfer damage to medics healing you if you have it out (this one maybe not, too much griefing potential, but something along those lines would be neat).[/QUOTE] Are you talking about adding MfD to the current Amputator or Kibble's suggestion? Because if it's the former, the only flaw with that idea is that the Amputator would still be woefully underpowered compared to the Übersaw.

For the Amputator that kibbleknight suggested, why not just "you take more knockback while taunting" ? You don't take any extra damage or whatever, you can just be pushed away a bit easier

[QUOTE=Deodorant;41541853]Are you talking about adding MfD to the current Amputator or Kibble's suggestion? Because if it's the former, the only flaw with that idea is that the Amputator would still be woefully underpowered compared to the Übersaw.[/QUOTE] The current one, of course. And the Ubersaw's drawback remains making medics try to melee everything on sight and die horribly.

By the way, back when I was disagreeing on good things and agreeing with the ridiculous ideas, as well as suggesting a buff for the Amputator, that was just me being ridiculous. Obviously a buff to a straight upgrade to a weapon is a bad idea, but here's the thing: the TF Team has a (5e-15829843094)% chance of even paying attention to balance changes, and if a suggestion [b]does[/b] get added, it was most likely by coincidence (I'm looking at you, PSIGuy (with the Loose Cannon stats idea) and DatWut (for the Winger buff)). Also, I was representing what I think the general community finds balance to be: Sure, buffing an already-straight-upgrade weapon is already such an idiotic idea, but there are people that [b]love[/b] the idea, apparently. There's literally almost [b]no[/b] point in having this thread if the TF Team isn't going do that much of a remarkable change at all, so well-detailed or awesome changes like the Charge on Kill for the Claid or giving it a faster charge rate for the Stickybomb Launchers are just as noticeable by the TF Team as giving the Sydney Sleeper an Area-of-Effect Jarate: None. I mean no offense to any of the people above that I mention or hinted at. Or maybe I'm just going insane. Who knows. [b]Edit:[/b] Apparently the SUP and SUB bbcodes are broken.

[QUOTE=AbeX300;41544205]By the way, back when I was disagreeing on good things and agreeing with the ridiculous ideas, as well as suggesting a buff for the Amputator, that was just me being ridiculous. Obviously a buff to a straight upgrade to a weapon is a bad idea, but here's the thing: the TF Team has a (5e-15829843094)% chance of even paying attention to balance changes, and if a suggestion [b]does[/b] get added, it was most likely by coincidence (I'm looking at you, PSIGuy (with the Loose Cannon stats idea) and DatWut (for the Winger buff)). Also, I was representing what I think the general community finds balance to be: Sure, buffing an already-straight-upgrade weapon is already such an idiotic idea, but there are people that [b]love[/b] the idea, apparently. There's literally almost [b]no[/b] point in having this thread if the TF Team isn't going do that much of a remarkable change at all, so well-detailed or awesome changes like the Charge on Kill for the Claid or giving it a faster charge rate for the Stickybomb Launchers are just as noticeable by the TF Team as giving the Sydney Sleeper an Area-of-Effect Jarate: None. [sup]I mean no offense to any of the people above that I mention or hinted at.[/sup] Or maybe I'm just going insane. Who knows.[/QUOTE] It's the latter. :v:

Little list of little buffs/nerfs: Short Circuit - Gain metal from destroyed projectiles Diamondback - Also gain crits from backstabs (and robots sapped)/ or /Increased damage to buildings. Third Degree - Minicrit medic pairs, but gain far less healing from allied medics. Amputator - Less damage, more self-healing Pain Train - Boosted speed with intel\Australium Reserve Shooter - ~no random crits solution to everything~

I think the Short Circuit should use a Cow Mangler/Bison/Pomson system where the weapon has X charges, and after using them you have to reload it. Then make it turn projectiles into ammo and metal.

I'll put it here too. [QUOTE][B]Tomislav[/B] +40% windup speed No barrel spin sound +20% move speed while deployed [I]-25% bullets per shot[/I][/QUOTE] This will make Heavy more mobile and less deadly at any range except close combat.

[QUOTE=Giggle;41548381]Reserve Shooter - ~no random crits solution to everything~[/QUOTE] I think the problem is right now the Reserve Shooter often isn't fast enough for Soldier, and synergizes far too well with the Degreaser also on the topic of the Tomislav, perhaps something like this? +10% faster spin up time +50% faster spin down time Silent Killer: No barrel spin sound -20% slower firing speed

[b]Reserve Shooter[/b] -all its stats its has now- [b]-Weapon Switch Bonus does not stack with existing bonuses[/b] [b]Tomislav[/b] -all its stats it has now- [b]+No Movement Speed Penalty when deployed[/b]

*snip*

[QUOTE=kibbleknight;41557327][b]Reserve Shooter[/b] -all its stats its has now- [b]-Weapon Switch Bonus does not stack with existing bonuses[/b] [b]Tomislav[/b] -all its stats it has now- [b]+No Movement Speed Penalty when deployed[/b][/QUOTE] If there is no movement penalty then you could have a Heavy with practically no spin up time since he could just have his minigun revved up with no penalty. And the 15% switch speed is not why people don't like the Reserve Shooter on Pyro.

The stats that I sugested about the Claidheamh Mòr, it's because that the core feature of the weapon is to be in synergy with shields, and not stikie launchers, like for example, liberty launcher was reworked with the +40% projectile speed, it's the weapon core feature, but now you have 4 rockets that worth the old 3, reducing the amount of burst damage that the weapon can create, but if you guys would like a sword for demo that have sinergy with explosives, how about a set of new ones ? The choke point hell + One sticky bomb out per head colected (4 max bonus). + 2.5 reload speed on explosive weaponry per head (2 max bonus). ! Colect heads from players killed by traps by taunting over they're bodies within 8 seconds after they're deaths. - +10% more self damage from explosives. - +0.2 sticky arm time. - no charge from shields.

[QUOTE=ScarfaceCrow;41562433]The stats that I sugested about the Claidheamh Mòr, it's because that the core feature of the weapon is to be in synergy with shields, and not stikie launchers, like for example, liberty launcher was reworked with the +40% projectile speed, it's the weapon core feature, but now you have 4 rockets that worth the old 3, reducing the amount of burst damage that the weapon can create, but if you guys would like a sword for demo that have sinergy with explosives, how about a set of new ones ? The choke point hell + One sticky bomb out per head colected (4 max bonus). + 2.5 reload speed on explosive weaponry per head (2 max bonus). ! Colect heads from players killed by traps by taunting over they're bodies within 8 seconds after they're deaths. - +10% more self damage from explosives. - +0.2 sticky arm time. - no charge from shields.[/QUOTE] Totally new stats, doesn't fit this thread.

I have an idea for the Diamondback 1 crit shot for sapped Lv. 1 building 2 crit shots for a sapped Lv. 2 building 3 crit shots for a sapped Lv. 3 building "1/2 crit" for a sapped mini sentry (requires 2 sapped mini sentry kills for 1 crit) 15% damage penalty No random crits

[QUOTE=GastricTank;41540883]That's a bad way to think about it. It's a straight buff whether you think so or not solely because you have the OPTION to do it. You don't have to use it if you don't want to, but the choice is always there, unlike the taunt with the Bonesaw. Being open to attack while taunting doesn't merit for a good argument because once again, you don't have to use it. Imagine if the Cow Mangler's stats were identical to the Rocket Launcher, except that it still had the option to do the charge attack. People would always use the Cow Mangler in that hypothetical situation because it's the Rocket Launcher, and then some.[/QUOTE] except it doesn't matter because the game is fine with or without the amputator's buff and please don't compare a useless melee weapon to the rocket launcher, perhaps the best weapon in the game with the most uses and viability

[QUOTE=The Baconator;41572715] and please don't compare a useless melee weapon to the rocket launcher, perhaps the best weapon in the game with the most uses and viability[/QUOTE] but the rocket launcher can't play beethoven by rubbing it with an imaginary bow

[QUOTE=MoopsiePook;41573310]but the rocket launcher can't play beethoven by rubbing it with an imaginary bow[/QUOTE] But you didn't even try to. [QUOTE]I have an idea for the Diamondback 1 crit shot for sapped Lv. 1 building 2 crit shots for a sapped Lv. 2 building 3 crit shots for a sapped Lv. 3 building "1/2 crit" for a sapped mini sentry (requires 2 sapped mini sentry kills for 1 crit) 15% damage penalty No random crits[/QUOTE] I don't want the diamondback to become the second frontier justice, thank you.

[QUOTE=R.M.T.B.;41567915]I have an idea for the Diamondback 1 crit shot for sapped Lv. 1 building 2 crit shots for a sapped Lv. 2 building 3 crit shots for a sapped Lv. 3 building "1/2 crit" for a sapped mini sentry (requires 2 sapped mini sentry kills for 1 crit) 15% damage penalty No random crits[/QUOTE] What if points were awarded by "Damage done with sapper?" That way it'd work in MvM, and offer more reward to sapping high level things. It simply starts filling a bar while your sapper does damage.

But sapper does no damage in MvM, it just stuns. [editline]24th July 2013[/editline] They should go with l'etranger approach, add a completely new stat that helps with sapping. Like throwing sappers, or extra sapper health or such, you get what I mean.

I don't want the diamondback to become the second frontier justice, thank you. That would be... 1 Crit for building destroyed with a teamate assistance. 2 Crits for destroying at your own, only with sapper damage. (I can already see the glitches envolving spies shooting they're sapped buildings with red tape recorders awarding 255 crits :v:)

I don't know why you people want the Claidheadmarf to work better with the Sticky Launcher. It's clearly a sword intended to be used with a shield+ a grenade launcher. And I use it just because of that. It gives me more mobility without requiring me to get melee kills first, since 90% of my kills are pipes anyways. And it also gives me a large melee range while still leaving me with more than 150 health. I'm not saying I wouldn't like a teeny buff, but again, don't try to make it work with something it was clearly not meant to work with.

It's been brought up before. Just give the Diamondback crits for doing Spy things. Backstabbing, sapping, etc. It rewards the Spy for doing what he's supposed to do and doesn't rely on the other team having an Engineer.

[QUOTE=Mentlegen;41592995]It's been brought up before. Just give the Diamondback crits for doing Spy things. Backstabbing, sapping, etc. It rewards the Spy for doing what he's supposed to do and doesn't rely on the other team having an Engineer.[/QUOTE] or, since it's supposed to be an anti-engineer weapon and valve vehemetly refuses to change weapon cores, give the spy crits right away when they're actually fucking useful instead of having to wait for the buildings to break A per-building cooldown could easily fix that being exploitable sap'n'shoot

[QUOTE=Mentlegen;41592995]It's been brought up before. Just give the Diamondback crits for doing Spy things. Backstabbing, sapping, etc. It rewards the Spy for doing what he's supposed to do and doesn't rely on the other team having an Engineer.[/QUOTE] Or mini-crits for an active sapper, but imagine how OP would be that ! Enforcer damage for a short time, oh no the horror. :v: Every time I step into this balancing threads, I always think to myself, imagine if Valve had shipped the medic with the Kritzkrieg as stock medigun, and then, in the goldrush update, they gave us the Medigun, imagine the foruns. OH my god ! IMORTALITY FOR 8 (eight) fucking seconds, just because it builds Uber slower, how I'm suposed to defend my base from an imortal enemy ? and after all the cry, today we would have the folowing stats on Medigun: takes a valve time year to charge, and gives you imortality for a picosecond (0.000 000 000 001 seconds), also can you imagine if the Demo where shipped with the targe as default and sticky where an unlockable ? Did I ever told you the definition, of you know, insanity ?