The "Weapon Fixing Megathread" - We fix weapons' stats and get in fights - Games

[B]Diamondback[/B] +30% accuracy on crouching +20% damage on buildings +10% damage on sapped units -10% damage on humans -10% damage if undisguised

Diamondback: [t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/b/b4/Item_icon_Diamondback.png/100px-Item_icon_Diamondback.png?t=20120630232336[/t] [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png?t=20110419094531[/IMG]Earns crits based off Building Level when destroyed with a Sapper attached (can hold up to 35). [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png?t=20110419092839[/IMG]–15% damage penalty. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png?t=20110419092839[/IMG]No random critical hits.

[QUOTE=Limie Pie;41598536][B]Diamondback[/B] +30% accuracy on crouching [/QUOTE] Stand back for a second, a look at the functions of all other revolvers spy has, in fact, look at any gun that fires bullets in tf2, notice how their accuracy functions.

[QUOTE=Giggle;41598847]Stand back for a second, a look at the functions of all other revolvers spy has, in fact, look at any gun that fires bullets in tf2, notice how their accuracy functions.[/QUOTE] Pretty sure this is how it worked. Every bullet based weapon, most noticeable on single shot weapons such as pistols and revolvers, the bullet always travels down the crosshair perfectly unless you wait like 2.5 to 3 seconds between the next shot or something. Same Thing with shotguns and miniguns I think, one pellet is dead accurate. This is why Ambassador spies can turn into scopeless snipers if they take their time.

[QUOTE]Or mini-crits for an active sapper, but imagine how OP would be that ! Enforcer damage for a short time, oh no the horror.[/QUOTE] I still want the diamondback to function like that, giving mini-crits for the first three seconds or so. Only 4-5 mini-crit shots will be given at 60 damage average(quite not an enforcer damage we are talking about), providing an easier engineer takedown. It's especially useful when the sentry is pybro-guarded. I do fear that this might be used to snipe enemies at a distance... but so can do diamondback's crits. :v:

[QUOTE=Giggle;41598847]Stand back for a second, a look at the functions of all other revolvers spy has, in fact, look at any gun that fires bullets in tf2, notice how their accuracy functions.[/QUOTE] Adding accuracy actually means lowering the bullet spread after the first shot, isn't it? Edited: +20% accuracy on crouching +20% damage against sapped units +10% reload speed 2 seconds of critical boost on destroying enemy building 2 seconds of critical boost on destroying sapped units with this weapon -15% damage against humans -50% shooting speed It still awards Spies for destroying buildings, but gives additional bonus for finishing them with their revolver. This would makes them time correctly when to destroy buildings with revolver to get crit boost immediately or let the sapper do the job being unveiled to get crits as a backup plan. As a downside I've made it shooting slower, so you won't go ravage with those crits on your hands, and lowering damage against human beings. It is also made a bit more useful for MvM. Now it will give 2 seconds of critical hits on each sapped bot, finished with Diamondback. Plus, additional damage against sapped giants as well. Diamondback should be awarding for assaulting Engineer, but also it would be nice to make it less contextual. I hope I did so.

Baby Face Blaster slight rework (probably a shit idea but whatever): Same as before - user cannot pick up the intelligence - -1 cap rate on wearer + +30% Melee firing speed This supports a Melee based Scout loadout, and also fixes how broken the BFB can be with backcaps and an easy +1 on intel

[QUOTE=Fapplejack;41610670]Baby Face Blaster slight rework (probably a shit idea but whatever): Same as before - user cannot pick up the intelligence - -1 cap rate on wearer + +30% Melee firing speed This supports a Melee based Scout loadout, and also fixes how broken the BFB can be with backcaps and an easy +1 on intel[/QUOTE] Yup, kill the Scout's basic job. Excellent idea.

[QUOTE=Fapplejack;41610670]Baby Face Blaster slight rework (probably a shit idea but whatever): Same as before - user cannot pick up the intelligence - -1 cap rate on wearer + +30% Melee firing speed This supports a Melee based Scout loadout, and also fixes how broken the BFB can be with backcaps and an easy +1 on intel[/QUOTE] That is honestly just like the rocket jumper nerf (and maybe sticky nerf too?) all over again. Why nerf the weapon because it's strong with one or two maps? It's a problem with the map- not the weapon.

Baby Face's Blaster 40% more accurate -30% damage penalty +40% faster move speed on wearer No double jump Weapon is no longer a crippling penalty to roll out with. Which is the entire reason that a lot of people don't bother using it; they get stomped by enemy Scouts that have no movement penalty and aren't glued to the floor. Removing the jump restrictions but introducing a jump reduction allows the Scout to access paths that simply couldn't because of a small jump he has to make, and it also opens up avenues for dodging and juking. Although he can't double jump to evade being juggled. May have a problem if paired with the Atomizer. But that's an issue with the Atomizer, not the BFB. To me, it seems absolutely ridiculous for Scout to have weapons based around jumping only to get a weapon that basically says "no jumping."

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;41612550]Baby Face's Blaster 40% more accurate -30% damage penalty +40% faster move speed on wearer No double jump Weapon is no longer a crippling penalty to roll out with. Which is the entire reason that a lot of people don't bother using it; they get stomped by enemy Scouts that have no movement penalty and aren't glued to the floor. Removing the jump restrictions but introducing a jump reduction allows the Scout to access paths that simply couldn't because of a small jump he has to make, and it also opens up avenues for dodging and juking. Although he can't double jump to evade being juggled. May have a problem if paired with the Atomizer. But that's an issue with the Atomizer, not the BFB. To me, it seems absolutely ridiculous for Scout to have weapons based around jumping only to get a weapon that basically says "no jumping."[/QUOTE] Did you remove the "boost" meter, or just word it so it looks like you have?

He has made it so that there is no boost meter and you can always roll around at the speed of sound. I personally like BFB the way it is.

[QUOTE=Drury;41612667]He has made it so that there is no boost meter and you can always roll around at the speed of sound. I personally like BFB the way it is.[/QUOTE] I think they should make it so it resets on double jumping and not just jumping in general.

[QUOTE=MissingGlitch;41612697]I think they should make it so it resets on double jumping and not just jumping in general.[/QUOTE] The reason I removed the Boost mechanic is because it is extremely polarizing. Either you're lightning fast or you're slow as molasses. Running to the midfight slower than sin is not fun at all, which is why many Scouts don't even bother equipping the Blaster. My changes were with the intent of addressing the primary issues with the gun: the horrendous uphill climb that happens before the Scout can even see an enemy, and the fact that he pretty much has to glue himself to the floor unless he doesn't mind moving at the speed of slow again.

Serious idea: Boost carries over to the jump and you walk slow after landing.

or maybe we can put the old sandman nerf on the bfb? (no doublejump)

all pyro items expect for that melee one -50% burn duration

[QUOTE=aaakm1995;41613089]all pyro items expect for that melee one -50% burn duration[/QUOTE] all pyro weapons -100% bullshit

[QUOTE=aaakm1995;41613089]all pyro items expect for that melee one -50% burn duration[/QUOTE] Yeah, let's nerf that Pyro, he's so broken! I mean, there's a reason he's the only class used in comp 6v6, right? RIGHT?!

[QUOTE=aaakm1995;41613089]all pyro items expect for that melee one -50% burn duration[/QUOTE] -Mad Milk -Jarate -Airblast -Water -Mann Melter -dropped Sandviches -(sort of) Candy Cane Also those extinguish fire, independent from Medics and Dispensers. And you want to reduce the afterburn duration even more? [editline]27th July 2013[/editline] And not to forget the Chargin' Targe which is a pain to play against as a Pyro, even with a shotgun.

[QUOTE=Bynine;41613244]Yeah, let's nerf that Pyro, he's so broken! I mean, there's a reason he's the only class used in comp 6v6, right? RIGHT?![/QUOTE] Are we seriously discussing class balance in 6v6 now... Like that's a gold standard that dictates the ultimate class balance in the game. Because 99% of TF2 players play Platinum UGC.

[QUOTE=Drury;41614672]Are we seriously discussing class balance in 6v6 now... Like that's a gold standard that dictates the ultimate class balance in the game. Because 99% of TF2 players play Platinum UGC.[/QUOTE] I started typing as a response to this, but it got a bit out of hand and turned more into a general balance rant. Well pyro is a joke class that's easily countered by not being shit at the game (shots fired). Hating 6v6 doesn't change the fact that pyro is underpowered throughout every facet of play in TF2. While HL does try to balance every class, it does so in a way that makes the game slow so that every class has their opportunity to shine. 6s on the otherhand tries to cut the fat where necessary to make the game as fast paced as possible while keeping the classes as balanced as possible in this playstyle. In both of these situations, pyro is outshined by the other power classes on the team, and is downgraded to a support class whose job is to make sure the medic/heavy/demo can stomp on the other team while every other class does their actually useful job. Sure you have roaming pyros, but they're nowhere near as useful as every other class that's capable of roaming. In 6s, pyro's lack of mobility is his major downside. As I previously said, 6s tries to play as fast as possible, so generally yes, the faster and more versatile classes (scout/soldier/demo) will be the ones that are played 99% of the time. Even when the pace is slowed to accommodate last defenses, heavies are the class pulled out more often than pyro since he's such a big bullet sponge and DPS monster. In pubs, situations are so frantic and randomized, that balancing around this at all is like trying to hold water in a net. While a lot of people might complain about pyro in pubs, a lot of people are also worse than a majority of people who play HL and 6v6. So you have this endless cycle of bad players complaining about an already weak class. Don't get me wrong, pyro is a great utility class. Even though I said heavy is pulled out more often in 6s, pyro also has his airblast that makes him amazing at denying another team, but this is really the only utility the pyro has. He's fundamentally broken as a class. In situations with competent opponents, pyros WILL be shut down. From my experience lurking here, a good 95% of FP plays the game at a pub level. Those who play at least at a UGC steel level, for the most part, understand more clearly than 90% of players how classes work and interact. Balancing for the pub level is possible, and it is pretty much balanced right now. Higher skill players are rewarded for being better at the game, there are random crits to balance the field and allow newer players to overcome this skill gap. All that being said and contradicting what I said earlier about pyros, TF2 as a game is pretty balanced. In 6v6, HL, and pubs, the classes, weapons, and skill levels all balance each other out to a large degree. [sp]Contradicting myself again, Pyro could use a few buffs with the receiving end of his attacks in mind. This is really the only problem with the degreaser/axtinguisher is that it's not well thought out how this would impact other players' experience.[/sp]

I've never said I hate on 6v6. I just voiced my opinion about that argument which keeps coming up a lot lately and is absolutely absurd. Also, whether intentionally or not, you sound extremely elitist. You see, some people play on pubs not because they're not good enough to play competitively, but because they don't want to for whatever reason. You have high skill pubs too, you see, where skilled people play instead of lobbies (again for whatever reasons)(*cough*tryhard dicks*cough*). So for your information, pub games still have their rules, they're not dumpholes where rats randomly throw shits at each other, and pyros are extremely unpleasant to play against there, much like everything that's effective at dealing large amounts of damage at whatever range and whatever pace without needing much skill to use (a description fitting most of the "bad" or "overpowered" weapons). A vast majority of TF2 playerbase plays there, so it would make sense for Valve to pay attention to those people, in order to keep most of their customers happy, not just a small elite class.

Idea for the liberty launcher (Same stats before the nerf, maybe without the rocket speed) +40% push force by rockets This would make it easier to launch an enemy into the air and finish them off with other weapons

[QUOTE=Drury;41614672]Are we seriously discussing class balance in 6v6 now... Like that's a gold standard that dictates the ultimate class balance in the game. Because 99% of TF2 players play Platinum UGC.[/QUOTE] I was just using hyperbole/sarcasm to state the point that Pyro is the class least deserving of a nerf (besides the Degreasaxagreastinguiashxiter.)

[QUOTE=R.M.T.B.;41616355]Idea for the liberty launcher (Same stats before the nerf, maybe without the rocket speed) +40% push force by rockets This would make it easier to launch an enemy into the air and finish them off with other weapons[/QUOTE] I feel like they got it half right with the Liberty Launcher with the latest patch, just give his rockets for push force and you have a rocket launcher that can send enemies flying so you can attack with the Reserve Shooter, and you have rockets that deal less damage to yourself when rocket jumping when going for a Market Gardener kill.

[QUOTE=R.M.T.B.;41616355]Idea for the liberty launcher (Same stats before the nerf, maybe without the rocket speed) +40% push force by rockets This would make it easier to launch an enemy into the air and finish them off with other weapons[/QUOTE] Bigger rocketjumps would be neat too. [QUOTE=Bynine;41616430]I was just using hyperbole/sarcasm to state the point that Pyro is the class least deserving of a nerf (besides the Degreasaxagreastinguiashxiter.)[/QUOTE] Still, 6s... No matter how sarcastic, plz don't. I still believe pyro is going in the worst direction possible. Even without the crit combo, they keep buffing him, and all it does is make the worst pyro tactics even more annoying. And pyro is that sort of class which only kills people in the worst ways. I believe that in order to make pyro a good class, they should rather focus on the utility aspect, since the attack aspect obviously sucks. Engineer has that problem too. Which weapons do people like more - wrangler and minisentries or rescue ranger and short circuit? Heavy, Soldier, Scout etc. are better classes to design offensive weapons for, since those classes use weapons that are massively powerful, yet not completely impossible to avoid. You can dodge rockets, outrun heavy in a chess-like positioning game or precisely shoot down a swift, yet squishy scout. But pyro... Runs up to you, throws a thousand particles a single of which sets you on fire and lets you die of afterburn. Assuming you don't get hit by one of his weapons that always crit. Anyway in my opinion, flamethrower, being so easy to use and so hard to avoid, should be as weak as possible in combat and pyro should avoid fights directly and instead get a plethora gadgets to help him help his team. Someone should've told Robin 10 years ago... It's sorta too late now.

[QUOTE=wari65;41615004][stuff][/QUOTE] While I think I agree with most of this, I disagree with the pub part. Because while pubs are (for the most part) as chaotic as you describe them and the flow of any given public server is going to be determined by individual player skill rather than weapons, the sheer number of pub players creates a pretty accurate average. If a bunch of people do well with weapon A but twice as many people do well with weapon B, it's safe to say weapon B is stronger. If ten people make threads on SPUF asking for weapon X to be nerfed and 50 people make threads on SPUF asking for weapon X to be buffed, weapon X is more likely to be underpowered than overpowered. That, and, as Drury said, there are some pretty damn insightful people playing pubs as well.

[QUOTE=Drury;41616841]Bigger rocketjumps would be neat too. Still, 6s... No matter how sarcastic, plz don't. I still believe pyro is going in the worst direction possible. Even without the crit combo, they keep buffing him, and all it does is make the worst pyro tactics even more annoying. And pyro is that sort of class which only kills people in the worst ways. I believe that in order to make pyro a good class, they should rather focus on the utility aspect, since the attack aspect obviously sucks. Engineer has that problem too. Which weapons do people like more - wrangler and minisentries or rescue ranger and short circuit? Heavy, Soldier, Scout etc. are better classes to design offensive weapons for, since those classes use weapons that are massively powerful, yet not completely impossible to avoid. You can dodge rockets, outrun heavy in a chess-like positioning game or precisely shoot down a swift, yet squishy scout. But pyro... Runs up to you, throws a thousand particles a single of which sets you on fire and lets you die of afterburn. Assuming you don't get hit by one of his weapons that always crit. Anyway in my opinion, flamethrower, being so easy to use and so hard to avoid, should be as weak as possible in combat and pyro should avoid fights directly and instead get a plethora gadgets to help him help his team. Someone should've told Robin 10 years ago... It's sorta too late now.[/QUOTE] I also think pyro is in a bad place but for very different reasons. Pyro right now has the lowest skill ceiling next to engineer, primarily due to his terribly weak primary. It is easy to apply some afterburn with but hard to kill anything with the fall-off and particles. Sadly afterburn has so many counters, including the pyro itself, that it is largely inconsequential except as a set up for a crit or mini-crit, only available through unlocks however. In addition airblast itself has no skill indexing at all, its just hit button to stop ubers, hardly helping the pyro's ceiling. Valve needs to look at this primary and increase its effectiveness ,make it a threat so it isn't matched in dps by the syringe gun, while also adding in the ability for skill that weapons such as the rocket launcher or grenade launcher provide. Make him the combat class he was meant to be and get rid of unlock band-aids like the powerjack.

Nerf the BB Buff the BB