Major Update Speculation Thread XIV: Roman Numerals are the Best Edition - Games

[QUOTE=zipziggy;39830582]Shortstop is a viable sidegrade to the stock scratter because it allows you to harrash and heckel while dealing decent damage at pistol range [/QUOTE] yes to the first part, as it is my scout primary, but pistol range is pretty hard because of the spread, i tend to use it up close, more or less for guerrilla/ambush warfare, where i attack with the four shots, then dodge and go behind a wall, reload and repeat [QUOTE=zipziggy;39830582] Mad milk is one of the most powerful utilty throawbles in the game with multiple uses [/QUOTE] if you can make a hit, but then again there is no crit bonus, so its not really op, it just heals the attacker, which can make a decent offense/defense weapon, but you loose your pistol, which depending on the situation, is a serious disadvantage [QUOTE=zipziggy;39830582] Fish is a straight upgrade to the bat cause it allows you to spy check for clocked spys [/QUOTE] um... just no... only if you looking specifically for spies, and it takes way more hits to kill them unless a random crit occurs, and personally, i like using the bat or the cane way more than the fish, because i find myself in more predicaments where damage is more of a necessity than spychecking [QUOTE=zipziggy;39830582] And 150hp scouts is horribly broken and op; it needs a valid downside [/QUOTE] compared to the downsides stated before, its not really op, snipers can take them out relatively quick, and soldiers, can get rid of them so long as they know what they are up against, and if they are careless for just a moment, they can get blown up by a sticky trap but is a bit, something like +10 or 15 would work better [QUOTE=zipziggy;39830582] Imho only gas jockey is a viable but blanced set bonus[/QUOTE] this is probably one of the downsides of the set, because i NEVER see it anymore since the phlog was introduced.... ill admit, it is balanced, but its probably because the upsides aren't really incentive to use it and ive said this before... fuck the croc-o-style set, fuck your no headshots, and your fucking no skill piss gun

[QUOTE=Insaneicide;39830770] um... just no... only if you looking specifically for spies, and it takes way more hits to kill them unless a random crit occurs, and personally, i like using the bat or the cane way more than the fish, because i find myself in more predicaments where damage is more of a necessity than spychecking[/QUOTE] fish bat has no damage penalty

[QUOTE=Insaneicide;39830770]um... just no... only if you looking specifically for spies, and it takes way more hits to kill them unless a random crit occurs, and personally, i like using the bat or the cane way more than the fish, because i find myself in more predicaments where damage is more of a necessity than spychecking[/QUOTE] hold on, the fish damage != bat damage? this is news to me.

Losing the pistol with shortstop isn't such a big deal.

[QUOTE=Ac!dL3ak;39830810]hold on, the fish damage != bat damage? this is news to me.[/QUOTE] The fish is a reskin of the bat with the humiliation killfeed thing. Otherwise it is exactly the same. Sometimes considered an upgrade because it allows for Spychecking, I guess? I don't see why minor upgrades like that are so frowned upon in the first place anyway, since the idea of weapons having upgrades was one from the very first weapon update. The Ubersaw is so objectively better than the Bonesaw because, back when you could first get it, it was intended to be the prize for unlocking all of the Medic achievements. If you saw a guy with an Ubersaw, you saw a guy that played Medic with such dedication that he deserved an upgrade to his bonesaw. Nowadays people flip out if a melee weapon is very slightly objectively better than the stock. It's like, man, melee replacements were always intended to be direct upgrades stop whining so much who even cares.

there's no way you could balance stock melees. On someone like Pyro, he never used his melee, so any unlockable that offers any sort of utility at all is instantly more useful.

[QUOTE=The Calzone;39830905]The fish is a reskin of the bat with the humiliation killfeed thing. Otherwise it is exactly the same. Sometimes considered an upgrade because it allows for Spychecking, I guess? I don't see why minor upgrades like that are so frowned upon in the first place anyway, since the idea of weapons having upgrades was one from the very first weapon update. The Ubersaw is so objectively better than the Bonesaw because, back when you could first get it, it was intended to be the prize for unlocking all of the Medic achievements. If you saw a guy with an Ubersaw, you saw a guy that played Medic with such dedication that he deserved an upgrade to his bonesaw. Nowadays people flip out if a melee weapon is very slightly objectively better than the stock. It's like, man, melee replacements were always intended to be direct upgrades stop whining so much who even cares.[/QUOTE] I thought so; I personally love the fish because a) for DR spies that activate their cloak after I hit them, it doesn't say "Fish Kill", b) being hit with a fucking fish is humiliating.

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;39830939]there's no way you could balance stock melees. On someone like Pyro, he never used his melee, so any unlockable that offers any sort of utility at all is instantly more useful.[/QUOTE] As far as I can think of, the only "truly balanced" melee upgrades that I can think of are the Bushwacka, the Pain Train and the Candy Cane, since the downsides of the weapon are always "on." A Scout using a completely stock loadout vs. a Scout using the stock loadout and a Boston Basher are completely identical during regular combat since a Scout should never need to pull out his melee. Because the Boston Basher scout has a reason to use his melee for an added effect, the Boston Basher Scout is objectively more powerful than the one without because he has an additional utility with no immediate downsides. So basically the tl;dr of this is that it's cool if a melee is an upgrade to the stock because technically all melee items are upgrades in some way.

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;39830939]So any unlockable that offers any sort of utility at all is instantly more useful.[/QUOTE] Hello. [IMG]http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/1/13686/1757894-filebackpack_fan_o_war_large.png[/IMG]

[QUOTE=hawk18727;39831125]Hello. [IMG]http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/1/13686/1757894-filebackpack_fan_o_war_large.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] It's Jarate for Scout, how is that not useful

[QUOTE=Untouch;39830735]Shortstop has significantly lower DPS than the scattergun, it is a crutch. Only really OP set is the Saharan spy, but you need the l'etranger.[/QUOTE] uhhhhhh what are you talking about The shortstop shoots three times within one second; 0, 0.36, 0.72, doesn't quite hit a forth shot within a second (shoots at 1,08) The scattergun shoots two times within one second; 0, 0.625 Shortstop, 3x72 = 216 damage in a second Scattergun, 2x105 = 210 damage in a second This is at extreme close-range, the scattergun's best range, the longer the range becomes the higher the dps of shortstop becomes compared to scattergun

[QUOTE=Zadrave;39831133]It's Jarate for Scout, how is that not useful[/QUOTE] because by the time you run up to someone to hit them, you could have just 2 shot them with the scattergun

[QUOTE=Insaneicide;39830770] this is probably one of the downsides of the set, because i NEVER see it anymore since the phlog was introduced.... ill admit, it is balanced, but its probably because the upsides aren't really incentive to use it [/QUOTE] You should talk to some of the pyro mains over on spuf pyro subforums as they could explain this better than i can For them the gas jockey is the greatest thing ever since the flare gun; great synergy with pretty much every pyro secondary unlock while making the pyro better overall by increasing its ablity to attack, flank, push and retreat all that for a vunrablity agaist something that the pyro has always been inherently weak agaist

[QUOTE=Untouch;39831157]because by the time you run up to someone to hit them, you could have just 2 shot them with the scattergun[/QUOTE] Heavies. Medic combos. It just seems like a direct upgrade for me, seeing how I never use my melee as scout. Plus, mad milk with it provides a huge buff for you and your team.

Fan of war is a strategic weapon, you can't just run up to a pyro with it and hope for the best. Play scout like you'd normally do, flank them, hit the medic with it from behind and finish him off. Only then you realize how powerful it is.

[QUOTE=hawk18727;39831125]Hello. [IMG]http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/1/13686/1757894-filebackpack_fan_o_war_large.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] [quote]So any unlockable [b]that offers any sort of utility[/b] at all is instantly more useful[/quote] [editline]7th March 2013[/editline] also it's a straight upgrade in MvM

I wonder if this will have promos [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_MEFt7KrxQ[/media]

[QUOTE=HazzaHardie;39831776]I wonder if this will have promos [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_MEFt7KrxQ[/media][/QUOTE] Knowing how they have been adding promos like crazy, there might be promos for it.

Hidden Path? Absolutely

Promos for my second favorite RTS? I'm down with that(if they're made well).

Here's the proof that halloween restrictions were a bad discision. Only got 9 euros last month for my balloon. Valve doesn't make any money from the restricted items themselves.

For further absurd reference, I made 57 dollars on 7% of 25% of an unrestricted Halloween item this month holy hell. Valve, you dropped the ball.

[QUOTE=Evil_Knevil;39832040]Here's the proof that halloween restrictions were a bad discision. Only got 9 euros last month for my balloon. Valve doesn't make any money from the restricted items themselves.[/QUOTE] You can buy yourself a real balloon with that! :v:

tbh I'd go to Valve with that. Not you mind you, that might look bad, but someone else go and email them with that info. It's just ridiculous :/

I understand somethings having the Halloween restrictions. But Valve seemed to be completely random when it comes to Halloween restrictions.

[QUOTE=MissingGlitch;39832070]I understand somethings having the Halloween restrictions.[/QUOTE] I don't. Christmas Tree hat versus Balloon I'd pick the balloon to be unrestricted

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;39832054]holy hell. Valve, you dropped the ball.[/QUOTE] What? That's what I'd expect you to get for having 7% on that owl. What are you complaining about?

[QUOTE=thecuntsman;39832213]What? That's what I'd expect you to get for having 7% on that owl. What are you complaining about?[/QUOTE] In comparison to the balloon.

I realise I'm pretty late with this balance discussion but I've been sleeping because I feel awful. [QUOTE=ned_ballad;39830939]there's no way you could balance stock melees. On someone like Pyro, he never used his melee, so any unlockable that offers any sort of utility at all is instantly more useful.[/QUOTE] The solution, give pyro/medic a buff to utility and list it as a downside on all their other melees, so many weapons with the same downside might be a little generic and of course you could create others but it seems like the only true viable balance option). It's not like it's gamebreaking in any case. TF2 is fairly well balanced with respect to weapons and classes even if there are some things that don't fit. Compare this with Awesomenauts, a game we got promos for that just introduced a character you almost have to have on your team in public games to win, (and if teams are remotely balanced two competetive teams will also have to have one). This might seem similar to tf2 where team composition is a big factor but it's not even close as this game is built around 3v3. TF2 is generally pretty good at not releasing stuff so different from existing items that it breaks the entire game. This could have been the case with some of the weapons added in 2012 but even though we have notably a couple of primaries that could be considered direct upgrades to the stock, and only one that really qualifies, they don't win games by themselves. [sp]except for engies, engies are bullshit :V[/sp]

[QUOTE=Behemothbear;39832248]In comparison to the balloon.[/QUOTE] oooooooh! ha, I bet the zipperface made even less. Lesson learnt I suppose. Fingers crossed they don't make the same mistake again... I do feel bad for you, Evil. let's hope you get more items in soon.