The "Weapon Fixing Megathread" - We fix weapons' stats and get in fights - Games

[QUOTE=Dr. Doughnut;41687179]I don't think sniper needs a nerf to counter heavies. All a heavy has to do is point his mini gun in the sniper's general direction and the constant flinching makes it impossible to headshot.[/QUOTE] But it's so easy to hit Brass Beast heavies that are spun up, even if you flinch every two seconds when the occasional bullet from their gun manages to hit you. Why not make the weapon more useful and strategetical?

[QUOTE=Dr. Doughnut;41687179]I don't think sniper needs a nerf to counter heavies. All a heavy has to do is point his mini gun in the sniper's general direction and the constant flinching makes it impossible to headshot.[/QUOTE] Unless of course they are using a cozy camper. Or are generally just way too far away for the bullets to reliably make him flinch. Or the flinching just doesn't happen, I've had instances of heavies constantly firing at me and I don't flinch at all.

[QUOTE=Drury;41683728]Exactly. Pyro needs a complete overhaul, I don't see it any other way. It's not effective, yet it's super frustrating when you do get killed by him in any way. Who likes dying of afterburn? Who likes getting puff'n'stinged? Who likes W+M1? Who likes dying in any of those ways by turning a corner and randomly running into a pyro? Yes, every sort of death in TF2 is annoying, but dying to pyros is extra bad, mostly because it's so easy for them to kill you within their range and nearly impossible to avoid. And then it's frustrating for pyros themselves to fight in any other way, they're out of options. They either find a way to flank the enemy and then effortlessly kill them or just keep getting killed over and over trying to charge them head-on (like new players often do).[/QUOTE] Some people are trying to address issues with the pyro by using source mod and a testing server. [url]http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3163582[/url] heres the thread so you can give the mod a try and give some feedback.

[QUOTE=OceanGovernor;41689291]Some people are trying to address issues with the pyro by using source mod and a testing server. [url]http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3163582[/url] heres the thread so you can give the mod a try and give some feedback.[/QUOTE] Holy fuck, the Volcano Fragment idea is fucking A+

[QUOTE=DatWut?;41689337]Holy fuck, the Volcano Fragment idea is fucking A+[/QUOTE] Certainly haven't seen that before (The idea for the volcano fragment is that it does crit damage on fireproof enemies like demoknights, spycicle spies, and pyros)

degreaser nerf / bullshit removal idea change "weapon change speed" to "weapon deploy speed" you whip said weapon out faster, but not other ones would also affect the reserve shooter, but not ruining what it was designed for

I think the axtinguisher extinguishing enemies is fair enough

[QUOTE=light dasher;41690291]I think the axtinguisher extinguishing enemies is fair enough[/QUOTE] You are going to die in one hit anyway unless you are a Heavy or Soldier. That nerf only helps 2 classes that are not Pyro.

[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/c/c9/Item_icon_Axtinguisher.png/100px-Item_icon_Axtinguisher.png?t=20120630231533[/IMG] [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG] On hit: all afterburn damage is dealt at once [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/16px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG] On hit: extinguishes target [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/16px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG] -50% damage penalty [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/16px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG] No random crits Odd, not that serious idea

[QUOTE=Mr. Jelly;41691756][IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/c/c9/Item_icon_Axtinguisher.png/100px-Item_icon_Axtinguisher.png?t=20120630231533[/IMG] [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG] On hit: all afterburn damage is dealt at once [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/16px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG] On hit: extinguishes target [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/16px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG] -50% damage penalty [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/16px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG] No random crits Odd, not that serious idea[/QUOTE] Why not put that all afterburn damage dealt on the SVF?

[QUOTE=OceanGovernor;41691802]Why not put that all afterburn damage dealt on the SVF?[/QUOTE] My idea will use your's, so hear me out: If the enemy you hit isn't on fire, it will light them on fire. If the enemy you hit is on fire from another weapon/source, it deals all afterburn damage at once, and extinguishes the target. Then, for the degreaser, we make it so it has a larger airblast delay so you HAVE to use it offensively since defensively will just let rockets hit you, especially if you miss the airblast. If delay isn't good enough, we could also nerf the force it pushes players so it won't push them 20ft into the air. edit: either that airblast force/delay thing or make it so the airblast pushes the pyro back too.

[QUOTE=MissingGlitch;41691577]You are going to die in one hit anyway unless you are a Heavy or Soldier. That nerf only helps 2 classes that are not Pyro.[/QUOTE] Nopenope, even then, it only helps Heavy. Soldier will still die in "1 hit" given the fact that the fire will have done well over a mere 5 damage by the time he is hit with an Axetinguisher.

Don't forget overheal, and quickfix ubers

Claid needs a huge rework its only good if you use a controller.

[QUOTE=Suttles;41693761]Claid needs a huge rework its only good if you use a controller.[/QUOTE] You charge significantly farther

[QUOTE=Suttles;41693761]Claid needs a huge rework its only good if you use a controller.[/QUOTE] The one time I used it I did pretty well. Then again it was a 2fort server :v: [editline]3rd August 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=LegndNikko;41695121]You charge significantly farther[/QUOTE] Not only that but it gives you an Eyelander range melee for 10 less health. I really wish they would advertise that on the weapons that have them.

but the eyelander quickly helps you forget about the hp difference, the range is nice and everything and I wish the good thing about it, stay but its only .5 seconds. Last time i checked the description is wrong and its .5. Might have been fixed tho, but i remember it being much shorter than it should have been or some shit Its main purpose atm is for anglejumping

[QUOTE=MissingGlitch;41691577]You are going to die in one hit anyway unless you are a Heavy or Soldier. That nerf only helps 2 classes that are not Pyro.[/QUOTE] Overheal is a thing, and a big part of competitive play, so that axtinguisher extinguishing nerf also would affect Demoman, Danger shield snipers, Gunsliger Engys etc...

[QUOTE=ScarfaceCrow;41695692]Overheal is a thing, and a big part of competitive play, so that axtinguisher extinguishing nerf also would affect Demoman, Danger shield snipers, Gunsliger Engys etc...[/QUOTE] It's not like the Pyro can't simply focus fire them shortly after the melee connects. It'd give them another quarter second to stay alive to easily follow it with a shotgun blast at that range.

And I remain on my opinion that the axtinguisher is balanced as long as you can't switch weapons in no time. You force yourself into a weapon heckling where you switch between low range and melee range, unless you manage to set it up properly. BTW, the vanilla melee weapon, and all its 7 different reskins according to class, are the most boring weapons in the game. Balancing stuff so you'd consider using it, well, wouldn't make the game better. Give me a reason to use the fists over the KGB, for instance. The axtinguisher is arguably more balanced with the vanilla than the KGB, the Ubersaw or the Escape Plan, due to having an actual downside and having to prepare for the crit rather than landing a random crit 65% of the time like most Melees would do. I often crit kill when puff-n-stinging with the Backscratcher or the Powerjack, and those kill even other Pyros. Remember, Axtinguisher = fun stuff with the vanilla Flamethrower; Degreaser = Extremely cheap bonus that some people mistake for skill.

How is the Escape plan a straight upgrade? I use whip or shovel all the time. Didn't they make it so you were marked for death when it was out? Fuck that shit, that ruined SHOTGUN heavy for me as well. I miss the old GRU. Fist of steel + shotgun is alright. I use gru mainly to get out of spawn, but I miss the days of it being GG EZ ESCAPE MECHANISM Speaking of fist of steel, is it...underpowered? That weapon switch time is pretty big.

I use whip, which is a fun weapon. But the escape plan, at least until the recent nerf (which, in my opinion, would have balanced the old equalizer better than the split), was, at full health, the shovel with a Medic block, but, at lower health, would equal a soldier running around hitting people with -195 crits; the escape plan was supposed to be the defensive half of the weapon, yet it got an offensive buff at higher health, while at lower health it is also better offensively than the vanilla, while the equalizer, the offensive half, is worse than both its counterpart and the shovel at full health at dealing damage, while at low health, the fact that the soldier is slow and frail makes the increased damage meaningless, while the Escape Plan is better due to the speed boost. So 50% damage penalty to the Escape Plan would be fine and make it balanced with the other pickaxe. But yeah, full equalizer that increases speed and damage as you are damaged, but blocks healing and marks for death? Brilliant in my opinion, and fun to use, enforces suicide rushes rather than showing your unprotected by falloff back to the enemy. And the whip is one of the few good weapons of the Uber update, as it is a glorious team-enforcing weapon. That's the kind of stuff melee unlocks should be.

[QUOTE=Eriorguez;41698002]And I remain on my opinion that the axtinguisher is balanced as long as you can't switch weapons in no time. You force yourself into a weapon heckling where you switch between low range and melee range, unless you manage to set it up properly. BTW, the vanilla melee weapon, and all its 7 different reskins according to class, are the most boring weapons in the game. Balancing stuff so you'd consider using it, well, wouldn't make the game better. Give me a reason to use the fists over the KGB, for instance. The axtinguisher is arguably more balanced with the vanilla than the KGB, the Ubersaw or the Escape Plan, due to having an actual downside and having to prepare for the crit rather than landing a random crit 65% of the time like most Melees would do. I often crit kill when puff-n-stinging with the Backscratcher or the Powerjack, and those kill even other Pyros. Remember, Axtinguisher = fun stuff with the vanilla Flamethrower; Degreaser = Extremely cheap bonus that some people mistake for skill.[/QUOTE] I, as a Pyro main, second this. I can off-class pretty well too and it annoys me to see my main being played in the, in my opinion, cheapest way possible. The Degreaser is seriously a problem. Admitted, I used the Degreaser myself, and it's pretty bad and encourages a bad way of playing. As soon as you miss your Flaregun shot or your melee swing, you'll switch to your primary and airblast your target into a corner/a wall to get a sure hit with either secondary or melee weapon. It's a rinse and repeat process. I know what I'm talking about. Also, the Degreaser takes away the necessity of thinking about what to do. You just switch to whatever weapon you need. Let's just say there's a Pyro in close range and a Soldier on a longer range. You can blow some Shotgun shots into the Pyro, switch to the Degreaser, backblast the incoming rocket and switch back to the Shotgun again. That's a feature the Pyro shouldn't have. You don't need to think ahead. You know what'd be a decent idea for the Degreaser? A delay for weapon switches. That way you could switch fast but have to wait before switching again.

Does whip still have eyelander range?

There was no better feeling that exploiting the Detonator bug and pulling a crit on a burning target while using the Backburner. That meant wasting 1/4th of your primary ammo to pull your burning enemy away, and switch to the secondary, shoot, and, before that hit, switch back to the primary and so the bug took place and instead of a minicrit you got a crit. While that was a bug and needed to be fixed, it felt like something EARNED. As do most of the crit kills I do with my flare gun, timing stuff so a strong blow is applied (and the Detonator minicrits are awesome as well). So yeah, the crits on demand are fine as long as they involve timing.

[QUOTE=DatWut?;41698390]I, as a Pyro main, second this. I can off-class pretty well too and it annoys me to see my main being played in the, in my opinion, cheapest way possible. The Degreaser is seriously a problem. Admitted, I used the Degreaser myself, and it's pretty bad and encourages a bad way of playing. As soon as you miss your Flaregun shot or your melee swing, you'll switch to your primary and airblast your target into a corner/a wall to get a sure hit with either secondary or melee weapon. It's a rinse and repeat process. I know what I'm talking about. Also, the Degreaser takes away the necessity of thinking about what to do. You just switch to whatever weapon you need. Let's just say there's a Pyro in close range and a Soldier on a longer range. You can blow some Shotgun shots into the Pyro, switch to the Degreaser, backblast the incoming rocket and switch back to the Shotgun again. That's a feature the Pyro shouldn't have. You don't need to think ahead. You know what'd be a decent idea for the Degreaser? A delay for weapon switches. That way you could switch fast but have to wait before switching again.[/QUOTE] Maybe the degreaser could be nerfed to reduce the weapon switch speed bonus to 30%?

[QUOTE=Suttles;41698478]Does whip still have eyelander range?[/QUOTE] whip has like 70% more range.

[QUOTE=R.M.T.B.;41698564]Maybe the degreaser could be nerfed to reduce the weapon switch speed bonus to 30%?[/QUOTE] The problem is any nerfs to degreaser would be changing the band-aid valve put on the class. They will never do this so we have to think of reworks for flamethrowers themselves so that having less damage is an actual downside, and that degreser can be secure in its role as a 1v1 king but bad against groups.

[QUOTE=OceanGovernor;41698717]The problem is any nerfs to degreaser would be changing the band-aid valve put on the class. They will never do this so we have to think of reworks for flamethrowers themselves so that having less damage is an actual downside, and that degreser can be secure in its role as a 1v1 king but bad against groups.[/QUOTE] Delay between swichting weapons.

The Degreaser allows easy access to critical hits(depending on what the user is wielding in his/her loadout), but maybe said critical hits should only deal double damage, seeing as the Degreaser allows the user to rapidly dish them out at little penalty. A little nerf to the switch speed bonus as well, let's say, +40% instead of +65%? And a change to the Axtinguisher, taking in the previously mentioned changes to the Degreaser, would deal critical hits on burning targets + deals all left over afterburn damage, but also extinguishes the victim(some users posted these great ideas, which make the weapon still viable when both are added). That way the Axtinguisher would still remain as a vicious and dangerous weapon, but only if the user is quick on the kill.