The "Weapon Fixing Megathread" - We fix weapons' stats and get in fights - Games

Honestly, I think the Soda Popper would be fine without the Hype bar and the minicrits and such

Hype builds through damage and you can activate it at anytime whenever the bar's full.

[QUOTE=TectoImprov;41872518]Hype builds through damage and you can activate it at anytime whenever the bar's full.[/QUOTE] Remember how dumb the Phlog was when you could activate it in midair instead of needing to taunt? Yeah, instantly activating ~bonus damage~ isn't exactly fun nor engaging for anyone on the receiving end as there's literally nothing they can do to prevent it from coming since they were given zero indication to it. With the Buff Banner, there's a loud horn that cues you into what's to come. With the Phlog, you can hear the Pyro taunting and maybe even see him glowing if you have a line of sight. When a Hitman's Heatmaker gets and activates Focus, you see him glowing and firing really-obvious laser beams. Threat readability is still a core design ethic that TF2 was constructed around. Keep it that way. [editline]17th August 2013[/editline] There are really 2 simple different solutions to it really: Have the Scout announce it in some way. He does it with the Crit-a-Cola just fine. As does every other damage boosting status. It'd be consistent with the rest of the game. Have the Scout be incapable of storing it. Just activate it immediately when he gets enough damage. Each of the Scout guns serves a different purpose. Scattergun is the all-rounder. Force-a-Nature is the hit & run. Short Stop is the kiting tool. Baby Face's Blaster is a different style hit & run. I think of the Soda Popper as a pressure-based gun. A weapon that allows the Scout to keep gnawing away at his enemies with its rapid reload and then turn a full Hype meter into a killstreak. Of course, I'd much prefer if Hype operated on kills/assists like the Heatmaker, but damage works too. Just not the running around, that's just dumb.

[QUOTE=OceanGovernor;41871625]I hope one day player skill rises enough to recognize axt is not a problem.[/QUOTE] The degreaser isn't the problem standalone. The axe isn't the problem standalone. Axtinsuisher + degreaser as a combo is the problem.

The Degreaser can be used like the vanilla Flamethrower with close to no penalty, PLUS its extra uses. Needs a on wearer drawback to compensate for its HUGE on wearer bonus. Or do even less damage.

[QUOTE=Eriorguez;41877896]The Degreaser can be used like the vanilla Flamethrower with close to no penalty, PLUS its extra uses. Needs a on wearer drawback to compensate for its HUGE on wearer bonus. Or do even less damage.[/QUOTE] Degreaser doesn't need to get nerfed, Flamethrower needs to get buffed. I can't stress this enough.

[QUOTE=Zadrave;41877840]The degreaser isn't the problem standalone. The axe isn't the problem standalone. Axtinsuisher + degreaser as a combo is the problem.[/QUOTE] Degreaser IS the problem. Even standalone. With it the Pyro doesn't have to think ahead as instead, he can quickly pull out the weapon he needs just now without having to force any consequences. He can even quickly switch to the primary and deflecting an oncoming rocket, which gives the Pyro a clear (and unfair) advantage over the Soldier. [editline]18th August 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Eriorguez;41877896]The Degreaser can be used like the vanilla Flamethrower with close to no penalty, PLUS its extra uses. Needs a on wearer drawback to compensate for its HUGE on wearer bonus. Or do even less damage.[/QUOTE] Said it before and will say it again: Penalty between switchting weapons again. You have the fast switch but have to wait like 1 second before being able to switch again.

[QUOTE=Zadrave;41877840]The degreaser isn't the problem standalone. The axe isn't the problem standalone. Axtinsuisher + degreaser as a combo is the problem.[/QUOTE] They're both a problem standalone and utter bullshit as a combo.

The degreaser could have a huge nerf in firepower and still work as a great comboing weapon. Just make it not usable as a standard flamethrower.

[QUOTE=NapyDaWise;41879262]The degreaser could have a huge nerf in firepower and still work as a great comboing weapon. Just make it not usable as a standard flamethrower.[/QUOTE] You mean like nerf the afterburn to 2 seconds? Might work, I don't think it would make puff'n'sting any less BS though.

[QUOTE=Drury;41879046]They're both a problem standalone and utter bullshit as a combo.[/QUOTE] Axtinguisher is bearable standalone.

It's not, it's a melee that gives you free instakills. And it makes the other melees seem useless in comparison, even though pyro has some of the most powerful melees in the game.

[QUOTE=Drury;41879275]You mean like nerf the afterburn to 2 seconds? Might work, I don't think it would make puff'n'sting any less BS though.[/QUOTE] Puff'n'sting isn't BS, it's nothing more than a backstab from a class that can't cloak and disguise. The problem is you can totally use the degreaser as a standard flamethrower without that much cons. Even with -50% damage, -100% afterburn damage and no crit on airblast, the degreaser stays a great at what it should be doing : combos. But it can't be used like a normal FT.

[QUOTE=Drury;41879289]It's not, it's a melee that gives you free instakills. And it makes the other melees seem useless in comparison, even though pyro has some of the most powerful melees in the game.[/QUOTE] I said bearable. [editline]18th August 2013[/editline] Not that it's balanced.

[QUOTE=DatWut?;41879993]I said bearable. [editline]18th August 2013[/editline] Not that it's balanced.[/QUOTE] It is though, it is only at low skill levels that its considered a problem. Where aim is in short supply.

Honestly I prefer to get kills with my primary and secondary as a pyro because I feel like a jerk if I get a crit axtinguisher kill (but it feels good to get a non crit axtinguisher kill)

I think its been a decent few months since I've seen a puff'n'sting be an actual problem, every single time however, I was either pyro or demoman. You guys forget the fact that there are three classes that can get away from this crit-on-demand combo, and that a single puff'n'sting pyro will not take down an entire team alone. Sure its pretty crappy to get killed by the same guy every so often in less than seconds, but lets face it, you let him get close. Soldiers can rocket jump away, ditto with demos if that lack the Targe, pyros are immune, scouts can (who would've guessed) run'n'jump away, and as for the other classes, well you did let him get that close to you. If he ambushed you, then surprise! You were killed by a pyro doing what the class was best suggested to do. Also if you were low on health and cant rocket jump away or whatever, its not like you would've survived much better if it was a heavy turning the corner or most other classes.

I've seen a bazillion of pages talking about d'axtinguisher pyros and, strangely enough, not a single one about heavy's primary weapons. I think that every single one of them (probably except for the Huo Long's Heater, which is fine concept and stat wise) needs a rework. The Brass Beast has a Hugh Jass windup time, and offers a damage bonus - something a stock minigun doesn't need, as it can already mow down [euphemism for excrements] in seconds at close range and deal decent damage at middle range. The Tomislav has a silent wind up, but offers both neglectable dps penalty and neglectable wind up bonus. It both serves its purpose as an ambushing weapon (which isn't the best idea for the heavy to begin with) and a... fucking minigun, making it more viable to use to begin with. The Natascha... The concept of slowdown isn't bad and deserves to live because of its support potential and and scout dispatching. However, i don't like that they've slapped a spin-up penalty on the weapon, making it considerably underpowered.

[QUOTE=hawk18727;41881762]I've seen a bazillion of pages talking about d'axtinguisher pyros and, strangely enough, not a single one about heavy's primary weapons. I think that every single one of them (probably except for the Huo Long's Heater, which is fine concept and stat wise) needs a rework. The Brass Beast has a Hugh Jass windup time, and offers a damage bonus - something a stock minigun doesn't need, as it can already mow down [euphemism for excrements] in seconds at close range and deal decent damage at middle range. The Tomislav has a silent wind up, but offers both neglectable dps penalty and neglectable wind up bonus. It both serves its purpose as an ambushing weapon (which isn't the best idea for the heavy to begin with) and a... fucking minigun, making it more viable to use to begin with. The Natascha... The concept of slowdown isn't bad and deserves to live because of its support potential and and scout dispatching. However, i don't like that they've slapped a spin-up penalty on the weapon, making it considerably underpowered.[/QUOTE] TIt does kind of suck how every single heavy primary just doesn't compare to the stock minigun. The only one that's a kind of viable sidegrade is the brass beast. Tomislov was a monster when it was released, but then it got nerfed to oblivion, and the natasha...well, the thing about the natasha is that it's so useless because the concept itself is just nearly impossible to balance without it being overpowered. So yeah, that's why they put spindown penalty, they just couldn't balance the weapon right so they just nerfed it to oblivion. Same thing with the tomislov. It's hard to come up with a good minigun idea without it being overpowered or useless.

Welcome to the [B][U]MOBSTER MONDAY FIXES UPDATE!![/U][/B] *[I]insert neon signs here[/I]* [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/b/bd/Evictionnotice.PNG/250px-Evictionnotice.PNG?t=20110630002610[/IMG] +50% faster firing speed -60% damage penalty +On Hit: Bleed for 5 seconds -On Miss: Hit yourself. Stoopid. Whoa whoa whoa, [B]calm down there![/B] You sure this is good? A Boston Basher for the Heavy? [I]Heall yeah[/I], it is! Right now the Heavy doesn't have anything to help his beloved Medics to build über faster since the GRU rework. This will come in hand in a good way! Maybe readjust the speed so it makes more dificult for the Heavy to miss? I don't know, different from Scout, he has a goddam huge health pool! In one hand, he will be more likely miss more hits, but in the other, he can take more hits on himself than the Scout! [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/b/ba/Familybusiness.PNG/250px-Familybusiness.PNG?t=20110624023616[/IMG] +33% clip size -15% damage penalty +On hit: restores 15 health points. Or: +33% clip size -15% damage penalty +On hit: 30% of the damage done restores the player health points. What's that? A kind of [I]sandvich-shotgun[/I]?! You sure bet it is! The damage penalty can be bigger or not, or the increased clip size can be removed, for the balance's sake! But this will help Heavies to regain their large health pool while still being agressive with this lil' pretty "Heavy's Blackbox". More roaming Heavies! Yay! [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/b/be/Bigearner.PNG/250px-Bigearner.PNG?t=20110625205525[/IMG] +30% cloak on kill -25 max health on wearer +50% health from healing sources on wearer Well well well, what we've got here? A knife! What does it do? It stabs! And give you cloak for it! Nice reward, huh? [B]Bullsh***![/B] You will get yourself killed all the time with this. "So give it a health on kill, dude!" What do you think I am? Some kind of crazy japanese assassin? Go get your own health packs! You'll feel good! Camp next to this redneck's dispenser! And then sap it! You'll probably feel guilty because it trusted you and saved your life even while you wanted to kill its creator since the beginning, but hey, it doesn't have feelings, right? Oh gosh, it had [I]a hat[/I]? The dispenser had [I]A GODDAM HAT[/I]?! Welp, congratulations. It wasn't a dispenser, it was a friendly Heavy sharing his sandvich with you. Now get the hell out of here, your heartless monster! [B]edit:[/B] Oh gosh, what rude I was. I need to give some credits to the Big Earner buff idea to a [URL="http://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/1kdgzs/suggestions_new_spy_watch_and_additional/"] Reddit post [/URL] made by /u/Kris18. I don't know if he visits Facepunch. The stat suggest wasn't made by him, but by a guy who commented, and he liked the suggestion (and so did I).

[QUOTE=Omninerd;41881984]Welcome to the [B][U]MOBSTER MONDAY FIXES UPDATE!![/U][/B] *[I]insert neon signs here[/I]* [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/b/bd/Evictionnotice.PNG/250px-Evictionnotice.PNG?t=20110630002610[/IMG] +50% faster firing speed -60% damage penalty +On Hit: Bleed for 5 seconds -On Miss: Hit yourself. Stoopid. Whoa whoa whoa, [B]calm down there[/B]! You sure this is good? A Boston Basher for the Heavy? [I]Heall yeah[/I], it is! Right now the Heavy doesn't have anything to help his beloved Medics to build über faster since the GRU rework. This will come in hand in a good way! Maybe readjust the speed so it makes more dificult for the Heavy to miss? I don't know, different from Scout, he has a goddam huge health pool! In one hand, he will be more likely miss more hits, but in the other, he can take more hits on himself than the Scout! [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/b/ba/Familybusiness.PNG/250px-Familybusiness.PNG?t=20110624023616[/IMG] +33% clip size -15% damage penalty +On hit: restores 15 health points. [B]Or:[/B] +33% clip size -15% damage penalty +On hit: 30% of the damage done restores the player health points. What's that? A kind of [I]sandvich-shotgun[/I]?! You sure bet it is! The damage penalty can be bigger or not, or the increased clip size can be removed, for the balance's sake! But this will help Heavies to regain their large health pool while still being agressive with this lil' pretty "Heavy's Blackbox". More roaming Heavies! Yay![/QUOTE] plz no, these weapons are already perfect, they don't need changed.

-snip-

I think i'm in love with that family business suggestion.

[QUOTE=Omninerd;41881984]Welcome to the [B][U]MOBSTER MONDAY FIXES UPDATE!![/U][/B] *[I]insert neon signs here[/I]* [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/b/bd/Evictionnotice.PNG/250px-Evictionnotice.PNG?t=20110630002610[/IMG] +50% faster firing speed -60% damage penalty +On Hit: Bleed for 5 seconds -On Miss: Hit yourself. Stoopid. Whoa whoa whoa, [B]calm down there![/B] You sure this is good? A Boston Basher for the Heavy? [I]Heall yeah[/I], it is! Right now the Heavy doesn't have anything to help his beloved Medics to build über faster since the GRU rework. This will come in hand in a good way! Maybe readjust the speed so it makes more dificult for the Heavy to miss? I don't know, different from Scout, he has a goddam huge health pool! In one hand, he will be more likely miss more hits, but in the other, he can take more hits on himself than the Scout! [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/b/ba/Familybusiness.PNG/250px-Familybusiness.PNG?t=20110624023616[/IMG] +33% clip size -15% damage penalty +On hit: restores 15 health points. Or: +33% clip size -15% damage penalty +On hit: 30% of the damage done restores the player health points. What's that? A kind of [I]sandvich-shotgun[/I]?! You sure bet it is! The damage penalty can be bigger or not, or the increased clip size can be removed, for the balance's sake! But this will help Heavies to regain their large health pool while still being agressive with this lil' pretty "Heavy's Blackbox". More roaming Heavies! Yay! [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/b/be/Bigearner.PNG/250px-Bigearner.PNG?t=20110625205525[/IMG] +30% cloak on kill -25 max health on wearer +50% health from healing sources on wearer Well well well, what we've got here? A knife! What does it do? It stabs! And give you cloak for it! Nice reward, huh? [B]Bullsh***![/B] You will get yourself killed all the time with this. "So give it a health on kill, dude!" What do you think I am? Some kind of crazy japanese assassin? Go get your own health packs! You'll feel good! Camp next to this redneck's dispenser! And then sap it! You'll probably feel guilty because it trusted you and saved your life even while you wanted to kill its creator since the beginning, but hey, it doesn't have feelings, right? Oh gosh, it had [I]a hat[/I]? The dispenser had [I]A GODDAM HAT[/I]?! Welp, congratulations. It wasn't a dispenser, it was a friendly Heavy sharing his sandvich with you. Now get the hell out of here, your heartless monster! [B]edit:[/B] Oh gosh, what rude I was. I need to give some credits to the Big Earner buff idea to a [URL="http://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/1kdgzs/suggestions_new_spy_watch_and_additional/"] Reddit post [/URL] made by /u/Kris18. I don't know if he visits Facepunch. The stat suggest wasn't made by him, but by a guy who commented, and he liked the suggestion (and so did I).[/QUOTE] I like the 2nd suggestion for the family business more

[QUOTE=kibbleknight;41882066]plz no, these weapons are already perfect, they don't need changed.[/QUOTE] If you mean that they are balanced, I agree. But the stats are so silly that they are just a waste of a good shotgun and melee weapon models. They don't promote different gameplay styles like I think every weapon should at least try to do. :I [QUOTE=hawk18727;41882581]I think i'm in love with that family business suggestion.[/QUOTE] Oh thanks! :D I has this idea after seeing the donator privileges for the nightteam servers (at least they were good for this idea), where donators would use their shotguns to regain health according to the damage they dealt with the shotgun.

[QUOTE=kibbleknight;41882066]plz no, these weapons are already perfect, they don't need changed.[/QUOTE] The Eviction Notice is probably the worst item in the whole game. It [I]does[/I] need to be changed.

I think the bleed damage is good, the "on miss: hit yourself" isn't. A weapon shouldn't be basically the same weapon but for a different class. As for the family business, it'd need a much bigger downside than -15% damage if it's gonna get +15 health on hit. As a soldier you're giving up a whole rocket for that +15 health, which is huge.

[QUOTE=Wolf532;41883421]I think the bleed damage is good, the "on miss: hit yourself" isn't. A weapon shouldn't be basically the same weapon but for a different class. As for the family business, it'd need a much bigger downside than -15% damage if it's gonna get +15 health on hit. As a soldier you're giving up a whole rocket for that +15 health, which is huge.[/QUOTE] Agree with you in the Family Business. Disagree with you in the Eviction Notice. The mais thing of the "on miss: hit yourself" was to propose a better pocket Heavy playstyle, but of course this playstyle can be achieved with different stats (I just don't really know what) on a new weapon (or even in the EN itself).

heavy already is a really good pocket, mainly becasue he is a walking wall of flesh you can hide behind, but he does not ever need a way to help a medic build uber faster, especially a pocket. A good medic should be healing everyone instead of just one target.

I had an idea: red tape recorder can only delevel a building by 1 per sap and after its deleved the building cannot be sapped again by that particular spy for, iunno, 5 seconds. It doesn't punish engineers as much for leaving their nest and making it possible to deal with them without it being completely deleveled to 1.