Major Update Speculation V16: The Monoculus RIFT Well Spun Hat Promo Edition - Games

[QUOTE=AbeX300;40025565]What I was saying about removing the downside from the Gas Jockey's Gear was sarcasm, in response to MissingGlitch's fraud statement that "item set with bonus only is A-OK." Of course I don't want Pyros running around being faster than Medics without bullet vulnerability.[/QUOTE] I never said that "item set with bonus only is A-OK." I only said that if you take into account with the weapons you are using. It counts as it's own downside.

-snip-

[QUOTE=MissingGlitch;40025611]I never said that "item set with bonus only is A-OK." I only said that if you take into account with the weapons you are using. It counts as it's own downside.[/QUOTE] That's like saying, "Oh, the Tank Buster doesn't need a nerf because you have one less rocket and don't have a ranged backup weapon," even though the Black Box still has one less rocket without the set, and you still have no ranged backup weapon when using the Battalion's Backup (ironically enough). Even when you have [b]both[/b] of them equipped without a hat, it's still the "one-less-rocket-no-ranged-backup" scenario. It still doesn't change the fact that there is a difference between having a hat and not having a hat. [b]Edit:[/b] Also, you're forgetting that the weapons have their own upsides as well. The downsides on the weapons are intended to balance with the upsides. They aren't meant to balance with the item sets' upsides, the item sets' downsides (being only on two item sets ever) are meant to do that job.

[QUOTE=The Calzone;40024371]So I got bored and made a list of items that could use buffs in order to spark some discussion. Since Valve evidently reads this thread if the last few updates are anything to go by I think this would be as good a time as any. The Winger: Needs to have, like, an entire new effect. As it is right now, it is a piece of shit. Sun-on-a-Stick: Incredibly situational and even then the benefit it gives is outperformed by the bat and the scattergun. Concheror: Eh I dunno it's not terribly useful compared to either of the other banners. The Detonator: Shit straight-up does not function properly. Needs to have the actual explosion fixed and the jump functionality restored. Sharpened Volcano Fragment: It is a melee-range weapon that sets things on fire. You know what else sets things on fire much better at melee range? The flamethrower. The Third Degree: Despite having no downside over the fire axe it is still incredibly useless. Needs an additional effect as a "fucking over medics" weapon like draining Uber or something. The Claidheamh Mor: Needs an additional effect to make it more useful. The charge duration buff is not enough as a standalone weapon. The Brass Beast: Currently only vaguely useful in MVM. Heavy miniguns not accurate enough to take good advantage of the damage bonus. Consider making weapon more accurate. The Tomislav: Usefulness completely ruined due to over-enthusiastic nerfing. Possibly could be saved by higher accuracy as well. The Dalokohs Bar: Outperformed by the Sandvich in every conceivable way. Rendered useless by friendly medics. Have +50 stack with overheal, perhaps have +50 last longer than 30 seconds. The Family Business: Functionally alright, but exceedingly boring. Needs additional attribute to make things more interesting. The Warrior's Spirit: Was never useful. +30% damage bonus is not worth the docked health. Needs complete rework. The Eviction Notice: In the same boat as the Family Business. Functionally decent but is exceedingly uninteresting as an unlockable alternative to the fists. Short Circuit: Firing rate needs to be increased and/or metal cost decreased in order to effectively counter rockets and sticky bombs. Jag: Building build rate increase almost unnoticeable. Needs to either be increased or the swing speed of the wrench needs to be increased. Quick-Fix: Needs to function more like it did in the beta: Quick Ubercharges with an AoE heal. Cleaner's Carbine: Interesting in concept and fun on paper but neither of those in practice. Needs firing speed penalty reduced. So yeah that's my take on what could use buffs. Thoughts?[/QUOTE] The Dalokohs Bar would be fixed if it was given a faster eating speed.

To your weapon buffs discussion: The Quick Fix can be used to considerably better effect than the stock, it just has incredibly situational uses and is mainly useful in competitive (Although nobody ever uses it in 6v6 it can be used very well in that format) as it takes skill on the part of the person being healed more so than the other mediguns. The usefulness comes in the explosive jumping being transferred to the medic, the uber isn't really important because the aggression needed to use it effectively means the other team's medic should be dead before he has an uber, and if that fails, then you can use the explosive jumping to escape an enemy uber/kritz. Still, the medigun isn't something that can be used effectively in pubs most of the time, but I don't think it's underpowered, just very very difficult to use. The mantreads are another weapon that are in need of a buff. I actually think the best buff would be to raise the knockback reduction to 100% and apply it to non damage dealing sources such as the pyro's airblast. People will complain about pyros not being able to push the soldier at all, but you are also giving up any means of dealing damage to the pyro without the chance of it being deflected. The knockback reduction on them is severely underrated and raising it to a full 100% would make the boots have a lot of utility outside of just being an offensive weapon with the rocketjumper. People might actually start using them with the stock.

Dalakohs: The additional health doesn't decay for what you don't get hit for, but you can't reset the +50HP until all of it is gone?

My Thoughts on how a few weapons could be balanced, Buffs/Nerfs are in bold: [u]The Winger:[/u] +15% damage bonus [b]+25% tighter spread[/b] [b]-30% clip size[/b] (increased from 5 to 8) [u]Sun-on-a-Stick:[/u] [b]all crits are reduced to minicrits[/b] [b]Minicrits passivley ignite enemies on other weapons[/b] While Active: [b]On Hit: target is engulfed in flames[/b] [b]minicrits vs burning players[/b] -25% damage penalty [u]Concheror:[/u] With buff, some damage - Dished out by nearby teammates - Comes back as healing [b]+50% longer buff duration[/b] [b]While Buff is active: On Kill +25 health[/b] (Allows for over healing) [u]The Detonator:[/u] Alt-Fire: Detonate flare. [b]+100% Self damage push force[/b] (means you'll fly farther) [b]+25% faster projectile speed[/b] +25% damage to self [u]Sharpened Volcano Fragment:[/u] On Hit: target is engulfed in flames [b]minicrits buring opponents[/b] -20% [b]firing speed[/b] [u]The Third Degree:[/u] All players connected via Medigun beams are hit [b]-10% damage for every other patient attached by medigun beam[/b] (first is full damage, second is 90%, third 80%, etc) [b]20% slower firing speed[/b] [u]The Claidheamh Mor:[/u] 0.5 sec increase in charge duration No random critical hits -15 max health on wearer Extended Range [b]+2 Max pipebombs out on secondaries[/b] [u]The Brass Beast:[/u] +20% damage bonus 50% slower spin up time -60% slower move speed while deployed [b]+4 extra bullets per shot[/b] [u]The Tomislav:[/u] +10% faster spin up time Silent Killer: No barrel spin sound 20% slower firing speed [b]]+25% tighter spread[/b] [u]The Dalokohs Bar:[/u] Adds +50 max health for 30 seconds [b]+30% faster consumption rate[/b] [u]The Family Business:[/u] +33% clip size -15% damage penalty [b]+15% faster weapon switch speed[/b] [u]The Warrior's Spirit:[/u] +30% damage bonus -20 max health on wearer [b]Attack speed increases for every consecutive hit[/b] (caps at six for around eviction notice speed) [b]On Kill: +10 Max Health[/b] (starting at 280 capping at 330) [u]The Eviction Notice:[/u] +50% faster firing speed -60% damage penalty [b]On Hit: 5 seconds of bleed[/b] [u]Short Circuit:[/u] On Fire: Generates an electrical field that destroys projectiles and does slight damage to players No reload necessary Per Shot: [b]-10[/b] ammo Uses metal for ammo No random critical hits [b]+5 Metal for projectile destruction[/b] [u]Jag:[/u] 30% faster construction rate [b]applies 50 metal when upgrading[/b] (up from 25) -25% damage penalty [u]Quick-Fix:[/u] ÜberCharge increases healing by 300% and grants immunity to movement-impairing effects, [b]AOE Effect healing allies with buff radius[/b] +40% heal rate +25% ÜberCharge rate Can't overheal. Move at the speed of any faster heal target [u]Cleaner's Carbine:[/u] On Kill: [b]5[/b] seconds of 100% critical chance -20% clip size [b]-15[/b] slower firing speed (lowered from 35%) No random critical hits

[QUOTE=AbeX300;40025419]In that case, lets remove the downside from the Gas Jockey's Gear, because the Pyro is more vulnerable against melee fights, and deals less damage with the flamethrower. :v:[/QUOTE] Take the downside of the Gas Jockey and move it to the Degreaser, and cue perfect balance for that. The Mannconomy sets are quite neatly balanced in my opinion.

[QUOTE=Eriorguez;40026282]Take the downside of the Gas Jockey and move it to the Degreaser, and cue perfect balance for that. The Mannconomy sets are quite neatly balanced in my opinion.[/QUOTE] And now the item set becomes unfair, unless you were to give it a different downside. [b]Not helping the case of "bonus for hat wearer, no bonus without hat" factor.[/b] But if it were to have a different downside, then I can accept the additional downside for the Degreaser.

[QUOTE=kibbleknight;40026270] [u]Sun-on-a-Stick:[/u] [b]On Hit: target is engulfed in flames[/b] 100% critical hit vs burning players -25% damage penalty [/QUOTE] What So you're suggesting giving people crits for hitting burning players with a weapon that [B]sets people on fire[/B] [sp]New stat confirmed: Guaranteed random critical hits[/sp]

check the post again, i seem to have forgotten to add the "minicrits instead of crits" edit: Here [QUOTE=kibbleknight;40026270] [u]Sun-on-a-Stick:[/u] [b]all crits are reduced to minicrits[/b] [b]Minicrits passivley ignite enemies on other weapons[/b] While Active: [b]On Hit: target is engulfed in flames[/b] [b]minicrits vs burning players[/b] -25% damage penalty[/QUOTE] makes the crit-a-cola slightly more useful, but risks the extra damage from using it, giving it some slight balancing.

You know what they should do to the tomislav? They should make it do full crits from behind and make it more accurate. I think the mobster set for the heavy inspires the heavy to be sneaky, and this would reward the heavy for waiting.

[QUOTE=kibbleknight;40026355]check the post again, i seem to have forgotten to add the "minicrits instead of crits" edit: Here makes the crit-a-cola slightly more useful, but risks the extra damage from using it, giving it some slight balancing.[/QUOTE] Guaranteed mini-crits from the second hit onwards then? Still seems a bit OP.... Maybe if the fire were delayed by a certain number of seconds where you'd have to hit, retreat, wait, then re-attack for the mini crits. Might be interesting to play with, and would give them a chance to run for health to put themselves out with. [editline]24th March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Outro-intro;40026358]You know what they should do to the tomislav? They should make it do full crits from behind and make it more accurate. I think the mobster set for the heavy inspires the heavy to be sneaky, and this would reward the heavy for waiting.[/QUOTE] Erm, no, ranged backburner for the heavy would be a no-no.

[QUOTE=kibbleknight;40026355]check the post again, i seem to have forgotten to add the "minicrits instead of crits" edit: Here makes the crit-a-cola slightly more useful, but risks the extra damage from using it, giving it some slight balancing.[/QUOTE] What about the Soda Poppers run-4-mini-crits? Infact that kind of bothers me now that I think about it. Why is it Scout can either not have a pistol and have the Crit-a-Cola which makes him take/dish out mini-crits or a gun that gives mini-crits and a pistol/Bonk!/Mad Milk with the only downside is using a Force-a-Nature with no knockback? [SUP]Edit: I have no idea what I am talking about so take all that I type with a mountain of salt.[/SUP]

[QUOTE=kibbleknight;40026270][u]Sun-on-a-Stick:[/u] [b]On Hit: target is engulfed in flames[/b][/QUOTE] JESUS CHRIST NO It's already bad enough that [i]3[/i] classes that are not Pyro can light people on fire. Let's not make it 4. If you want to put DoTs on your enemies as Scout, use the Boston Basher.

[QUOTE=Kapellmeister;40026750]JESUS CHRIST NO It's already bad enough that [i]3[/i] classes that are not Pyro can light people on fire. Let's not make it 4. If you want to put DoTs on your enemies as Scout, use the Boston Basher.[/QUOTE] Also included: Wrap Assassin and Flying Cleaver But yeah, I disagree with the "flame damage" attribute on the Sun-on-a-Stick.

What about making it critting/minicriting on mad-milked targets ? The scoutstinguisher...

[QUOTE=426_Hemi;40026809]What about making it critting/minicriting on mad-milked targets ? The scoutstinguisher...[/QUOTE] Still situational as hell, and even when the situation [b]does[/b] come, it's rather overpowered.

[QUOTE=Kapellmeister;40026750]JESUS CHRIST NO It's already bad enough that [B][i]3[/i][/B] classes that are not Pyro can light people on fire. Let's not make it 4. If you want to put DoTs on your enemies as Scout, use the Boston Basher.[/QUOTE] Solider, Heavy, and who else?

[QUOTE=BlindSniper17;40026830]Solider, Heavy, and who else?[/QUOTE] Sniper. You can light Huntsman arrows with laser weapons.

[QUOTE=Kapellmeister;40026835]Sniper. You can light Huntsman arrows with laser weapons.[/QUOTE] Oh, I thought you meant a third class that could ignite people on their own without help from others.

[QUOTE=Kapellmeister;40026835]Sniper. You can light Huntsman arrows with laser weapons.[/QUOTE] And fire, of course. But honestly, I'd count the Sniper as [b]half[/b] of the class that can ignite people; most people wouldn't even think to laser the Huntsman to set it on fire, so the main source of ignited Huntsmen would be by the Pyro itself. Unless we're talking about Medieval, but it's not like that's balanced.

[QUOTE=BlindSniper17;40026910]Oh, I thought you meant a third class that could ignite people on their own without help from others.[/QUOTE] Well, you can light people on fire without any help from a Pyro so I'd say it still counts.

[QUOTE=BlindSniper17;40026910]Oh, I thought you meant a third class that could ignite people on their own without help from others.[/QUOTE] Sniper on Degroot Keep.

[QUOTE=Erfly;40026933]Sniper on Degroot Keep.[/QUOTE] I wasn't counting that, but OK I guess.

What if you could hit bleeding allies with the sun on a stick and it heals them? Fire cauterizes wounds after all.

I hope the steampipe update will fix that annoying bug that you can't install any mods or your game will crash on server motd's.

[QUOTE=Rexic;40027493]What if you could hit bleeding allies with the sun on a stick and it heals them? Fire cauterizes wounds after all.[/QUOTE] As fascinating as that idea sounds, it'd still be pretty situational.

situational medic at the cost of your melee sounds pretty awesome

[QUOTE=Rexic;40027493]What if you could hit bleeding allies with the sun on a stick and it heals them? Fire cauterizes wounds after all.[/QUOTE] You're thinking out of the box here, which is good, but there's a reason certain things aren't in the box in the first place. The visual indicators for bleeding aren't as noticable as fire. With a bleeding player, they gush blood a little bit and flinch with pain, but that's it. On top of that, not many players are going to find themselves bleeding except for spies and the occasional guy that gets decked by an ornament. It's not a common enough thing to base a weapon around countering.