The "Weapon Fixing Megathread" - We fix weapons' stats and get in fights - Games

I don't agree with extinguishing the enemy. The only class that will survive the hit is the Heavy. It only helps one class. The reason it's such a problem is that it allows Pyros to easily insta-kill every class but one with the Degreaser/Axtinguisher combo. That "solution" fixes nothing.

[QUOTE=Mentlegen;41699422]I don't agree with extinguishing the enemy. The only class that will survive the hit is the Heavy. It only helps one class. The reason it's such a problem is that it allows Pyros to easily insta-kill every class but one with the Degreaser/Axtinguisher combo. That "solution" fixes nothing.[/QUOTE] Fuck, you're right. That extra afterburn damage could mean up to +60 on top of 130, which would only help the Heavy(Soldier still dies).

[QUOTE=brenz;41699349]The Degreaser allows easy access to critical hits(depending on what the user is wielding in his/her loadout), but maybe said critical hits should only deal double damage, seeing as the Degreaser allows the user to rapidly dish them out at little penalty. A little nerf to the switch speed bonus as well, let's say, +40% instead of +65%? And a change to the Axtinguisher, taking in the previously mentioned changes to the Degreaser, would deal critical hits on burning targets + deals all left over afterburn damage, but also extinguishes the victim(some users posted these great ideas, which make the weapon still viable when both are added). That way the Axtinguisher would still remain as a vicious and dangerous weapon, but only if the user is quick on the kill.[/QUOTE] It cripples Pyros who get Critboosted.

[QUOTE=brenz;41699817]Fuck, you're right. That extra afterburn damage could mean up to +60 on top of 130, which would only help the Heavy(Soldier still dies).[/QUOTE] Axtinguisher criticals do 195 damage. You only need to spritz a Soldier with your flamethrower before Axtinguishing him. You don't even need afterburn to help you.

I've said it twice and will say it again, although it doesn't change too much (yet) about Puff'n'Sting, but: Delay between weapon switches for the Degreaser.

Scout, Sniper, and Pyro both have some sort of combo that grants a free critical hit that kills mostly every class. (Scout= Sandman + Flying Guillotine, Sniper= Jarate + Bushwacka, Pyro= Any flamer + Axtinguisher) But what makes Pyro's combo different is that he can use it at all times. Scout needs to wait for his Sandman ball and Guillotine to recharge, and Sniper needs to wait for his Jarate to recharge. Pyro can get as many critical hits as he wants as long as he has ammo. The Axtinguisher is OP in the way how it's like other crit combos but does not need to recharge.

[QUOTE=DatWut?;41699993]I've said it twice and will say it again, although it doesn't change too much (yet) about Puff'n'Sting, but: Delay between weapon switches for the Degreaser.[/QUOTE] I honestly like this idea. You can instantly pull out any weapon, but you're stuck with that weapon and it forces you to commit.

[QUOTE=Mentlegen;41700016]I honestly like this idea. You can instantly pull out any weapon, but you're stuck with that weapon and it forces you to commit.[/QUOTE] It would also "fix" the Pyro airblasting you into a corner after a missed Axtinguisher/melee swing.

[QUOTE=MissingGlitch;41700011]Scout, Sniper, and Pyro both have some sort of combo that grants a free critical hit that kills mostly every class. (Scout= Sandman + Flying Guillotine, Sniper= Jarate + Bushwacka, Pyro= Any flamer + Axtinguisher) But what makes Pyro's combo different is that he can use it at all times. Scout needs to wait for his Sandman ball and Guillotine to recharge, and Sniper needs to wait for his Jarate to recharge. Pyro can get as many critical hits as he wants as long as he has ammo. The Axtinguisher is OP in the way how it's like other crit combos but does not need to recharge.[/QUOTE] Don't forget the fact that it requires aiming and timing to pull off the Sandman-Guillotine combo. The Pyro can easily just press M2 to deny your movement and phase your aim, then switch for a free critical swing as long as he is competent enough to make the connection. It forcibly takes away your freedom of will, something which the Sandman does, but it can be used continously, unlike the Sandman.

[QUOTE=Mentlegen;41700131]Don't forget the fact that it requires aiming and timing to pull off the Sandman-Guillotine combo. The Pyro can easily just press M2 to deny your movement and phase your aim, then switch for a free critical swing as long as he is competent enough to make the connection. It forcibly takes away your freedom of will, something which the Sandman does, but it can be used continously, unlike the Sandman.[/QUOTE] Don't forget a competent and aware Pyro may be able to reflect either the Sandman or Guillotine

[QUOTE=light dasher;41700225]Don't forget a competent and aware Pyro may be able to reflect either the Sandman or Guillotine[/QUOTE] Or Jarate. Pyro can encounter those other combos easily. That's just not right.

Pyro was made as an Ambushing class. Maybe rework the Axtinguisher so it only get crits when you hit them from behind when they are on fire. So you have to sneak behind them if you want to do anything with it. It stops Pyros from airblasting you into corners for the free crit kill and stops them by just doing nothing but running forward, puffing enemies with fire, and then Axtinguish them with no effort. Or rework the Axtinguisher so it compares with the other Crit Combos. Some type of cool down before you can get another crit kill.

[QUOTE=MissingGlitch;41700284]Pyro was made as an Ambushing class. Maybe rework the Axtinguisher so it only get crits when you hit them from behind when they are on fire. So you have to sneak behind them if you want to do anything with it. It stops Pyros from airblasting you into corners for the free crit kill and stops them by just doing nothing but running forward, puffing enemies with fire, and then Axtinguish them with no effort. Or rework the Axtinguisher so it compares with the other Crit Combos. Some type of cool down before you can get another crit kill.[/QUOTE] Kind of like a melee version of the Backburner? I'd be interested to see what would happen if it gave criticals from behind and minicrits from anywhere else.

[QUOTE=MissingGlitch;41700284]Pyro was made as an Ambushing class. Maybe rework the Axtinguisher so it only get crits when you hit them from behind when they are on fire. So you have to sneak behind them if you want to do anything with it. It stops Pyros from airblasting you into corners for the free crit kill and stops them by just doing nothing but running forward, puffing enemies with fire, and then Axtinguish them with no effort. Or rework the Axtinguisher so it compares with the other Crit Combos. Some type of cool down before you can get another crit kill.[/QUOTE] Run the backscratcher if you want melee back crits. Also pyro is no better at ambushing than other classes and often has less means to get into an ambush position so I would not call him that. Currently he is a support class with some disruption abilities.

[QUOTE=DatWut?;41699837]It cripples Pyros who get Critboosted.[/QUOTE] Then use a different flamethrower if you want a critboost.

[QUOTE=Eriorguez;41700617]Then use a different flamethrower if you want a critboost.[/QUOTE] If only I could switch out flamethrowers in the heat of battle when the medic has nobody left to crit boost.

Ah, shit happens. The cow mangler has it even worse, and it is a fucking soldier not being able to pull crit boosts. Price to pay for being able to shoot fire and swing an axe at the same time.

Maybe mark players who have the Axtinguisher out for death?

And that makes it weaker with flamethrowers other than the Degreaser. God fucking dammit, THE PROBLEM IS THE DEGREASER.

The knife and bat are different weapons, and the wrench accounts for different stuff than pure melee usage. I somewhat disagree with the kukri not being made irrelevant by the bushwacka, and that leaves us with the bottle as the single one within the bunch of reskins without a throughly superior alternative.

[QUOTE=Eriorguez;41698002]*stuff about other melees being boring*[/QUOTE] Oh you sad little existence. If it weren't for the axtinguisher, people would demand some other pyro melees to be nerfed. Backscratcher, for instance, is completely ridiculous. Free extra damage, medkits heal too much at the cost of medics healing very little. You don't need them anyway. It's my base pyro melee, it's just too good. Powerjack is like better half-zatoichi, it doesn't just heal, it also overheals. Now it also boosts you on the way. Homewrecker allows you to destroy sappers in one hit. Sappers sapping buildings built by engineers, not pyros, not you. There are already people who are unhappy with this. But axtinguisher is perfectly fine. It just instantly and effortlessly kills every class except the heavy. I don't use degreaser by the way, I don't even have one in my inventory.

And I see those as better than the fuckton of swords the Demoman has, because otherwise the melee slot has no depth. But oh well, lets complain about the melee weapons the worst class in the game are not balanced with the vanilla one that has no differences among classes and therefore is the least class-oriented and most swallow weapon in the game.

[QUOTE=Drury;41701235]But axtinguisher is perfectly fine. It just instantly and effortlessly kills every class except the heavy.[/QUOTE] I'm getting some mixed signals here.

[QUOTE=OceanGovernor;41700480]Run the backscratcher if you want melee back crits. Also pyro is no better at ambushing than other classes and often has less means to get into an ambush position so I would not call him that. Currently he is a support class with some disruption abilities.[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/v7nTVU0.png[/IMG] No stat on the BackScatcher says it gets crits on back hits,I am trying to make the Axtinguisher have some sort of skill level so it is not a free crit 1-hit kill till he runs out of ammo.

[QUOTE=MissingGlitch;41701379][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/v7nTVU0.png[/IMG] No stat on the BackScatcher says it gets crits on back hits,I am trying to make the Axtinguisher have some sort of skill level so it is not a free crit 1-hit kill till he runs out of ammo.[/QUOTE] I wish there was a Pyro secondary that had 'back' in it so I could make a Back Pyro set.

[QUOTE=MissingGlitch;41701379][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/v7nTVU0.png[/IMG] No stat on the BackScatcher says it gets crits on back hits,I am trying to make the Axtinguisher have some sort of skill level so it is not a free crit 1-hit kill till he runs out of ammo.[/QUOTE] Well damn why have I been whacking people from behind all this time. Also axt is fine, I really dont get how people focus on the weapons not the broken class that uses them.

Well, the axtinguisher requires weapon switching to work properly. So shoot the pyro while backpedaling while it switches and swings. It is not like half the melee hits in the game aren't 195 crits anyway...

[QUOTE=Eriorguez;41701425]Well, the axtinguisher requires weapon switching to work properly. So shoot the pyro while backpedaling while it switches and swings. It is not like half the melee hits in the game aren't 195 crits anyway...[/QUOTE] Most of the other Melee crits are random, The axtinguisher is "Hey look they are on fire! *swing* *Dead*"

What about an airblast penalty on it? or add a damage buff to it and remove afterburn? I dunno I'm just throwing stuff out there

Max should really just change this thread to the "The Degreaser + Axtinguisher Fixing Megathread" at this point.