Major Update Speculation V16: The Monoculus RIFT Well Spun Hat Promo Edition - Games

In my opinion, no crits is an acceptable attribute for weapons that can crit in other ways. Speaking of that, WHEN THE FUCK WILL THEY ADD IT TO THE BUSHWACKA?

[QUOTE=Kapellmeister;40014715]Speaking of that, WHEN THE FUCK WILL THEY ADD IT TO THE BUSHWACKA?[/QUOTE] Never, I'm afraid.

All the weapons that don't randomly crit are the ones that crit by another stat, like frontier justice, phlogistinator, demoman melees. And it's mostly melees since melees suffer from the lack of random crits the most, and crit melees usually mean instant kill so they also tend to have crit stats. Speaking of melees, which are the most hated ones? Crit Zatoichi and Random Critwhacka. Then you have things like the enforcer which doesn't randomly crit because that would be a nuke. So I'd say slapping "no random crits" on a weapon is justified in most cases.

The only thing I think is justified would be "No random melee critical hits" when using a shield on Demo. Half-Zat + Splendid Screen + Booties = Sick OP thanks to crits. Fix that by preventing ANY melee crits with shields, and allow weapons like the Eyelander to crit without them. I think allowing Eyelander and Clad crits without a shield is fair, since without one there's absolutely no way to crit.

I crit-shoted with the flare,right NOW.

[QUOTE=Drury;40014760]Speaking of melees, which are the most hated ones? Crit Zatoichi and Random Critwhacka.[/QUOTE] I don't think the Half-Zatoichi should get the "No random critical hits" treatment. I mean, when you bring it out, you are basically restricted to [b]melee only[/b]. Not even a Buff Item, unless you decided to use it beforehand. Though, I guess the justification would be demoknights... If anything, as much as I love this following weapon, the KGB should get "No random critical hits". [b]Seven seconds of critical hits.[/b] Even if you use the time to spin-up a Minigun (minimum time of 1.54s to prepare it, weapon-switch and spin-up time combined), you can use the 5.5 seconds to pulverize any nearby enemies to pieces. [QUOTE=Everything;40014772]Fix that by preventing ANY melee crits with shields, and allow weapons like the Eyelander to crit without them.[/QUOTE] Now [b]this[/b] is actually a brilliant idea, especially on the Splendid Screen.

Restricting to melee only doesn't punish Zat/Screen/Booties users. It might as well not be there for them. It's not a hindrance in the slightest for most people who use it. Y'know, that and the fact that as long as you keep getting lucky you're essentially entirely invincible.

[QUOTE=Everything;40014645]There's a reason why "No random critical hits" is a running stat joke. It's not balancing, it's [i]lazy.[/i] It can make an otherwise interesting weapon suddenly very unappealing. In my sincere opinion, I think nearly every weapon should be able to random crit, even infinitesimally rarely.[/QUOTE] [url]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Hatless_Update[/url] There's a reason a lot of the random crit removal changes were reverted. Well, excluding the less damage factor.

[QUOTE=Everything;40014839]Y'know, that and the fact that as long as you keep getting lucky you're essentially entirely invincible.[/QUOTE] You'd have to be pretty damn lucky to pull that off. Assuming you start off with the Half-Zatoichi, you have a 15% chance of critting. If you land a critical hit, you get a ~7% chance of landing the next critical hit in a row (27.1875% ^ 2). After landing that, you get a ~6% chance of landing the third critical hit (39.375% ^ 3). Landing the fourth one would be ~7% (51.5625% ^ 4). Fifth one is ~11% (63.75% ^ 5), sixth is ~8% (65% ^ 6), seventh is ~5%. I hope I'm not doing horrible at math, and even though it's probably not likely that you'll encounter 7 enemies within 20 seconds, you'd have to be [b]really[/b] lucky to become practically invincible with it.

[QUOTE=Erfly;40014908][url]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Hatless_Update[/url] There's a reason a lot of the random crit removal changes were reverted. Well, excluding the less damage factor.[/QUOTE] > Remove useless and niche Gunslinger combo system > Allow Gunslinger to random crit > Allow Eyelander, HHHH and Clad random crits without shield > Leave the rest alone [QUOTE=AbeX300;40015006]You'd have to be pretty damn lucky to pull that off. Assuming you start off with the Half-Zatoichi, you have a 15% chance of critting. If you land a critical hit, you get a ~7% chance of landing the next critical hit in a row (27.1875% ^ 2). After landing that, you get a ~6% chance of landing the third critical hit (39.375% ^ 3). Landing the fourth one would be ~7% (51.5625% ^ 4). Fifth one is ~11% (63.75% ^ 5), sixth is ~8% (65% ^ 6), seventh is ~5%. I hope I'm not doing horrible at math, and even though it's probably not likely that you'll encounter 7 enemies within 20 seconds, you'd have to be [b]really[/b] lucky to become practically invincible with it.[/QUOTE] It's still an upward slope that even a single kill can start pushing you up very rapidly. Two swings is enough for a Scout/Engie/Spy without a crit, and with one it only takes two for every other class. I know from experience both using the combo and dealing with it that it's never as easy as you'd think to take down. 200HP is a lot for one or even several to handle, especially if it keeps coming back. Let's just say I've made enough health back from it to tank a level 2 Sentry just by killing two Scouts, a Spy, and then the Engineer next to it, [b]with only two crits involved[/b].

Remember that you get more crit chance as you deal damage

[QUOTE=Cosa8888;40015060]Remember that you get more crit chance as you deal damage[/QUOTE] I know that, hence the increased crit chance for each time I multiplied them. Sure, you get a 65% chance of critting with the weapon, but that's only after you managed to crit [b]five times in a row[/b], and hope that you can somehow land a sixth hit.

[QUOTE=AbeX300;40015109]I know that, hence the increased crit chance for each time I multiplied them. Sure, you get a 65% chance of critting with the weapon, but that's only after you managed to crit [b]five times in a row[/b], and hope that you can somehow land a sixth hit.[/QUOTE] It's still luck-based though, in other words; You get no crits whereas every corner they turn they get a crocket.

Simply adding a "No random melee crits" attribute to the shields would fix this problem entirely, as well as the Eyelander/Clad tweak I mentioned. You have to make a choice. Want random crits? Forfeit guaranteed crits. The shield becomes a sidegrade, NOT an upgrade.

While we're on the topic, I personally think the Splendid Screen is OP. While it doesn't provide the resistances the charge does, it's just pretty much easymode demoknight-wise. As small as it is, I think the screen shouldn't have any resistances at all.

I think it could be balanced by adding bullet weakness. No changes to resistances, just make it weaker to the most common enemy of the demoknight and it's perfect. A nice trade-off, dealing more damage in exchange for being more vulnerable.

[QUOTE=LightFlock;40015229]While we're on the topic, I personally think the Splendid Screen is OP. While it doesn't provide the resistances the charge does, it's just pretty much easymode demoknight-wise. As small as it is, I think the screen shouldn't have any resistances at all.[/QUOTE] An alternative method would be to have a damage range on the bash, depending on how far you are charging. It would still deal damage at all ranges, but it should be like this: Minimum Damage: 35 Maximum Damage: 70 So basically, the minimum damage is half of the maximum damage.

[QUOTE=Everything;40015245]I think it could be balanced by adding bullet weakness. No changes to resistances, just make it weaker to the most common enemy of the demoknight and it's perfect. A nice trade-off, dealing more damage in exchange for being more vulnerable.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=AbeX300;40015250]An alternative method would be to have a damage range on the bash, depending on how far you are charging. It would still deal damage at all ranges, but it should be like this: Minimum Damage: 35 Maximum Damage: 70 So basically, the minimum damage is half of the maximum damage.[/QUOTE] Both suggestions feel fair. The splendid, upon looking at the stats seems it's intended to be a "okay they don't seem to hit me as much so let's swap out resistances for other stuff" sort of shield, or you can dodge. But the fact you can hit right click standing pretty much next to someone and it'll deal a fair amount of damage, then recharge in a few seconds (using the persian) seems a little shifty to me. Maybe removing all resistances is a little too much, but you can't admit it's "perfectly balanced" as is.

[QUOTE=LightFlock;40015229]While we're on the topic, I personally think the Splendid Screen is OP. While it doesn't provide the resistances the charge does, it's just pretty much easymode demoknight-wise. As small as it is, I think the screen shouldn't have any resistances at all.[/QUOTE] Possible solutions for either of the shields.(can be mixed together): -Make both shield damage at any range. -Remove ability to rack up damage with heads from the Eyelander items (SS) -Remove the additional damage but keep the damage at any range. (SS) -Remove push force of the SS. -Shorten charge distance. (SS) [SUB]Ran out of ideas... :<[/SUB]

Changing the fundamentals of either of them is bad I think, especially when it effects other weapons. I think the focus should be this... Targe: Greater resistances in exchange for trickier offensive maneuvers that are more rewarding. Screen: Noticeable weakness to common opposition, but slight resistance to others, and more damage output potential. Targe = Skirmisher, and Screen = Berserker

[QUOTE=alpha00zero;40015356]Possible solutions for either of the shields.(can be mixed together): -Make both shield damage at any range. -Remove ability to rack up damage with heads from the Eyelander items (SS) -Remove the additional damage but keep the damage at any range. (SS) -Remove push force of the SS. -Shorten charge distance. (SS) [SUB]Ran out of ideas... :<[/SUB][/QUOTE] I like the idea of the SS being a shorter charge, but being more of a damage-based shield. [QUOTE=alpha00zero;40015356]-Remove ability to rack up damage with heads from the Eyelander items (SS)[/QUOTE] Pretty sure that's a bug/glitch.

[QUOTE=LightFlock;40015436]Pretty sure that's a bug/glitch.[/QUOTE] I think he meant "remove the ability to increase shield bash damage from the Eyelander on the Splendid Screen".

[QUOTE=AbeX300;40015444]I think he meant "remove the ability to increase shield bash damage from the Eyelander on the Splendid Screen".[/QUOTE] The SS is not supposed to increase damage as far as I know, although he might be (doubtfully) saying the complete opposite "remove the damage rank up for the eyelander while using the splendid screen". I'm not sure. I'm tired.

[QUOTE=LightFlock;40015471]The SS is not supposed to increase damage as far as I know,[/QUOTE] Source?

[QUOTE=LightFlock;40015229]While we're on the topic, I personally think the Splendid Screen is OP. While it doesn't provide the resistances the charge does, it's just pretty much easymode demoknight-wise. As small as it is, I think the screen shouldn't have any resistances at all.[/QUOTE] The Splendid Screen broke things for the Chargin' Targe as well. Pre-uber update, you [i]needed[/i] to charge the distance in order to get both the shield bash and the melee crit. After the Screen was added, all you need to do is bash into someone in order to get a melee crit. It carried over to the Targe as well. But what's inconsistent is that the screen can do bash damage at any range, it's not earned at all. So thus became a subclass that can dish out 280 damage in one fell swoop. Nothing short of a Heavy or overhealed Soldier will realistically survive that. Here's how I think it should get changed around: *Remove the crit at any range bullshit, make those crits require planning of your charges. *Allow either both shields or neither shield to do bashing at any range. All or nothing on this one. *If the above is not done, have the Screen be the one doing less damage instead of more damage. If a bash is going to be earned, it might as well be more potent than the easymode shield.

There's also an old unsolved glitch wich allows the gunslinger to store a crit ( hold m3, punch a guy of your team two times, keep holding m3, punch an ennemy once, it will be a crit )

[QUOTE=AbeX300;40015480]Source?[/QUOTE] For one thing, I'm fairly sure it's not mentioned in the attributes. If it is, then disregard this. But a: it's not in the stats or attributes, b. I don't believe it happens for the charge'n'targe and c. it seems something too strong to just be put there by valve and "forgotten about". [B]Edit[/B] 300 posts :D [t]http://i1296.photobucket.com/albums/ag9/lightflock2/confetti_zps059bc9dc.png[/t]

[QUOTE=LightFlock;40015579]For one thing, I'm fairly sure it's not mentioned in the attributes. If it is, then disregard this. But a: it's not in the stats or attributes, b. I don't believe it happens for the charge'n'targe and c. it seems something too strong to just be put there by valve and "forgotten about".[/QUOTE] Just because it's not listed doesn't mean it's not supposed to happen. That's like saying the Flare Gun isn't meant to do critical damage against burning players because that's not listed. Oh, by the way: [QUOTE=LightFlock;40015471]although he might be (doubtfully) saying the complete opposite "remove the damage rank up for the eyelander while using the splendid screen".[/QUOTE] This is what I [b]just[/b] said. [QUOTE=AbeX300;40015444]I think he meant "remove the ability to increase shield bash damage from the Eyelander on the Splendid Screen".[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=AbeX300;40015602]Just because it's not listed doesn't mean it's not supposed to happen. That's like saying the Flare Gun isn't meant to do critical damage against burning players because that's not listed. Oh, by the way: This is what I [b]just[/b] said.[/QUOTE] Oh okay, I've had the wrong end here then. It seems pretty fair if you just stop the eyelanders dealing extra damage when you use the splendid screen, although there's still the issue of how strong it is with the others (excluding claid etc.)

Isn't this a speculation thread?...