[QUOTE=Teddi Orange;26809469]I've seen these arguments many times and what people seem to not understand is that it [B]enforces [/B]a playstyle. One that is very easy to counter.
[B]Edit:[/B] At least, the old sets were, I'm not too sure about the new ones.[/QUOTE]
I agree that weapons enforces a playstyle, the Engineer update was great for that, Gunsliger & co, offensive Engineer.
But I mean, the Bonus from the full set is something I really hate now in TF2...
I'm happy that Valve offer news weapons, but it's a bit too much for me right now, seriously, who have already tested all the first Polycount weapons ? I haven't droped the new sniper rifle or the new knife... And now, new weapons again. I don't have time to adapt the new gameplay.
(Sorry for my bad spelling)
that mann.co update is the reason i uninstalled this game im sick of getting spammed for requests for trading and the game is way to laggy with all these updates
[QUOTE=Kowalski;26809712]I agree that weapons enforces a playstyle, the Engineer update was great for that, Gunsliger & co, offensive Engineer.
But I mean, the Bonus from the full set is something I really hate now in TF2...
I'm happy that Valve offer news weapons, but it's a bit too much for me right now, seriously, who have already tested all the first Polycount weapons ? I haven't droped the new sniper rifle or the new knife... And now, new weapons again. I don't have time to adapt the new gameplay.
(Sorry for my bad spelling)[/QUOTE]
I'm not on about just the weapons, but primarily the set bonuses. People are constantly complaining "X Bonus is stupidly powerful" when in reality, it's a dumb bonus for dumb kids that think it's awesome.
I think individual poly weapons (eg Shortstop / Powerjack) need tuning. They're far too powerful and really shouldn't be the primary choice compared to vanilla / unlocked weapons.
It's pretty amazing how well Valve has kept the balance of the game with such a plethora of items; there isn't really anything overpowered and everything can be countered.
Fix crates by making them unlockable via Crate + Weapon crafting recipe
Because who needs keys when you can beat the shit out of the lock?
[QUOTE=Ian;26810139]Fix crates by making them unlockable via Crate + Weapon crafting recipe
Because who needs keys when you can beat the shit out of the lock?[/QUOTE]
Valve should do this purely so I can see a comic parody of it. It shall include a Heavy and his trusty Sandvich.
[QUOTE=Marik Bentusi;26810239]Valve should do this purely so I can see a comic parody of it. It shall include a Heavy and his trusty Sandvich.[/QUOTE]
yeah, he'll eat the sandvich then beat the lock :v:
Okay, tell me more about how Sniper and Scout will do it with their jars and drinks. :v:
[QUOTE=Mr. Kikka;26809952]It's pretty amazing how well Valve has kept the balance of the game with such a plethora of items; there isn't really anything overpowered and everything can be countered.[/QUOTE]
Backscratcher.
Amputator (Doesn't have a fucking downside at all, do they even care?)
Most melee weapons actually.
Valve isn't ruining TF2, just being a bit shrouded by greed with all the new items. Seriously? no LODs? And the absurd polygon counts on some hats/miscs really cause framerate hits for some people.
[QUOTE=Marik Bentusi;26810343]Okay, tell me more about how Sniper and Scout will do it with their jars and drinks. :v:[/QUOTE]
sniper use the jar to piss in cause he's too much of a damn pussy
the scout will drink the drink. Hm... i dunno, what people do with drinks? :downs: or he will then break the lock
[QUOTE=Shibbey;26810427]Backscratcher.
Amputator (Doesn't have a fucking downside at all, do they even care?)
Most melee weapons actually.[/QUOTE]
Backscratcher in Medieval Mode is :argh:
[QUOTE=Ian;26810139]Fix crates by making them unlockable via Crate + Weapon crafting recipe
Because who needs keys when you can beat the shit out of the lock?[/QUOTE]
Hey I have an Idea!
what you could use a Weapon with a Crate?, like a special crafting Recipe?.
You could break the lock with any weapon and get one of the items it contains except the Unusual hats, because, the are so delicate if you were to force the lock with one of your overpowered Mann Co. brand Weapons you would damage them and they'd loose their usual properties and revert to their lesser, but still prized, normal selves. This, I surmise, would give Crates a use for normal Players who don't want to buy anything but still provide that little bonus for People who buy Keys.
So people with no Money don't have useless Crates clogging up their inventory and people who pay have a [I][U]chance[/U][/I] to get something special.
[B]EVERYBODY WINS!.[/B]
Nope, because for one you would be able to get a hat with just one weapon (which is ridiculous), and crates can already be crafted for metal, so your argument about them "clogging up the inventory" is irrelevant.
[QUOTE=Tabarnaco;26810756]Nope, because for one you would be able to get a hat with just one weapon (which is ridiculous), and crates can already be crafted for metal, so your argument about them "clogging up the inventory" is irrelevant.[/QUOTE]
can they?, i did not know this.
I haven't tried it myself but I've been hearing that.
Lies, I just tried it.
I [i]do[/i] wish that keys dropped (maybe as rare as hats or something) or could be crafted (as long as the recipe is expensive).
[editline]19th December 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=goon165;26810813]Lies, I just tried it.[/QUOTE]
Three crates, not two.
[QUOTE=Tabarnaco;26810816]I [i]do[/i] wish that keys dropped (maybe as rare as hats or something) or could be crafted (as long as the recipe is expensive).
[editline]19th December 2010[/editline]
Three crates, not two.[/QUOTE]
still said no recipe.
Oh well, guess I was lied to.
All that I believe needs fixing is for keys to be droppable, some weapons balanced, and set bonuses not need hats.
[QUOTE=Shibbey;26810427]Backscratcher.
Amputator (Doesn't have a fucking downside at all, do they even care?)
Most melee weapons actually.[/QUOTE]
To me, the backscratcher is the worst pyro melee.
I tried playing with it for about 2 hours and realised how bad it was.
Being healed by a medic is worse than being healed by a level 1 dispenser, picking up health kits feels the same as before. I'd rather use the powerjack to get health from enemies.
[QUOTE=Shibbey;26810427]Amputator (Doesn't have a fucking downside at all, do they even care?)[/QUOTE]
The downside is not being able to use the ubersaw.
Just kidding.
I feel that TF2 has been in decline since the Sniper vs Spy update. Ever since they integrated the drop system, players' focus has slowly changed to collecting hats and weapons, and Valve's focus has changed to milking that as much as they can.
It got much worse when crafting and trading was introduced. Suddenly, server chat is "WILL TRADE TWO SHITTY LOOKING HATS FOR ANOTHER SHITTY LOOKING HAT", rather than actual strategizing. Now there's all this "metal" floating around, and in order to get even a specific weapon, you have to surrender tens of your other items.
The Polycount update really cinched it. Don't have the time to waste dozens of hours of your life playing the game just to hope that one cool new weapon drops for you? Pay Valve! (Oh, and before someone goes "hurr durr you don't need the new weapons", well yeah you kind of do. Some of these weapons are straight upgrades and a lot of them are made to counter others, etc) And now you couldn't even get these weapons by achievements. Just to give the community one last kick in the crotch, Valve introduced item set bonuses so that you NEEDED hats to get certain gameplay advantages. And how do you get those hats? Why, paying Valve of course!
This update just reminded me how the game's gone down the shitter. I joined a server, suddenly it's some medieval mode crap and medics are taunting and exuding some healing aura whilst everyone else runs around with their melee/low-tech weapons only. This isn't even TF2 any more. It hasn't been TF2 for some time.
I mean, fuck, people complain about Sony ruining that Star Wars MMO and Planetside? They haven't got shit on Valve. And when I see people complaining about Activision releasing a Call of Duty a year, I just shake my head... at least 60 dollars there gets you a whole slew of new content, without changing anything you liked in the last game. What does 60 dollars get you in TF2? ~3 hats.
Oh yes, and the art style deserves special attention, I think. It used to be a highly stylized, very simplistic-yet-charming. Now we have Demomen with afros and weird-ass glasses wielding swords and shields and medics wielding crossbows and releasing some glowing red healing aura. Going through the Developer Commentary is just depressing, it really shows you how hypocritical Valve has become.
I'm wordering if I'm one of the only people who feels the game just keeps getting better and better. The art style needs work though :|
[img]http://filesmelt.com/dl/Stickbomb.png[/img]
this is the most fun tf2 has ever been.
^ Was playing in above game, It is the most fun I've ever had in TF2. Full stop.
That stick grenade is the reward for the EA style microtransation crazyness.
[QUOTE=Kowalski;26809243]Everything is good in their update, except.
[b]BONUS SET[/b]
It's just something unbalanced, seriously, the Spy cannot be hear [b]Using a set which makes cloaking REQUIRED to survive.[/b], the Scout is powerfull [b]Using shit weapons[/b], the Sniper can't be killed by a headshot [b]HE CAN'T DO HEADSHOTS EITHER[/b] and in a duel, he'll kill you before by bodyshooting you if you have the reflex to aim the head.
For me, the kind of "bonus set" ruins the game and are only for kind of new players... The Croc-o-style is the perfect example, no headshot, only for bodyshotters... I really hate thoose... :saddowns:[/QUOTE]
[editline]20th December 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=goon165;26810642]Hey I have an Idea!
what you could use a Weapon with a Crate?, like a special crafting Recipe?.
You could break the lock with any weapon and get one of the items it contains except the Unusual hats, because, the are so delicate if you were to force the lock with one of your overpowered Mann Co. brand Weapons you would damage them and they'd loose their usual properties and revert to their lesser, but still prized, normal selves. This, I surmise, would give Crates a use for normal Players who don't want to buy anything but still provide that little bonus for People who buy Keys.
So people with no Money don't have useless Crates clogging up their inventory and people who pay have a [I][U]chance[/U][/I] to get something special.
[B]EVERYBODY WINS!.[/B][/QUOTE]
1 refined + crate and that's a good idea.
Let me just make a list of things here.
The original game took very delicate practices with determining the artstyle and silhouettes. The addition of hats at first didn't mess with these silhouettes or the artstyle, but over time we're getting paints, floating particles that get in the way of everything, dr suess hats, ect.
Each update bears several graphical glitches, the last update had a two headed pyro, and now the Holy Mackeral looks like a rope and the Loch n Load has a very weird looking reload. Not to mention how almost none of the new weapons have a kill icon. Very unprofessional for a game that initially had professional designing.
Balance has been thrown out the window. Generic effects are being put on new items, essentially breaking the variety with certain classes IE LnL - DH, CaC - Steak. Not to mention all the flat upgrades that some weapons are like the new bonesaws and axes.
The game has a variety of items, you can no longer just look at a class and assume what they can do, because there's a high chance they have a different loadout than what you expect.
Valve is barely putting work into the game anymore. Every update now features more community content than Valve made content.
Overall, TF2 went from a game that was simple, all about it's balance, simplicity, and artstyle. Now all of those original objectives have been thrown out the window. The game is something completely different. Many people will dispute the changes aren't bad, but it's all a matter of opinion. But anyway you look at it, Team Fortress 2 is not Team Fortress 2.
The game itself is still simple. The items that you can gain via various means [B]enforce[/B] a playstyle. If you return to stock weapons (ie before unlocks) and play with those for a few [B]days[/B], you'll (possibly) rediscover what feats you can do with those items, and that any items after really don't enhance how you play at all, apart from a few which are actually credible (eg Ubersaw, Wrangler).
Do I agree this game has needless shit in that I don't need to see? Yes, it does and yes it does annoy me. Has the fundamentals of this game changed like everyone is complaining about? No. If anything they've enhanced it (Payload, Arena (to a lesser degree), Medieval).
TF2 is still as it was (bar a few minor tweaks here and there through fixes and updates, and by that, I mean changes such as Dem/Sol grenades/rockets reduced from 6 to 4, etc).
[QUOTE=postmanX3;26810984]It got much worse when crafting and trading was introduced. Suddenly, server chat is "WILL TRADE TWO SHITTY LOOKING HATS FOR ANOTHER SHITTY LOOKING HAT", rather than actual strategizing. Now there's all this "metal" floating around, and in order to get even a specific weapon, you have to surrender tens of your other items.[/quote]
Crafting was there so long before trading, I don't know why you're putting them together. I completely agree about trading being annoying when people don't do anything and just repeatedly write WTT THIS HAT, but if you were there before trading arrived people were demanding it all the time. So, blame the community.
[QUOTE=postmanX3;26810984]Oh, and before someone goes "hurr durr you don't need the new weapons", well yeah you kind of do. Some of these weapons are straight upgrades and a lot of them are made to counter others, etc[/quote]
Disagree. I mostly use the stock weapons and I'm frequently in the top 3 players on my team. I only use the Mad Milk for Medieval. Most of the new items are situational. You can't use Your Eternal Reward if there's a sentry on the opposing team, for example that's suicide. The Holy Mackerel doesn't do anything special (stats-wise). The Pyro set is the only one that might be necessary for some people, the Degreaser is better if you only use the Axtinguisher (but if you're good with the normal Flamethrower already you shouldn't be at much of a disadvantage), and the Powerjack is the best weapon for melee-only/medieval. But other than that, you don't really need all those weapons.
[QUOTE=postmanX3;26810984]And now you couldn't even get these weapons by achievements.[/quote]
Well duh, they're community items. They can be crafted.
[QUOTE=postmanX3;26810984]Just to give the community one last kick in the crotch, Valve introduced item set bonuses so that you NEEDED hats to get certain gameplay advantages. And how do you get those hats? Why, paying Valve of course![/quote]
Or crafting them (there are specific craft recipes for each of them), or trading, or random drops. JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE OPTION OF SPENDING MONEY DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT IS THE ONLY VIABLE ONE.
The new sets don't require hats. Valve has learned.
[QUOTE=postmanX3;26810984]This update just reminded me how the game's gone down the shitter. I joined a server, suddenly it's some medieval mode crap and medics are taunting and exuding some healing aura whilst everyone else runs around with their melee/low-tech weapons only. This isn't even TF2 any more. It hasn't been TF2 for some time.[/quote]
Oh okay, so a new game mode completely ruins TF2 for you? You don't need to play it, change servers if you don't like it. I strongly believe that you're part of a minority in this case. It's like complaining about not liking maps x and y and claiming that Valve ruined TF2 by putting them in the game or something.
[QUOTE=postmanX3;26810984]I mean, fuck, people complain about Sony ruining that Star Wars MMO and Planetside? They haven't got shit on Valve. And when I see people complaining about Activision releasing a Call of Duty a year, I just shake my head... at least 60 dollars there gets you a whole slew of new content, without changing anything you liked in the last game. What does 60 dollars get you in TF2? ~3 hats.[/quote]
At least you don't have to buy those hats. They're completely cosmetic. Weapons are cheaper and you don't need to buy them either. Everything related to the gameplay is free. Completely free. And has been for three years. People talking about hats being more expensive than map packs aren't making a good argument, because those hats don't change anything with the way you play the game, and are available by other means.
With the notable exceptions of the Mann Co. Cap, the Halloween hats and promotional ones (but those don't count). But they're cosmetic, so who cares.
I think the reason why hats are so expensive is that if they were cheap, everybody would buy them and they would have no value anymore. I mean, the game is flooded with hats already, so making them available at a low price would make it even worse, especially with new hats.
[QUOTE=postmanX3;26810984]Oh yes, and the art style deserves special attention, I think. It used to be a highly stylized, very simplistic-yet-charming. Now we have Demomen with afros and weird-ass glasses wielding swords and shields and medics wielding crossbows and releasing some glowing red healing aura. Going through the Developer Commentary is just depressing, it really shows you how hypocritical Valve has become.[/QUOTE]
There's a French proverb that says "Il n'y a que les imbéciles qui ne changent pas d'avis", which roughly translates to "Only fools don't change their opinions". It's been three years since they've made their commentary. The character silhouettes are still easily recognizable, most of what they said is still applicable. They have added paint, hats and other such things to customize your character that don't necessarily fit the TF2 "art style" or environment, and now even some weapons don't really fit, that I will admit. But honestly, TF2 isn't a serious game. It's just fun. People made it super serious by making a big deal out of hats and unusuals and misc. items, trading being partly to blame for it. But goddamn, I for one don't care if the guy who just killed me is wearing flashy pink bunny ears, I'm playing TF2 to have fun, not to judge its historical accuracy. The mere fact that you play as nine dramatically different-looking, different-acting, characters from different countries is pushing the setting. I don't think it should be such a big deal. The only complaint about the style that I can agree with is the unusual particle effects, which are distracting in some situations. Then again, easy targets, right?
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