The "Valve have/haven't ruined the game" thread - Games

[QUOTE=OH-SNAP!;26815876]What I think Valve should do. Delete Vintage item status Make Mann Co. Store prices reasonable Test [u]all[/u] of the weapons before releasing an update Make their own Goddamn weapons, instead of relying on the community to do their work[/QUOTE] They've gone a [I]little[/I] overkill on the whole "give the community more control".

[QUOTE=A B.A. Survivor;26815926]They've gone a [I]little[/I] overkill on the whole "give the community more control".[/QUOTE] The community is pretty much making the game now. :sigh:

valve should just say fuck it and tie everything to achievements. my life would be 20x better.

[QUOTE=TacoMuffin;26815074]Only thing I don't get is why they added medieval style weapons/map in a game set in the 1950s. Other than the fact that that doesn't make sense, the update was good.[/QUOTE] It's called "Degroot Keep" We all know that the Demomans' last name is Degroot. Everything ties together some how, because Tavish, erm I mean, The Demoman is insanely rich. Anyway, Medieval mode is a fun gimmick, and the old tounge talk is funny. [editline]20th December 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=EvilShadow777;26815901]But that makes sense though! And requires effort! I mean really, that's completely unreasonable! No game company does such a thing![/QUOTE] Valve did it just fine untill this year. I believe all of this started when valve made new hats, just to figure out that some modders had already made the same hats. Thats the tying point of when the community began to make community items. It started with hats, then eventually lead to weapons.

People just need to calm the fuck down. Its a game. You dont like it, tough. Whining wont do anything and nobody cares if your uninstalling the game. The changes might not be good, and TF2 might be heading in the wrong direction, but instead of just whining and making countless pointless threads, just keep your mouth quiet if you dont have anything useful to say and thank VALVe for the 3 years of entertainment TF2 gave you, which i can assure you is much more than any other game. (Except probably WoW)

This whole Christmas pack is just a buncha of shitty stats and new models (See: fists of steel) that drastically (see: that fucking instakill japanese WWII grenade thing the demo has) change the game and make it less of a team effort and more of a "hay guaize imba gon camp up here till tehy cum in so i can 1 hit tehm all!11 xDDDD" I've been a fan of TF2 since '08, and while I accepted the weapons with all their quirks and bugs, this is just shitting everywhere. Thankfully, this isn't the only game that Valve made and hopefully they'll fix all this because if they didn't, they would lose the one thing that people loved them for: their community. Which coincidentally, if they didn't have, then we wouldn't have this entire thing in the first goddamn place! I love Valve for all their creativeness, community love, and their fun games. But I honestly can say that Team Fortress 2 is getting really, really fucking imbalanced. tl;dr: Valve's cool, this shit sucks, add a gamemode that uses the stock weapons only

[QUOTE=Goldsonic55;26819787](see: that fucking instakill japanese WWII grenade thing the demo has)[/QUOTE] It's actually German. Anyway: I actually like the new weapons, and the Caber only does about 180 damage, not including the 100 damage to yourself plus the fall damage.

I wish they make the sandman the way it used to be

[QUOTE=G-Strogg;26806760]Ok sorry but I really oppose the road Valve has taken with TF2 and if I could play 2007 TF2 again i would rebuy the game 3 times ok thank you very much.[/QUOTE] Buy it for xbox then

I've grown to like this new update. I like the weapons, they are cool, the hats are well made. Crates are just a tiny way to make a little bit of dosh.

fixing the broken page numbas

I'm going to go play some TF2. I'm going to have fun. NOT A S SINGLE ONE OF YOU CAN STOP ME SO I ASK YOU THIS! Why bother trying to argue with people over this, if people like tf2 as it is now nothing you can say will change your opinion. It also begs the question that if you hate it so much why do you even bother acknowledging and justifying it by arguing in the tf2 section. Just go away and leave us people who want to have fun alone.

[QUOTE=postmanX3;26814248] And I keep saying "takes dozens of items," "requires rare items," "requires real money," and "requires tons of playtime", respectively. [/QUOTE] Most weapons take less than 12 weapons to craft. You only need "rare items" to trade if you're trading for a rare item. Also, literally every game in existence requires time investment to unlock content, increase skill, plot progression, etc.

I'll chime in and say something. Fuck item set bonuses. Like the Spy's bonus, it should be embedded in the YER only, not the item set.

I like TF2 the way it is. More content, more fun.

Know what valve should do? Vanilla set bonus: +5% chance of random critical

IS it me or the overall community outrage on previous sets made Valve release utterly SHITTY set effects this time around? i mean,the set bonuses don't even come CLOSE to the ones from the 1st polycount release... and the only thing different from the 1st release are that the sets don't require hats....hats...oooh clever Valve...

[QUOTE=Shwig;26832036]IS it me or the overall community outrage on previous sets made Valve release utterly SHITTY set effects this time around? i mean,the set bonuses don't even come CLOSE to the ones from the 1st polycount release... and the only thing different from the 1st release are that the sets don't require hats....hats...oooh clever Valve...[/QUOTE] It's that thing where everyone is angry no matter what they do, just this time the anger is legitimate because everything they're doing is terrible.

Considering they gave all the players the spy set in the beta I'm assuming they're trying to make them more balanced.

[QUOTE=Shwig;26832036]i mean,the set bonuses don't even come CLOSE to the ones from the 1st polycount release... [/QUOTE] I actually like some of the set bonuses this time around. The +1hp regen on medic has saved me from dying from afterburn or bleed so many times.

[QUOTE=wari65;26832175]I actually like some of the set bonuses this time around. The +1hp regen on medic has saved me from dying from afterburn or bleed so many times.[/QUOTE] okey but you have to agree that demoman and heavy set is severely underpowered.. the items are versatile and overall useful,yes,but the overall buff is crap. i would understand if heavies +5% crit damage resistance would allow him to survive spies backstab with 5-9 hp and demoman didn't had that stupid 25% more damage to self debuff,but they just don't.

Eh, I don't see what's the idea behind giving somebody a set bonus because he wears two items together (see: Medic). It's too few items to speak of a real set, I don't see any combined strategy that can be achieved with all the weapons used together (Soldier's set for example is supposed to make Sentry Takedowns easier) and Item Sets just prevent people from coming up with interesting combinations. The real problem is that Valve, even if they deem some things a mistake, can only make minor adjustments or people will want their money back. That's a huge downside from the store. I mean, imagine they take away the hat requirement for the old sets or better yet just abandon the set idea. No fucking way the community would keep calm about this.

[QUOTE=Tabarnaco;26815408]All the classes function pretty much the same way as they initially did. They have the same type of primary weapons and the same roles in the team as they always did. The developers just expanded the possibilities in playstyles with the new items.[/quote] But in entirely unnecessary and complex ways. When I see a demoman, I should be able to assume that he'll start shooting grenades at me, so I can start dodging around him. Now, a demoman could just as likely run up and attempt to chop my head off. Aside from making [i]no sense,[/i] it overcomplicates the gameplay. It was fun when it came out, wasn't it? Do you really feel that it's more fun when everyone is running around wielding weapons that completely go against what the class is supposed to be doing? [quote]And again, since you don't seem to read what I say, weapons are worthless after a few weeks and all you have to do is play one fucking hour, get one fucking weapon, and trade it for one other fucking weapon if you want a different one. There, done, you've got your weapon. If you're lucky you can even ask your friends or even some random server for dupes. Players should [i]not[/i] get everything instantly. It wouldn't work. It would be way too hard to manage and get used to.[/quote] I only wish it was that easy. If this were the case, the million-and-a-half jarates I have would be other weapons. Nobody wants the most common weapons, and they're, you know, the most common. [quote]Then stop playing the game if you don't care to play it! You shouldn't get weapons if you don't want to play![/quote] I have stopped playing the game. I'm just saying I wish I could go back and enjoy 2007 TF2 again. [quote]"Significantly" as in what, level 2, 3? I played 60+ hours and my highest level is 4 with Medic and Sharpshooter, 2 and 3 with everything else. Maybe I suck or something, but the amount of headshots you need for level 4 and 5 is kind of ridiculous. You have to play much more to be good in Killing Floor (because you actually get improvements, not sidegrades) than in TF2.[/quote] Significantly as in 3 or 4 in pretty much all perks, yes. The biggest difference is that dropping in for one half-hour match puts you a step closer to the next level, and furthermore you don't need to be super-leveled to play the damn game. You can just slide down to a lower difficulty level, whereas in TF2, you can't go to a no-items server. [quote]If you don't play you shouldn't get those weapons, I don't believe "I don't have the time" is a good argument for you considering what you previously said.[/quote] Fair enough, but my point isn't really that I should get all the items, it's that the items shouldn't exist in the first place. [quote]Who made Deus Ex 2 is completely relevant, what the hell are you talking about? The TF2 team has been monitoring players and their reactions, listening to the community and playing the game themselves when they made their modifications to the game. They've been involved from the very beginning and are still here.[/quote] And what? You think they handed development of 2 over to a company and completely disregarded any input from critics/fans about the first game? It was a new studio, but some of the original's developers were carried over, and you can bet they took a lot of the input in. (They just interpreted it the wrong way, much like the TF2 team seems to be doing.) [quote]Well for one it's an arcade game primarily so that would be pretty hard. And their Super versions are modifications and additions, people like them. :downs:[/quote] Again, arcade or otherwise is fairly irrelevant. The concept is the same. PFFFTTT HAHAHAHA people do NOT always like the Super versions. I mean, off the top of my head famed Ryu player Daigo is giving up Ryu because anti-projectile attacks have been super-buffed for the third iteration of Street Fighter IV. [quote]II definitely, III I've never even seen people playing it. More like because they've been playing them for years and Street Fighter doesn't have sequels every year.[/quote] III is still fairly popular, especially among particularly "hardcore" players, because it's one of the most technical Street Fighters. Please don't argue something you clearly don't know much about. [quote]Just because you don't want to play the damn game doesn't mean it requires "inordinate time or money investment". It takes a few hours to get new weapons, assuming you don't try to get them immediately after they're released. Between the random drops, crafting and trading, it's incredibly easy to obtain what you want, much easier than it used to be before trading. Considering all unlockables are meant to be sidegrades, you don't even need to get them, you can just play with the stock ones and win easily. And if someone's giving you trouble, change classes. If a Heavy has the new Minigun and keeps killing you, go Spy, backstab him. I said that before, and you didn't answer me, maybe you're just bad at the game, in which case it's your fault, not the game's. I fucking suck at Street Fighter because I never play it. I fucking sucked at TF2 when I started. Now I'm good, because I play it regularly. Don't have the time to play? Don't feel like playing? Don't play it.[/quote] Let me get this to you: I don't play the game. Period. I gave up ages ago, and try begrudgingly to give it another chance with every new update. Playing and learning to play TF2 is different from the excessive amounts of time you need to play in order to get items. I used to be able to just play casually, and be fairly good at it, while also being on an equal playing field with everyone else. That is [b]not possible[/b] any more. [quote]Well then what you said about random craft recipes has absolutely nothing to do with this debate, because everything you're complaining about is possible to obtain specifically with crafting.[/quote] My point was that every way of obtaining items is directly or indirectly random. [quote]You're better off playing single player games. From what you're saying it just seems like you expect TF2 to give you everything because you don't feel like earning the new items by playing. It seems clear to me that you're not having fun with the game, and if you don't enjoy the changes, it's better for you that you stop playing, at least until they add a vanilla mode if they ever do it.[/QUOTE] I stopped playing. I STOPPED PLAYING. OK? CLEAR? Good. I don't want TF2 to give me all the items. I don't want TF2 to give me any items. I don't want TF2 to give anyone any items. I don't think we need items. MAYBE (and that's a BIG maybe) a second primary weapon for every class to mix things up a bit, but I sincerely do not understand why we need all these items.

[QUOTE=postmanX3;26833516]Significantly as in 3 or 4 in pretty much all perks, yes. The biggest difference is that dropping in for one half-hour match puts you a step closer to the next level, and furthermore you don't need to be super-leveled to play the damn game. You can just slide down to a lower difficulty level, whereas in TF2, you can't go to a no-items server.[/quote] Good thing you don't need to since unlockable weapons are fucking sidegrades and not upgrades, as opposed to Killing Floor. Can you go to a no-attachments server in Call of Duty? If not, that's worse. [QUOTE=postmanX3;26833516]Please don't argue something you clearly don't know much about.[/quote] Then don't compare Team Fortress 2 to Street Fighter, smartass. Especially considering that Street Fighter and TF2 are substantially different games catering to much different audiences. [QUOTE=postmanX3;26833516]Playing and learning to play TF2 is different from the excessive amounts of time you need to play in order to get items. I used to be able to just play casually, and be fairly good at it, while also being on an equal playing field with everyone else. That is [b]not possible[/b] any more.[/quote] Of course it's not possible if you stopped playing it. Everybody else got better and you got worse, especially if you don't know how to adapt your strategy to the new weapons. :downs: [QUOTE=postmanX3;26833516]I stopped playing. I STOPPED PLAYING. OK? CLEAR? Good.[/quote] You said that three or four times, but only in this post.

The more I play it the more I'm starting to hate the current TF2. Uninstalled to get space for something more fun.

[QUOTE=Tabarnaco;26834046]Good thing you don't need to since unlockable weapons are fucking sidegrades and not upgrades, as opposed to Killing Floor. Can you go to a no-attachments server in Call of Duty? If not, that's worse.[/quote] Firstly: some of the weapons (especially ones from this recent update) pretty much are straight upgrades. Secondly: the sidegrades are often designed to counter basic weapons or other sidegrades, so ultimately you're already at a disadvantage if you don't have access to a fairly expansive arsenal. Killing Floor is also a co-op game so upgrades are entirely alright, and difficultly levels mean than anyone can play through a whole match, regardless of how many hours they've put into the game. I never said Call of Duty was more balanced, I only said that its progression system was ultimately better designed. [quote]Then don't compare Team Fortress 2 to Street Fighter, smartass. Especially considering that Street Fighter and TF2 are substantially different games catering to much different audiences.[/quote] Gameplay wise, yeah they're different games. But game design is nearly universal. TF2 and SF are both highly popular, highly competitive multiplayer games and therefore good game design is consistent between the two, even if the specifics vary greatly. The idea of offering alternatives as opposed to outright replacements is good design in that everyone who's unhappy with an update can simply revert to a previous version. [quote]Of course it's not possible if you stopped playing it. Everybody else got better and you got worse, especially if you don't know how to adapt your strategy to the new weapons. :downs:[/quote] But to need to constantly adapt to new weapons with every single update? I don't even know what half the fucking guns do any more. And I can't just pull the correct counter out of my ass because I don't have it. I'm no longer on an equal playing field with everyone else, and it's just not conducive to enjoyable competitive play. [quote]You said that three or four times, but only in this post.[/QUOTE] [quote=postmanX3] especially since I gave up playing TF2 regularly quite some time ago. [/quote] Hmmm? (From my second post)

[QUOTE=postmanX3;26834793]I never said Call of Duty was more balanced, I only said that its progression system was ultimately better designed.[/quote] Even though a new player with no COD point is at a disadvantage against someone with a custom class and the best perks and attachments? Nope, you'll need to explain that better. You still need to play the game to be good at it, so it's still a waste of time! [QUOTE=postmanX3;26833516]Gameplay wise, yeah they're different games. But game design is nearly universal.[/quote] How? TF2 is an online first-person shooter that's completely different from even other online first-person shooters. Street Fighter is a conservative fighting game that barely changes anything besides adding new characters gameplay-wise in its sequels. They are obviously played by completely different people and what you're saying is like claiming that a kids game should be designed the same way as adult-only horror games or something. Maybe I don't understand your point, but what you're saying is incredibly vague and doesn't make much sense. [QUOTE=postmanX3;26833516]TF2 and SF are both highly popular, highly competitive multiplayer games and therefore good game design is consistent between the two, even if the specifics vary greatly.[/quote] Hahaha no, popularity and the fact that they can be played online (which isn't even a big part of Street Fighter) aren't decisive factors, or at least not the only ones. Highly competitive, don't make me laugh. TF2 is only played competitively because people wanted it to be competitive, and it's far from being as competitive as Street Fighter is. Besides, competitive TF2 players mostly only use the stock weapons, so if anything that disproves your point about "straight upgrades". [QUOTE=postmanX3;26833516]The idea of offering alternatives as opposed to outright replacements is good design in that everyone who's unhappy with an update can simply revert to a previous version.[/quote] I don't understand what you mean by that, but if you want to play vanilla, play in or host a vanilla server. That's not hard to do. [QUOTE=postmanX3;26833516]But to need to constantly adapt to new weapons with every single update? I don't even know what half the fucking guns do any more.[/quote] Your damn fault, do I whine about not knowing shit about Street Fighter? I don't even know how to do charged combos. It's not your game, that's all, doesn't mean it's a bad game. [QUOTE=postmanX3;26833516]And I can't just pull the correct counter out of my ass because I don't have it. I'm no longer on an equal playing field with everyone else, and it's just not conducive to enjoyable competitive play.[/quote] [i]Again[/i], maybe you're just bad, I win easily with stock weapons. I change classes if someone's giving me a hard time.

Perhaps they could change it so that item sets don't require hats?

The new sets already don't require hats. Which I find a bit ridiculous considering they now only consist of two items, hardly worth being called a "set" in my opinion.

Why the fuck did they decide to make some weapons exclusive to crates?