The "Weapon Fixing Megathread" - We fix weapons' stats and get in fights - Games

what should they do to make it better?

[QUOTE=Nightfury;40609030][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/2tEOO49.png[/IMG] Reverses 25 upgrade points per second on enemy building construction -100% Sapper damage penalty E.G: Spy saps Engie's lvl 3 Sentry for 4 seconds, Engie breaks it and the sentry is now lvl 2 with 100 upgrade points.[/QUOTE] Valve, I know the RTR has already been nerfed but please add these stats to it

[QUOTE=Suttles;41733247]what should they do to make it better?[/QUOTE] not reduce it's explosive damage when it hits players, only walls

[QUOTE=Lolkork;41733177]Double donks don't deal that much more damage than normal grenades most of the time, it can deal over 150 if you get a perfect (Detonation right after the direct hit) double donk with maximum rampup, but it's insanely unlikely that it will occur. And it has a low firerate due to cooking (Which becomes worse the closer a target is to you), low maximum range, complicated mechanics, and useless rollers. However, my actual in game experience with this weapon is fairly limited so please correct me if I'm wrong about something.[/QUOTE] It also has knockback, which is useful in a variety of situations. I think the rollers should get buffed and that would be enough for it honestly.

[QUOTE=Suttles;41733247]what should they do to make it better?[/QUOTE] Fix the projectile so it ACTUALLY GOES THROUGH EVERYONE instead of bouncing off of players 50% of the time. Still a glitchy as fuck weapon, though at least now it has a good dps.

I think the Loose Cannon and Scottish Resistance make an incredible combo. Just make a path of sticky traps and have your Loose Cannon up always, and you have both great escape and damage.

[QUOTE=ClauAmericano;41735764]I think the Loose Cannon and Scottish Resistance make a incredible combo. Just make a path of sticky traps and have your Loose Cannon up always, and you have both incredible escape and damage.[/QUOTE] As much as I love the Loose Cannon and Scores, I still feel like this is the UP combo of the demo. When you have two bad weapons equipped, you don't have the urge to just use the more powerful one since they're both UP.

[QUOTE=Drury;41735816]As much as I love the Loose Cannon and Scores, I still feel like this is the UP combo of the demo. When you have two bad weapons equipped, you don't have the urge to just use the more powerful one since they're both UP.[/QUOTE] But they're not UP, they're fine.

[QUOTE=Drury;41735816]UP[/QUOTE] They are not. To me it´s the best defensive loadout Demoman has so far.

[QUOTE=TectoImprov;41735841]But they're not UP, they're fine.[/QUOTE] They're both less powerful in regards to Damage number, which is the entire point of Demoman. Sco Res can pull insane damage numbers, but you can't reset quickly, which means all the enemy has to do is either uber through or throw enough meatshields at you and then push you during your down time. Though the LC theoretically can out Damage the stock, the average player simply can't match it. Even good players can't perfectly time the bombs. Add on to that the lack of roller and the lower fire rate, and you have a weapon that is only useful for knockback, which isn't a very useful feature. Knockback can even be a detriment since you can normally just pop them up, stopping all of their movement rather than reversing it

[QUOTE=legalize it;41736036]They're both less powerful in regards to Damage number, which is the entire point of Demoman. Sco Res can pull insane damage numbers, but you can't reset quickly, which means all the enemy has to do is either uber through or throw enough meatshields at you and then push you during your down time. [/QUOTE] what the scores has less downtime because you can chuck a couple of stickies different places and detonate them separately, it has a faster firerate which lets you do MORE damage if you don't simply sticky spam With the extra stickies out, faster firerate and separate detonations it's better in both damage and spread damage than the stock in every situation but sticky spamming(and that's what the LC/LnL/launcher is for anyway)

[QUOTE=RandomGamer342;41736152]what the scores has less downtime because you can chuck a couple of stickies different places and detonate them separately, it has a faster firerate which lets you do MORE damage if you don't simply sticky spam With the extra stickies out, faster firerate and separate detonations it's better in both damage and spread damage than the stock in every situation but sticky spamming(and that's what the LC/LnL/launcher is for anyway)[/QUOTE] Except sticky spam is usually 50-75% of a demoman's damage against good players. Traps only work so much. After a while, smart players will simply stop walking into areas where your trap are and unless you've got every area covered, you'll eventually get flanked with no way to fight back. Once people stop walking into traps, you stop doing any damage, and you're stuck standing around not doing anything, whereas with stickies, you can push out with your team.

[QUOTE=Lolkork;41736448]Sticky traps are useful even though they might not kill anyone, it keeps people away from certain areas and can buy you enough time to cap a point or escape.[/QUOTE] One tactic that one of my friends adopted when he had a stint using the ScoRes is to create a minefield with the faster firing rate and then spend the rest of the time fighting with his primary slot. Nothing says "zoning" like covering an entire chunk of the map with explosives that could go off at any time. Rest assured, he was really frustrating to fight solely because he had command over such a wide area. Even 1 sticky is enough to put a big dent in someone's health, if he saw someone step on one he'd pop that 1 sticky and follow-up with a grenade. The only way to get around him was to stay out of his line of sight which isn't always reliable since people tend to look around to check their flank. The Loose Cannon paired well with it because he could easily shove someone into a couple stickies to ensure a kill even if he hits with the direct contact and the timed explosion.

I see a lot of energy spent on this thread talking about weapons that are situational, but not necessary underpowered, and also talking about anoying weapons that are not necessary overpowered. For example, let's talk about Manntreads, you loose your shotgun for two new skills, one is -75% knockback, that is not a real upside, because sometimes, you would like to be rock solid, so you can, for example: defend Gravelpit B roof, without being lauched off by explosive knockback, so it's an upside, but sometimes, you want your knockback so while you are flying directly into danger, a sentry can send you out of it's range before killing you, so that's an downside. The other weapon "perk" is the goomba stomp feature, that depends on, map layout, skybox size, etc... and you basicly loose a ton of health to do a more dificult dive bomb that would have a bigger chance of sucess if done with rockets lauched from the air. Manntreads it's about buffing soldiers movement, so don't talk about merging with Gunboats, one have as core feature movement, the other is about rocket jumping more frequently. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/6a/Item_icon_Mantreads.png/100px-Item_icon_Mantreads.png?t=20120701010550[/IMG] Level 100 Roamer tool. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png?t=20110419094531[/IMG]–75% reduction in push force taken from damage. (also aplied to airblast) [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png?t=20110419094531[/IMG]+15% self knockback. (greater jumps) [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png?t=20110419094531[/IMG]+25% Air Control. (tight turns on the air) [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png?t=20110419094531[/IMG]+13% Base Speed. (now 93%, demoman base speed) [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png?t=20110419094531[/IMG]Deals 3x falling damage to the player you land on.

If you ask me, the wrap assassin desperately needs a buff

Eh, it's a Cleaver that doesn't take up your secondary spot. It's fine, if boring. Good for the Babyface if nothing else.

[QUOTE=R.M.T.B.;41739711]If you ask me, the wrap assassin desperately needs a buff[/QUOTE] Maybe make the ball charge faster?

[QUOTE=ScarfaceCrow;41739275]stuff[/QUOTE] Apart from completely breaking jump maps, rollouts, and tons of other small areas on maps, this is still a dumb straight upgrade. Jumping doesn't need a buff, and all this does is make the gunboats useless, while making Roamers harder to kill. It'd be banned in 6s and a required use in HL because you'd never be able to be shut down. Right now the pocket has a reasonable ability to stall roamers, but allowing greater mobility and resistance to that would make it so the only way for a bomb to fail would be if the roamer fucked up.

[QUOTE=legalize it;41739826]Apart from completely breaking jump maps, rollouts, and tons of other small areas on maps, this is still a dumb straight upgrade. Jumping doesn't need a buff, and all this does is make the gunboats useless, while making Roamers harder to kill. It'd be banned in 6s and a required use in HL because you'd never be able to be shut down. Right now the pocket has a reasonable ability to stall roamers, but allowing greater mobility and resistance to that would make it so the only way for a bomb to fail would be if the roamer fucked up.[/QUOTE] you're still losing the shotgun, and the last time I checked, that's a gigantic fucking downside

[QUOTE=Unisath;41740086]you're still losing the shotgun, and the last time I checked, that's a gigantic fucking downside[/QUOTE] Not in HL or as a roamer. If your job is to bomb in and kill one person, anything that makes the bombing part easier makes your job that much easier. Gunboats are valuable because they allow a high amount of mobility so that a soldier can bomb from unexpected places. This would make it harder to be fast, but your bombs themselves would be almost impossible to shut down until you land, which means you can get 2-3 rockets off on the medic without having to worry about airstrafing or anything, and on top of that if you land on someone you stand a good chance of finishing them.

[QUOTE=TectoImprov;41739769]Maybe make the ball charge faster?[/QUOTE] Oh man. I would love this, I'd be bastard scout spamming bleed-based projectiles all the fucking time :v:

[QUOTE=Kegan;41740382]Oh man. I would love this, I'd be bastard scout spamming bleed-based projectiles all the fucking time :v:[/QUOTE] which is why it won't happen, face it it's just a nuisance, after a while people would come to hate constant bleed, as if constant afterburn from half the server being Pyros wasn't enough

[QUOTE=ScarfaceCrow;41739275]I see a lot of energy spent on this thread talking about weapons that are situational, but not necessary underpowered, and also talking about anoying weapons that are not necessary overpowered. For example, let's talk about Manntreads, you loose your shotgun for two new skills, one is -75% knockback, that is not a real upside, because sometimes, you would like to be rock solid, so you can, for example: defend Gravelpit B roof, without being lauched off by explosive knockback, so it's an upside, but sometimes, you want your knockback so while you are flying directly into danger, a sentry can send you out of it's range before killing you, so that's an downside. The other weapon "perk" is the goomba stomp feature, that depends on, map layout, skybox size, etc... and you basicly loose a ton of health to do a more dificult dive bomb that would have a bigger chance of sucess if done with rockets lauched from the air. Manntreads it's about buffing soldiers movement, so don't talk about merging with Gunboats, one have as core feature movement, the other is about rocket jumping more frequently. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/6a/Item_icon_Mantreads.png/100px-Item_icon_Mantreads.png?t=20120701010550[/IMG] Level 100 Roamer tool. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png?t=20110419094531[/IMG]–75% reduction in push force taken from damage. (also aplied to airblast) [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png?t=20110419094531[/IMG]+15% self knockback. (greater jumps) [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png?t=20110419094531[/IMG]+25% Air Control. (tight turns on the air) [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png?t=20110419094531[/IMG]+13% Base Speed. (now 93%, demoman base speed) [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png?t=20110419094531[/IMG]Deals 3x falling damage to the player you land on.[/QUOTE] Here is a suggestion I had a while back - [B]OLD[/B] [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png?t=20110419094531[/IMG] -75% reduction in push force taken from damage [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png?t=20110419094531[/IMG] Deals 3x falling damage to the player you land on [B]NEW 1[/B] [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png?t=20110419094531[/IMG] -75% reduction in push force taken from damage [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png?t=20110419094531[/IMG] Deals 5x falling damage to the player you land on [B]NEW 2[/B] [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png?t=20110419094531[/IMG] -75% reduction in push force taken from damage [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png?t=20110419094531[/IMG] Deals 3x falling damage to the player you land on [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png?t=20110419094531[/IMG] Wearer takes no falling damage [B]NEW 3[/B] [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png?t=20110419094531[/IMG] No push force taken from anything [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png?t=20110419094531[/IMG] Deals 3x falling damage to the player you land on If the fall damage thing was implemented, I think jumper soldier might actually be a viable loadout. (Not like the joke-type loadout it is now)

I still think it could use a small rocket jump damage reduction, like 20-35%?

[QUOTE=PSI Guy;41739761]Eh, it's a Cleaver that doesn't take up your secondary spot. It's fine, if boring. Good for the Babyface if nothing else.[/QUOTE] It's also long-range boston basher that doesn't kill it's user.

Funny thing that people got outraged with my buff, but still demoman have 93% base speed, can jump across the maps, have damage output to kill a full HL team and everyone is ok with that, the jump boost suggestion is similar to "water boosting effect", that now can be achieved with a bug that I will not put to public till valve fix, remember guys, the suggested new Mantread is not a shotgun, you still take full damage from even greater falls since you jump more and from blast, the conservative 6's community is all about repeating the same thing over and over, how about inventing new rollouts with the new tool, creating new jump techniques, with a mind set of some people here, medics would be still using Bonesaw, also did I ever mentioned that the Soldier have a secundary that shut down crits and minicrits in a large area of effect ? did I told you that this same weapon reduce damage by 35%! also that this same before mentioned weapon reduce sentry damage by 50% !!! all this by only 600 damage, buy now! oh that sound OP ? or the weapon is fine ? can mantreads be a fine weapon too ?

I wonder what would happen If we moved the speed bonus and the damage vulnerability on the powerjack from a when weapon is active trait to an on wearer trait.

[QUOTE=ASIC;41744555]I wonder what would happen If we moved the speed bonus and the damage vulnerability on the powerjack from a when weapon is active trait to an on wearer trait.[/QUOTE] 20% all damage vulnerability at all times? Ew.

[QUOTE=GastricTank;41745008]20% all damage vulnerability at all times? Ew.[/QUOTE] Why can't I just be vulnerable to bullets like before? (15%) Its not like I was hunting heavies or most scouts as grease jockey anyways.

[QUOTE=ASIC;41744555]I wonder what would happen If we moved the speed bonus and the damage vulnerability on the powerjack from a when weapon is active trait to an on wearer trait.[/QUOTE] If the damage vulnerability was 10% and only to bullets (maybe bullets and fire to make it a little more fair) and the speed bonus was 10% as well then I wouldn't mind that at all - in fact, I'd like it more.