The "Weapon Fixing Megathread" - We fix weapons' stats and get in fights - Games

[QUOTE=ScarfaceCrow;41716462]People want reworks on other weapons... are you sure ? how about --------(Also equipable on the primary sloth)------- [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/62/Item_icon_Buffalo_Steak_Sandvich.png/100px-Item_icon_Buffalo_Steak_Sandvich.png?t=20120630231919[/IMG] [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/3/35/Item_icon_Dalokohs_Bar.png/100px-Item_icon_Dalokohs_Bar.png?t=20120630232027[/IMG] [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/5/5e/Item_icon_Sandvich.png/100px-Item_icon_Sandvich.png?t=20120630234016[/IMG] ---------(Also equipable on the primary sloth)--------[/QUOTE] I know there are players that will disagree with this but, I find the shotgun useless on Heavy. So why would I replace my Minigun with the Sandvich...

[QUOTE=ClauAmericano;41716747]I know there are players that will disagree with this but, I find the shotgun useless on Heavy. So why would I replace my Minigun with the Sandvich...[/QUOTE] To make the Shotgun more useful. It wasn't always bad on the Heavy, back when his spinup time was much longer. It was good to have a weapon that fired right away.

[QUOTE=ScarfaceCrow;41716462]People want reworks on other weapons... are you sure ? how about --------(Also equipable on the primary sloth)------- [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/62/Item_icon_Buffalo_Steak_Sandvich.png/100px-Item_icon_Buffalo_Steak_Sandvich.png?t=20120630231919[/IMG] [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/3/35/Item_icon_Dalokohs_Bar.png/100px-Item_icon_Dalokohs_Bar.png?t=20120630232027[/IMG] [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/5/5e/Item_icon_Sandvich.png/100px-Item_icon_Sandvich.png?t=20120630234016[/IMG] ---------(Also equipable on the primary sloth)--------[/QUOTE] Primary sloth? Why not a monkey? I like monkeys.

[QUOTE=R.M.T.B.;41716745]To me, pyro is a "foil the enemy plans and assist your team" class[/QUOTE] Pyro is a offense-defense mixture, just like Demo is a defense-offense mixture. Look at this shitty illustration I made in paint: [img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/58470349/what%20a%20shit%20graph.png[/img] Basically, the sub-groups that the classes are divided into are intended to be placed like this. The closer to one sub-group a class gets, the more like it the class is. Scout is a offense-support mixture (burst damage for key-target kills, high speed for getting to the front lines and for capturing objectives). Soldier is true offense (his only defensive item being the backup battalion, and even that has its uses in pushing). Pyro is a offense-defense mixture (able to push, but due to the nature of fire, he's able to scatter and force enemies to either go back or push forward and possibly die. also, spy-checking!). Demo is a defense-offense mixture (excellent at both area denial and pushing, with the nature of stickybombs). Heavy is true defense (TF2's closest thing to a tank, tons of health, slow-moving, and huge damage output). Engineer is a defense-support mixture (the very nature of the sentry gun is defense, while dispensers and teleporters are purely supportive). Medic is a support-defense mixture (healing roles are always this, due to the nature of healing in games - favoring stalling and playing safely while the medic heals. ubercharges and their variants, however, take up a wide variety of roles, a split between offensive [ubercharges and kritzcharges] and defensive [vaccinator and quick-fix ubers]). Sniper is true support (stock sniper does nothing but kill key targets while staying alive). Spy is a support-offense mixture (key-target kills, a weapon that literally only kills sentries, allowing pushes through areas that were previously denied). I only wrote this up because I feel that a weapon should either aid or expand upon a class' roles, rather than completely changing them. For example, while the Huntsman brings the Sniper to the front lines, his job is still to kill key targets. You also have to look at it from the perspective of 2007 TF2 - no items involved, just what the classes are at their core. Items and player behavior completely change everything (offensive engineers spawned the Gunslinger, front-line snipers spawned the Huntsman, etc. etc. etc.), but items should still be balanced around what the classes are [I]at their core[/I].

[QUOTE=Zadrave;41716859]Primary sloth? Why not a monkey? I like monkeys.[/QUOTE] hey dont talk shit about sloths man they cool

[QUOTE=Zadrave;41716859]Primary sloth? Why not a monkey? I like monkeys.[/QUOTE] Monkey, is good... Anyway, a shotgun with fixed spread is an incredible lethal weapon that can do up to 100 damage per shot, it's the scout big sucess, the heavy is slow, but not that slow when not spinning that minigun, just a little slower than the soldier, hwg with he's large health pool can go up close where the shotgun is more usefull, and with a lunch box he will do this more often, have you guys ever played in a decent server with high FPS and fixed spread ? because I start to think that you guys don't know a gun called shotgun, or someone have a really bad aim. Also just to clear things up, I mean for the lunch box items to be equipable in both primary and secundary, just in case, also you could do stupid gimmick loadouts like buffalo steak + sandvich punching machine, I'm not saying how you should play heavy, I'm just giving more options...

[QUOTE=ClauAmericano;41716747]I know there are players that will disagree with this but, I find the shotgun useless on Heavy. So why would I replace my Minigun with the Sandvich...[/QUOTE] i play FB heavy for a whole game and people called me a tryhard and a fucking faggot for using it i wrecked their shit so hard they were calling the FB op

[QUOTE=Suttles;41717261]i play FB heavy for a whole game and people called me a tryhard and a fucking faggot for using it i wrecked their shit so hard they were calling the FB op[/QUOTE] You are a true family man.

[QUOTE=Suttles;41717261]i play FB heavy for a whole game and people called me a tryhard and a fucking faggot for using it i wrecked their shit so hard they were calling the FB op[/QUOTE] Now imagine with the whole lunch box items being multi-sloth, that we have a slight rework in the buffalo steak, alowing the secundary to be used freely with the melee while in the primary, and with that you could do a Buffalo Steak + Family Business + KGB loadout, so you could be a fat crit-a-cola scout, and sneak behind the enemy lines for your first melee kill, and start crit shoting the enemies for 5 seconds while at 104% speed, a man can dream, also I would be using this cosmetic loadout for doing it so... [QUOTE][IMG]http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/615025248047382807/4C571AE1F4A1D08A0C1782C4AAD5798A625F53D7/[/IMG][/QUOTE]

I know I'll be hated boxes for it, but if you want an item to be multi-slots just to be a fat scout, why not play as a... Scout? :v:

[QUOTE=Omninerd;41717921]I know I'll be hated boxes for it, but if you want an item to be multi-slots just to be a fat scout, why not play as a... Scout? :v:[/QUOTE] Because Scout isn't a fucking fatass

I can't feel the strength of a true fat man as a wimpy skinny-dipper.

[QUOTE=Omninerd;41717921]I know I'll be hated boxes for it, but if you want an item to be multi-slots just to be a fat scout, why not play as a... Scout? :v:[/QUOTE] [img]http://puu.sh/3U99L.jpg[/img] what are you talking about?

[QUOTE=Omninerd;41717921]I know I'll be hated boxes for it, but if you want an item to be multi-slots just to be a fat scout, why not play as a... Scout? :v:[/QUOTE] because you can survive a melee crit to the face besides, punching

I find shotguns pretty usable in conjunction with the brass beast, to be honest. Dispatching scouts with it is... not that hard as trying to spin up the thing and try to panic button your way through the scout's flesh. But that's probably the only occasion i can think of. Even since miniguns feature a fairly quick spin-up time, there's no reason to equip shotgun. There's probably nothing that can be done about this, except for re-increasing the miniguns' spin-up time or greatly buffing the shotguns.

[QUOTE=hawk18727;41718725]I find shotguns pretty usable in conjunction with the brass beast, to be honest. Dispatching scouts with it is... not that hard as trying to spin up the thing and try to panic button your way through the scout's flesh. But that's probably the only occasion i can think of. Even since miniguns feature a fairly quick spin-up time, there's no reason to equip shotgun. There's probably nothing that can be done about this, except for re-increasing the miniguns' spin-up time or greatly buffing the shotguns.[/QUOTE] Soldiers, snipers, demomen and spies are no reason to be mobile at all

[QUOTE=TectoImprov;41713596]It's been nonstop talk about Degreaser + Axtinguisher. Can we for the love of god please stop?[/QUOTE] The Degreaser DOES need a nerf though.

[QUOTE=Lolkork;41720401]Switch to another weapon will be -65% faster, switching to it will be 'percentage' slower. And normal flamethrower stats. It will still be a good flamethrower but it will require you to be more careful.[/QUOTE] I'd love if the flamethrowers became more different to eachother. Tweaking the airblast could be the way to go. If we go with the speed theme of the degreaser, airblast could never crit but send back projectiles faster. Also i guess adding no random crit to the flames could be a good thing too, since it's mostly used for combos, with crits provided by other weapons, it doesn't need to crit by itself. Tweaking the degreaser, making it a less powerfull flamethrower while keeping the combo idea is imo the best thing. It's OP because you can still use the degreaser as a normal flamethrower without any cons (well exept the [I]slight[/I] damage lost, but it's really nothing.)

I am still waiting for the no crits to be removed from the cow mangler 5000.

[QUOTE=DatWut?;41720250]The Degreaser DOES need a nerf though.[/QUOTE] More like the other flamethrowers just arent up there yet. I mean look at what valve did to the phlog, they are terrible at flamethrower balance.

[QUOTE=OceanGovernor;41720777]More like the other flamethrowers just arent up there yet. I mean look at what valve did to the phlog, they are terrible at flamethrower balance.[/QUOTE] am i the only one who hates the sodapopper and phlog seriously Not only does pyro get crits, he heals fully, he has 70% damage resistance while taunting to get it, but he gets all of this by doing fire damage Sodapopper isn't as bad, but its still a stupid gimmick. I RUN AROUND AND JUMP AS SCOUT, I GET FREE DAMAGE. [editline]5th August 2013[/editline] and when i say this I don't mean they are op their gimmicks are just fucking stupid

[QUOTE=Suttles;41720960]am i the only one who hates the sodapopper and phlog seriously Not only does pyro get crits, he heals fully, he has 70% damage resistance while taunting to get it, but he gets all of this by doing fire damage Sodapopper isn't as bad, but its still a stupid gimmick. I RUN AROUND AND JUMP AS SCOUT, I GET FREE DAMAGE. [editline]5th August 2013[/editline] and when i say this I don't mean they are op their gimmicks are just fucking stupid[/QUOTE] Its a terrible weapon though, less damage and no airblast makes you a free kill for everything. I agree completely with the soda popper statement though.

The Phlog comboing with fire damage is kind of nice because it utilizes the various Flare Guns without doing the crit combo stuff with them. It's also cool for pairing with the Detonator.

[QUOTE=OceanGovernor;41721200]Its a terrible weapon though, less damage and no airblast makes you a free kill for everything. I agree completely with the soda popper statement though.[/QUOTE] not calling it op, calling it a dumb gimmick

While speaking about the degreaser, i feel that the saying "Geniality is in simplicity" perfectly fits here. The degreaser still can maintain its combo capabilities. I don't see a problem in this. I see a problem in the stats themselves. There are two things that can be (and should be) done about the weapon: 1)Lower the switch speed bonus, so that switching to other weapons would still require some thought, and the owner will be more vulnerable while switching. Need to test the exact values though. 2)Lower the particle's damage to 4-5( From 5-6 ) to lower the weapon's damaging capabilities in comparison with the flamethrower even further, making it actually DISTINCT, while still giving it quite a punch, not nerfing it into oblivion and still granting puff-n-sting and puff-n-flare pyros supers damage capability. There is absolutely no need to propose some fallen from the sky gameplay mechanics.

[QUOTE=Lolkork;41722739][IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/65/UllapoolCaber.png/250px-UllapoolCaber.png?t=20111215234312[/IMG] New topic! This piece of crap really needs to be reworked, it's completely useless for any serious play. The demoman relies heavily on his melee attack on any loadout because it's the only short range attack that wont deal self damage, and giving him a melee weapon that deals heavy self damage seems a bit stupid.[/QUOTE] It's an instant kill to non overhealed Scouts, Medics, Spys, Snipers, and Engineers. It's a pretty stupid weapon but I can't think of a way to fix it without changing it completely.

[QUOTE=Lolkork;41720580]Yeah, changing the degreaser from being a combo weapon would make it utterly pointless, but I don't think that a damage penalty would really fix it. [editline]5th August 2013[/editline] But really, the degreaser isn't gamebreaking or that amazingly good. It's just that it makes the pyro much more fun to play, if they made the other flamethrowers as fun to use they would fix the issue.[/QUOTE] A damage penalty would stop it from getting in the vanilla FLamethrower's niche, which it can do AS WELL as its own. [editline]5th August 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Lolkork;41722739][IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/65/UllapoolCaber.png/250px-UllapoolCaber.png?t=20111215234312[/IMG] New topic! This piece of crap really needs to be reworked, it's completely useless for any serious play. The demoman relies heavily on his melee attack on any loadout because it's the only short range attack that wont deal self damage, and giving him a melee weapon that deals heavy self damage seems a bit stupid.[/QUOTE] It is one of the most fun weapons in the game.

[QUOTE=Lolkork;41722739][IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/65/UllapoolCaber.png/250px-UllapoolCaber.png?t=20111215234312[/IMG] New topic! This piece of crap really needs to be reworked, it's completely useless for any serious play. The demoman relies heavily on his melee attack on any loadout because it's the only short range attack that wont deal self damage, and giving him a melee weapon that deals heavy self damage seems a bit stupid.[/QUOTE] it's a joke weapon, just like the holiday punch I use it because it's hilarious to one-shot low-HP classes and go flying it doesn't need to be reworked, just use the bottle.

I'd say the Demo needs more melee weapons that aren't Demoknight-based. We only have another bottle, and it is a reskin. Other than that, the only stuff that works properly with explosive demo are the Caber (which means going out in a blaze of glory, pretty much) and the Zantoichi (which is quite different from the other swords due to its multiclass nature). So yeah, needs a bottle with stats.

Why does the Half-Zatoichi get to be the only Demoknight weapon to get random crits. It's obviously the most OP Demoknight melee weapon.