The "Weapon Fixing Megathread" - We fix weapons' stats and get in fights - Games

[b]Heavy[/b] [b]Tomislav[/b] [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img]+15% faster spin up time [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img]+15% faster move speed while deployed [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/img]-30% slower firing speed [b]Family Business[/b] [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img]+33% clip size [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img]+30% more accurate [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/img]-15% damage penalty Set bonus: +x% faster weapon switch My idea is that these weapons increase mobility, and help the Heavy have a stronger mid-long range game. They wouldn't have as much raw damage output then a stock load-out, but be able to push faster as support gunner with the team. [b]Engineer[/b] [b]Jag[/b] [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img]+30% faster construction rate [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img]+20% faster firing speed [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/img]-35% damage penalty [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/img]-25 max health on wearer For this change, the effects of the Jag are greatly exaggerated. The Engineer can put up buildings much quicker and maintain their health, in exchange for greatly weakening the Engineer himself. The health penalty makes him much more fragile, which I think is a fair exchange for having such an increase in building rate because a dead Engineer can't defend his stuff at all. It might not be too great of a change because it encourages turtling, but I think that is what they tried to balance with the Jag, but ultimately made its effects very negligible.

[QUOTE=Zadrave;40715738]What about classes that are slower than pyro? Actually that's a lot, because if you're considering moving backwards, that makes you slower.[/QUOTE] If you played this game before you would know that being being airblasted while in the air increases your backwards momentum. Not even a heavy can be axtinguished if he jumps backwards and airstrafes. He'll be pretty hard to flare too !

[QUOTE=Not Bigode;40716141]If you played this game before you would know that being being airblasted while in the air increases your backwards momentum. Not even a heavy can be axtinguished if he jumps backwards and airstrafes. He'll be pretty hard to flare too ![/QUOTE] That guys played the game for over 2900 hours.

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;40715934]The Razorback isn't useless. It's just bad players who have no idea how to [i]use[/i] it giving it the perception of uselessness. Yes, it only impacts 1 class, but so does the Sapper. It's an item where you sacrifice universal attributes -- damage output, status debuffs, extra health, flinch resistance -- for the ability to completely screw with an enemy's ability to approach you, even more so if you're in a group and paying any attention at all. In a situation where an instant kill is important (ie Spy gets caught and needs to trickstab to stay alive, uber scenario, etc), stalling it by being in the Spy's way or by forcing him to go for a non-instant kill can mean a world of difference.[/QUOTE] Two shots by enforcer/ambassador take less than a second. So I guess that could also be classified as instant kill. Razorback isn't balanced, that is a bad thing that should be fixed, don't try and tell people otherwise, you know it's true.

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;40715934]The Razorback isn't useless. It's just bad players who have no idea how to [i]use[/i] it giving it the perception of uselessness. Yes, it only impacts 1 class, but so does the Sapper. It's an item where you sacrifice universal attributes -- damage output, status debuffs, extra health, flinch resistance -- for the ability to completely screw with an enemy's ability to approach you, even more so if you're in a group and paying any attention at all. In a situation where an instant kill is important (ie Spy gets caught and needs to trickstab to stay alive, uber scenario, etc), stalling it by being in the Spy's way or by forcing him to go for a non-instant kill can mean a world of difference.[/QUOTE] The Sapper and the Razorback just can't be compared in terms of usefulness. You just can't do it. The Sapper has, outside of MvM, no cooldown time between uses, an infinite supply, and can be used to utterly destroy a good chuck of an enemy's Sentry-nest defenses, or at the very least, force a team to walk from place to place instead of using a teleporter. The Razorback blocks a single attack, from a single weapon, from a single class, once, with no way to recharge it outside of a resupply cabinet. I concede that yes, they are both weapons that directly impact one class, but the Sapper indirectly impacts every other while the Razorback doesn't in the slightest bit.

Razorback is best used with the Huntsman. While the statement sounds wrong, it's actually true. When you're using the Huntsman, you can react to a Spy shooting you more easily. Also, when you see a Spy who's trying to stab you in the face, just jump and turn 180°. :v:

The point of the razorback isn't to make you immune to the spy, it's to make him consider ignoring you and go for a more important pick instead. It's designed for aggressive snipers that stick close to his team in mind, and it works very well. It's a very passive effect so you probably wont notice how useful it really is. Jarate is certainly stronger in many situations as an offensive tool tho.

There's a lot of talk on here about the gunslinger and mini-sentries. I personally don't think there's anything wrong with the Gunslinger but the mini-sentries could do with a little nerf, i don't think their DPS is a big deal but dealing with sentries when so close to them should be easier imo, minis makes you fight on their terms (mid to long range) with their huge pushback, if that was less I think it'd be fine.

I thought we agreed that minis need a shorter range. They're technically no roamer zones, and at this point pretty huge ones. To the point where playing a roamer class on a server with minisentries is impossible.

The liberty launcher needs some sort of nerf. I was thinking. [t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/24/Item_icon_Liberty_Launcher.png/100px-Item_icon_Liberty_Launcher.png[/t] +40% projectile speed -25% clip size -20% damage

[QUOTE=MissingGlitch;40717240]The liberty launcher needs some sort of nerf. I was thinking. [t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/24/Item_icon_Liberty_Launcher.png/100px-Item_icon_Liberty_Launcher.png[/t] +40% projectile speed -25% clip size -20% damage[/QUOTE] I'd sooner say it needs a buff. lol

[QUOTE=mySvenLabs;40717292]I'd sooner say it needs a buff. lol[/QUOTE] It's pretty much the direct hit for people that can't aim. It needs more of a downside then just 1 less rocket.

[QUOTE=MissingGlitch;40717322]It's pretty much the direct hit for people that can't aim. It needs more of a downside then just 1 less rocket.[/QUOTE] It's the default rocket launcher for people that can't aim. 1 less rocket is enough of a downside. It's true that it's easier to airshot and punish people for jumping with it regardless of skill level, but overall it's not worth the loss of burst damage. At least the Black Box makes up for that loss by allowing you to roam and be aggressive for a lot longer.

[QUOTE=mySvenLabs;40717292]I'd sooner say it needs a buff. lol[/QUOTE] I think it's fine as is. Having 1 less rocket is a HUGE downside if you think about it. That means more reloading, as well as not being able to kill as quick as other soldiers would be able to.

Guys... What if we put the Minisentry on a Timer... So you can only have one out for like a minute before it explodes?

Liberty Launcher is basically getting more rockets on target consistently in exchange for a rocket. Whether or not that was the intended purpose of the weapon, that is what it is.

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;40715934]The Razorback isn't useless. It's just bad players who have no idea how to [i]use[/i] it giving it the perception of uselessness. [/QUOTE] Spy is one of my mains, and i can't tell you how many times i've avoided snipers in a pack because he had the razorback. If you're using it on a 2fort battlement, yeah, you're hosed, but if you're in a big pack of friendlies, defending the second point of dustbowl 2 comes to mind, as a supportive sniper, a spy isn't going to go near you and risk his neck for a sniper, especially if there's other more important and easier prey about i think the problem with the razorback is that it's not that it doesn't work, it's just that it's impossible to notice when it does work, but very noticeable when it doesn't, which sort of makes me think that the danger shield was designed for lone wolf snipers in response to the razorback's perceived uselessness

[QUOTE=StormBlink;40719369]Guys... What if we put the Minisentry on a Timer... So you can only have one out for like a minute before it explodes?[/QUOTE] Personally I like setting up a mini to defend a point/the intel and then I go out in the open. I think the one minute limit would encourage the "spam" somewhat.

mini sentries are a difficult subject, but i have two ideas 1. only lasts for ~20 seconds or so [B]or[/B] 2. costs 130 metal like a regular sentry, no push force

[QUOTE=Bynine;40722576]mini sentries are a difficult subject, but i have two ideas 1. only lasts for ~20 seconds or so 2. costs 130 metal like a regular sentry, no push force[/QUOTE] Uh, that'd make mini-sentries worthless. If you make it have a time limit, it should be... Uses 50 metal to deploy. Can erect on any surface. 45 second lifespan. Think combat girls turret kitties.

I'd make mini-sentries fully vulnerable during building, decreased range but have increased damage. You have to plan ahead somewhat or cause a distraction, because if someone sees it while it's building, it's useless.

Increase the build cost to 105 metal to avoid spam, a lifespan is a bad idea if you ask me, because some people like to set it up for defense. A small one, but it still works.

[QUOTE=Dat Lobo;40722625]Uh, that'd make mini-sentries worthless. If you make it have a time limit, it should be... Uses 50 metal to deploy. Can erect on any surface. 45 second lifespan. Think combat girls turret kitties.[/QUOTE] two ideas as in two[I] separate[/I] ideas and 50 metal?! then the engineer would be hard pressed to run out of metal

[QUOTE=Bynine;40722905]two ideas as in two[I] separate[/I] ideas and 50 metal?! then the engineer would be hard pressed to run out of metal[/QUOTE] If the damn thing's gonna have such a short lifespan, then yes, 50 metal.

I don't know how applicable this could be to the Mini-sentry, but I've always thought it'd be a neat downside if it had a limited range (ie. it only fires within it's regular 80* [maybe it's more or less?] turning cycle), as well as the obvious regular (or decreased) one. This might work better for a new defentry though, and this is the wrong thread for that. :v:

Wasn't the minisentry supposed to have like 60% of the original sentry range? What happened to that?

[QUOTE=PSI Guy;40722688]I'd make mini-sentries fully vulnerable during building, decreased range but have increased damage. You have to plan ahead somewhat or cause a distraction, because if someone sees it while it's building, it's useless.[/QUOTE] I feel like two seconds to kill a 125hp class is powerful enough. Considering the reaction time of most people is 1 second. [editline]21st May 2013[/editline] Think what you would about reddit, but they came up with some neat ideas to nerf minis [url]http://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/1e5cff/has_hatred_for_mini_sentries_gone_too_far/[/url] [quote]It gets destroyed when the engineer dies, simple as.[/quote] [quote]I wish the mini sentry took 101 metal, just so the engi couldn't instantly put another sentry gun down, he at least had to go pick up a weapon. Maybe even put in the mini dispenser taking 99 metal.[/quote] ^I like this one, nerfs minis and encourages engineers to put down dispensers in a single move.

I don't see how making minis auto-destruct after a set amount of time would fix any of their problems. Their problems being that they're spammable, disproportionally difficult to take out while they're constructing, lack a proper skill/reward ratio and annoy the hell out of close range combat classes. If any sort of time limit should be implemented, I think it should be a Jarate/Sandvich style cooldown meter. It'd force the Engineer to place them tactically rather than just spam them wherever, and it would Scouts/Pyros to take him out if they get the drop on him right while he's deploying one. Hm. My last Gunslinger tweak suggestion got a bunch of negative ratings, but here's another shot, partially plagiarized from a whole bunch of ideas in this and the OWI thread. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/c/ca/Item_icon_Gunslinger.png/100px-Item_icon_Gunslinger.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/fd/Pictogram_info.png/15px-Pictogram_info.png[/IMG] (Stats unchanged unless stated otherwise). [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/fd/Pictogram_info.png/15px-Pictogram_info.png[/IMG] Replaces the Dispenser with a Mini-Dispenser. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/fd/Pictogram_info.png/15px-Pictogram_info.png[/IMG] Replaces the Teleporter Exit with a Mini-Exit [B]Mini-Sentry[/B] [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/fd/Pictogram_info.png/15px-Pictogram_info.png[/IMG] (Stats unchanged unless stated otherwise) [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG] Does not gain health during construction. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG] Can only rotate 135° in each direction (has a 90° blind spot) [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG] Shorter range, maybe? [B]Mini-Dispenser[/B] [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/fd/Pictogram_info.png/15px-Pictogram_info.png[/IMG] Functions like a thrown sandvich; can't be upgraded or repaired and doesn't provide continuous replenishing. Instead, it's consumed by walking on it. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/fd/Pictogram_info.png/15px-Pictogram_info.png[/IMG] If consumed by the Engineer who deployed it: replenishes 40 metal. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/fd/Pictogram_info.png/15px-Pictogram_info.png[/IMG] If consumed by a teammate: replenishes metal/ammo equal to a small ammo pack and health equal to a medium health pack. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG] Costs 40 metal to deploy. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG] Can't be sapped. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG] Constructs instantly. [B]Mini-Exit[/B] [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG] Costs 60 metal to deploy. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG] 5 seconds build time. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG] 5 seconds recharge time between uses (equal to a level 2 exit). [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG] No teleporter trail after use. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG] Can't be upgraded or repaired. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG] 100 health. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG] Breaks after two uses. Basically, nerf the mini-sentry but add replacements for the other buildings that better synergize with the GS engineer playstyle. Sorry about the wall of stats.

[QUOTE=Deodorant;40723752]I don't see how making minis auto-destruct after a set amount of time would fix any of their problems. Their problems being that they're spammable, disproportionally difficult to take out while they're constructing, lack a proper skill/reward ratio and annoy the hell out of close range combat classes. If any sort of time limit should be implemented, I think it should be a Jarate/Sandvich style cooldown meter. It'd force the Engineer to place them tactically rather than just spam them wherever, and it would Scouts/Pyros to take him out if they get the drop on him right while he's deploying one. Hm. My last Gunslinger tweak suggestion got a bunch of negative ratings, but here's another shot, partially plagiarized from a whole bunch of ideas in this and the OWI thread. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/c/ca/Item_icon_Gunslinger.png/100px-Item_icon_Gunslinger.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/fd/Pictogram_info.png/15px-Pictogram_info.png[/IMG] (Stats unchanged unless stated otherwise). [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/fd/Pictogram_info.png/15px-Pictogram_info.png[/IMG] Replaces the Dispenser with a Mini-Dispenser. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/fd/Pictogram_info.png/15px-Pictogram_info.png[/IMG] Replaces the Teleporter Exit with a Mini-Exit [B]Mini-Sentry[/B] [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/fd/Pictogram_info.png/15px-Pictogram_info.png[/IMG] (Stats unchanged unless stated otherwise) [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG] Does not gain health during construction. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG] Can only rotate 135° in each direction (has a 90° blind spot) [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG] Shorter range, maybe? [B]Mini-Dispenser[/B] [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/fd/Pictogram_info.png/15px-Pictogram_info.png[/IMG] Functions like a thrown sandvich; can't be upgraded or repaired and doesn't provide continuous replenishing. Instead, it's consumed by walking on it. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/fd/Pictogram_info.png/15px-Pictogram_info.png[/IMG] If consumed by the Engineer who deployed it: replenishes 40 metal. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/fd/Pictogram_info.png/15px-Pictogram_info.png[/IMG] If consumed by a teammate: replenishes metal/ammo equal to a small ammo pack and health equal to a medium health pack. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG] Costs 40 metal to deploy. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG] Can't be sapped. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG] Constructs instantly. [B]Mini-Exit[/B] [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG] Costs 60 metal to deploy. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG] 5 seconds build time. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG] 5 seconds recharge time between uses (equal to a level 2 exit). [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG] No teleporter trail after use. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG] Can't be upgraded or repaired. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG] 100 health. [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG] Breaks after two uses. Basically, nerf the mini-sentry but add replacements for the other buildings that better synergize with the GS engineer playstyle. Sorry about the wall of stats.[/QUOTE] Sorry, but the Dispenser and Telporter are crippling. Like SERIOUSLY crippling. If those stats got in, a lot of people would yell "OMG YOU ARE SO USELESS TO THE TEAM, STOP USING THE GUNSLINGER".

[QUOTE=DatWut?;40723766]Sorry, but the Dispenser and Telporter are crippling. Like SERIOUSLY crippling. If those stats got in, a lot of people would yell "OMG YOU ARE SO USELESS TO THE TEAM, STOP USING THE GUNSLINGER".[/QUOTE] Like they don't already do that. Most GS engies I see (and tbh me too, most of the time) either don't build teles/disensers at all or just build level 1 ones and leave them unattended, which is borderline pointless. When playing a combat class I very rarely find it worthwhile to stand by a level 1 dispenser, and unattended level 1 teleporter exits anywhere near the frontlines tend to be found and destroyed after 0-3 uses in my experience. I would feel more useful being able to quickly toss my teammates some health/ammo anytime and spamming stealth exits on the enemy's half of the map. I think the concept could work well. It's entirely possible that the numbers I've chosen would be horribly underpowered, though. Tweaks would be welcome. Mini-dispenser replenishes 75% health, Mini-exits recharge at the same rate as a level 3 tele? Iunno.