[QUOTE=Tabarnaco;26835951]The new sets already don't require hats. Which I find a bit ridiculous considering they now only consist of two items, hardly worth being called a "set" in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
But then the effects are hardly worth being called "bonuses"
What really bothers me is the sheer ammount of items, at first they were good, all of those class updates gave you new ways as how you could play the game, but now, it has come to a ridiculous point, theres way too many stuff that they keep adding while they don't seem to bother to balance other stuff, and as someone pointed out, most weapons are just plain upgrades from their vanilla counterpart.
But the biggest issue is the fact you need to have a hat to receive the set bonus, I'd rather have no bonus them that, hats are rarer them weapons, and that just means people who buy the items are getting an unfair advantage.
I don't agree with the "too much stuff" argument completely.
For me, new weapons are always welcome, no matter how ridiculous, stupid, or imbalanced. I'm really getting sick of all these hats though.
[editline]20th December 2010[/editline]
However, for the love of God, Valve, go back and polish the weird visuals with new things. It's not just a splinter in our hand or a thorn in our side anymore, Valve. [highlight]It's a fucking railroad spike through our heads.[/highlight]
Let me make a summery of the years people complained about TF2
2007: Demoman's OP pls nerf
2008: Achievement items are hard to get pls nerf
2009: I can't get hats pls make a way go get hats without idling!!
2010: Wtf i have to BUY things now?? even tho i can still get them via drop/craft, im still COMPLAINING ABOUT ppl USING MONEY
People went from complaining about gameplay mechanics to complaining cosmetic stuff that don't do anything
Well to that I say
I really think the New Bonesaw needs a con, I think the Powerjack needs another con besides no crits, I think the New Demoman Sword needs a faster charge rate, ect.
[QUOTE=Tabarnaco;26835787]Even though a new player with no COD point is at a disadvantage against someone with a custom class and the best perks and attachments? Nope, you'll need to explain that better. You still need to play the game to be good at it, so it's still a waste of time![/quote]
Herp derp? I just said it wasn't better balanced. But the concept of leveling through point gains, from both kills and objectives, is just better designed than random drops. Whenever you play, you're working towards that next level, no matter how short an amount of time you spend playing. This is not true in TF2.
[quote]How? TF2 is an online first-person shooter that's completely different from even other online first-person shooters. Street Fighter is a conservative fighting game that barely changes anything besides adding new characters gameplay-wise in its sequels. They are obviously played by completely different people and what you're saying is like claiming that a kids game should be designed the same way as adult-only horror games or something. Maybe I don't understand your point, but what you're saying is incredibly vague and doesn't make much sense.[/quote]
"Barley changes anything besides adding new characters." I shit you not, I actually cringed.
What I'm saying is quite clear. It is not a good idea to replace old versions with new ones. The option of returning to previous versions (content-wise, bugfixes are a different story) should always be available to players. That way, people that like the new content can play it to their heart's content, but people that don't enjoy it can simply play what they did enjoy. TF2 is a basely different game from what it was in 2007, and I don't personally enjoy it. It annoys me that I can't enjoy the game I bought any more; it's been replaced with what [i]I[/i] believe is a shadow of its former self.
[quote]Hahaha no, popularity and the fact that they can be played online (which isn't even a big part of Street Fighter) aren't decisive factors, or at least not the only ones.
Highly competitive, don't make me laugh. TF2 is only played competitively because people wanted it to be competitive, and it's far from being as competitive as Street Fighter is. Besides, competitive TF2 players mostly only use the stock weapons, so if anything that disproves your point about "straight upgrades".[/quote]
Maybe you're interpreting "game design" incorrectly. There are some concepts that are universal in gaming. For example, it is never fun to be killed without a chance to counter it and therefore games should be designed to avoid putting players in this position. This particular problem isn't a [i]major[/i] issue in TF2, but what I was getting at is the idea of offering new versions as alternatives, not replacements.
[quote]I don't understand what you mean by that, but if you want to play vanilla, play in or host a vanilla server. That's not hard to do.[/quote]
But not through an officially sponsored method, and therefore only a minuscule amount of players play this way. If they were to call this constantly updated version TF3 or TF2.5 and let players play the pre-item game, I've no doubt there'd be a thriving, if not particularly large, community for the original game... this thread should rather prove that.
[quote]Your damn fault, do I whine about not knowing shit about Street Fighter? I don't even know how to do charged combos. It's not your game, that's all, doesn't mean it's a bad game.[/quote]
But I used to know the ins and outs of the game. Back before all the item updates, I knew what every gun did, how to counter most common situations, etc etc. Now I don't, because they've replaced the game I loved with this... creation, and it's just frustrating me.
[quote][i]Again[/i], maybe you're just bad, I win easily with stock weapons. I change classes if someone's giving me a hard time.[/QUOTE]
It's not like I don't do well. I consider myself a pretty good medic, and regularly score high. What frustrates me, however, is that when I [i]do[/i] get killed, it's not through something I could have seen coming because I didn't even know it existed. All these updates require players to change strategies every single time an update is released, with no option to revert. Some people enjoy this constant adaption, and I say more power to them. Let them play this version of TF2 if that's what they really enjoy. I don't.
whoops "barley"
[QUOTE=postmanX3;26838328]Herp derp? I just said it wasn't better balanced. But the concept of leveling through point gains, from both kills and objectives, is just better designed than random drops. Whenever you play, you're working towards that next level, no matter how short an amount of time you spend playing. This is not true in TF2.[/quote]
Maybe because TF2 doesn't have levels? :downs:
You get a bunch of unlockables from achievements, which works fine until people became lazy asses and decided to use SAM instead of playing the game and doing something. The rest is easily obtainable through various means. Getting weapons has never been easier. "But it takes time, baww!", like every other video game. "But it's random, baww!", trading, and you're guaranteed to get at least one item an hour, plus a crate, which people are willing to trade for metal or weapons.
[QUOTE=postmanX3;26833516]"Barley changes anything besides adding new characters." I shit you not, I actually cringed.[/quote]
I cringed at your spelling. :downs:
[QUOTE=postmanX3;26833516]What I'm saying is quite clear. It is not a good idea to replace old versions with new ones. The option of returning to previous versions (content-wise, bugfixes are a different story) should always be available to players.[/quote]
Hahahahaha, no.
You can easily set up a server to block certain weapons, as I have mentioned multiple times, but you seem to ignore it.
And letting people decide which "version" of the game they want to play would be so incredibly chaotic, it's not even worth it.
[QUOTE=postmanX3;26833516]TF2 is a basely different game from what it was in 2007, and I don't personally enjoy it. It annoys me that I can't enjoy the game I bought any more; it's been replaced with what [i]I[/i] believe is a shadow of its former self.[/quote]
Make your own server, play in a vanilla server. :downs: :downs: :downs:
[QUOTE=postmanX3;26833516]Maybe you're interpreting "game design" incorrectly. There are some concepts that are universal in gaming. For example, it is never fun to be killed without a chance to counter it and therefore games should be designed to avoid putting players in this position.[/quote]
Have I mentioned sidegrades yet? Heh.
Also, tell that to Red Orchestra players or something.
[QUOTE=postmanX3;26833516]But not through an officially sponsored method, and therefore only a minuscule amount of players play this way.[/quote]
It's easily available, if people don't play it that way that probably means that no one cares. Lots of people play/played VS. Saxton Hale and Advanced Weaponiser. Guess no one cares enough about vanilla if no one plays on these servers.
[QUOTE=postmanX3;26833516]If they were to call this constantly updated version TF3 or TF2.5 and let players play the pre-item game, I've no doubt there'd be a thriving, if not particularly large, community for the original game... this thread should rather prove that.[/quote]
No, because a bunch of whiners don't speak for the rest of the players.
And guess Tripwire should stop updating Killing Floor. After all, it's not like they need money, or players.
You can play the beta anyway since all the players have access to all the same items in it.
[QUOTE=postmanX3;26833516]But I used to know the ins and outs of the game. Back before all the item updates, I knew what every gun did, how to counter most common situations, etc etc. Now I don't, because they've replaced the game I loved with this... creation, and it's just frustrating me.[/quote]
Well maybe if you played this... creation you wouldn't need to whine about how you don't know anything about it. Let me remind you of what I just said in my last post:
[quote="Tabarnaco"]Your damn fault, do I whine about not knowing shit about Street Fighter? I don't even know how to do charged combos. It's not your game, that's all, doesn't mean it's a bad game.[/quote]
[QUOTE=postmanX3;26833516]It's not like I don't do well. I consider myself a pretty good medic, and regularly score high.[/quote]
That's impressive, considering you don't play it anymore.
[QUOTE=postmanX3;26833516]What frustrates me, however, is that when I [i]do[/i] get killed, it's not through something I could have seen coming because I didn't even know it existed.[/quote]
There's a nice and pretty catalogue available for all players in the loadout menu thing, the button above the server browser. Read it. It's your fault if you don't keep up with what happens in the game. "I didn't know about Ultra combos in Street Fighter 4, they should remove them!"
[QUOTE=postmanX3;26833516]All these updates require players to change strategies every single time an update is released, with no option to revert. Some people enjoy this constant adaption, and I say more power to them. Let them play this version of TF2 if that's what they really enjoy. I don't.[/QUOTE]
And you're only mentioning this now, after all the individual class updates and Polycount? If you don't like this part of the game, why are you still browsing the TF2 forum after so long?
And once again, host your server or play on a vanilla one. Don't act like you can't do it, it's there, there are already a few servers up and running that run vanilla TF2, I don't know if there are any players in them, but they exist.
[QUOTE=Tabarnaco;26838842]Maybe because TF2 doesn't have levels? :downs:
You get a bunch of unlockables from achievements, which works fine until people became lazy asses and decided to use SAM instead of playing the game and doing something. The rest is easily obtainable through various means. Getting weapons has never been easier. "But it takes time, baww!", like every other video game. "But it's random, baww!", trading, and you're guaranteed to get at least one item an hour, plus a crate, which people are willing to trade for metal or weapons.[/quote]
Honestly, I'm not even going to bother responding to this because you're apparently still unable to counter my argument against random-timed drops with anything more than "crates, crafting, trading" ALL OF WHICH... relate back to random drops.
[quote]I cringed at your spelling. :downs:[/quote]
Whoops. Looks like we must now argue grains.
[quote]Hahahahaha, no.
You can easily set up a server to block certain weapons, as I have mentioned multiple times, but you seem to ignore it.
And letting people decide which "version" of the game they want to play would be so incredibly chaotic, it's not even worth it.[/quote]
Letting people decide which version wouldn't result in chaos if we meted out releases thoughtfully. It's not "chaos" among the Street Fighter community, is it? Some people remain staunch adherents of II, while others prefer IV and some fringe people choose III. I'm not saying every last update on Steam should get its own entry. I'm saying we need to draw a line between 2007-era TF2 and 2010-era TF2, because they are undeniably different games.
[quote]Make your own server, play in a vanilla server. :downs: :downs: :downs:[/quote]
I don't have money to start my own server, and vanilla servers are buried underneath updated servers and therefore receive little to no attention. :downs: :downs: :downs:
[quote]Have I mentioned sidegrades yet? Heh.
Also, tell that to Red Orchestra players or something.[/quote]
Don't see how sidegrades really relate to my point.
Red Orchestra is... well it's definitely not well designed in the traditional sense. I'll just say that and hope there's not some huge RO fans lingering around.
[quote]It's easily available, if people don't play it that way that probably means that no one cares. Lots of people play/played VS. Saxton Hale and Advanced Weaponiser. Guess no one cares enough about vanilla if no one plays on these servers.[/quote]
If no one cares about vanilla, why does this thread exist? Hmm?
[quote]No, because a bunch of whiners don't speak for the rest of the players.
And guess Tripwire should stop updating Killing Floor. After all, it's not like they need money, or players.
You can play the beta anyway since all the players have access to all the same items in it.[/quote]
I never said TF2 shouldn't be updated. If people really want that, let them have it.
Killing Floor is a poor example because updates haven't significantly changed the basic gameplay, they've only extended it.
[quote]Well maybe if you played this... creation you wouldn't need to whine about how you don't know anything about it. Let me remind you of what I just said in my last post:[/quote]
Except I have played it. Not a lot, I'll admit, but enough to show me that it's not TF2.
[quote]That's impressive, considering you don't play it anymore.[/quote]
I figured it was obvious I meant "on the rare occasions on which I do play." :downs:
[quote]There's a nice and pretty catalogue available for all players in the loadout menu thing, the button above the server browser. Read it. It's your fault if you don't keep up with what happens in the game. "I didn't know about Ultra combos in Street Fighter 4, they should remove them!"[/quote]
This is such an awful example I'm not even sure where to begin. In short, Ultra Combos have been in SF IV since its inception, whereas new items are being added to TF2 constantly and unavoidably. AGAIN, though new versions of SF are released, they don't replace old versions and people are therefore free to pick and choose which version they like best.
[quote]And you're only mentioning this now, after all the individual class updates and Polycount? If you don't like this part of the game, why are you still browsing the TF2 forum after so long?
And once again, host your server or play on a vanilla one. Don't act like you can't do it, it's there, there are already a few servers up and running that run vanilla TF2, I don't know if there are any players in them, but they exist.[/QUOTE]
I'm still here because I browse FP and I happen to visit this section out of curiosity every once in a while. It wouldn't be the first time I'm pointed this out, either.
Just to make you think... From TF2 Dev commentary:
"We gave each class a distinctive simple silhouette, so that the player could easily identify what the class the opponent is"
"By removing granades and excessive weapons, we were able to also make the player easily identify what the opponent is holding and how he should counter-attack"
"During development, we tried to make sure that players that spent more time in the game didn't gain any advantage to casual players, other then being more familiar with the game itself"
"During playtesting, we found that stunning mechanics, or any mechanic that took control away from the player were not very fun, so we tried to stay away from them"
Huh.
[QUOTE=Leaf Runner;26835999]Why the fuck did they decide to make some weapons exclusive to crates?[/QUOTE]
Adding on to this, I'm really disappointed with Valve. I tried to understand them with set hats that change gameplay, but exclusive crate weapons with their own stats is seriously crossing the line and a huge dick move. It's almost becoming a borderline-F2P game now, where people who pay get exclusive shit that impacts gameplay. Mann Co. Store was supposed to be an alternate way for some people to get an item they want a little bit faster than other people, or to get an exclusive cosmetic, but these exclusive festive crate weapons are a whole different story.
[QUOTE=postmanX3;26839866]Honestly, I'm not even going to bother responding to this because you're apparently still unable to counter my argument against random-timed drops with anything more than "crates, crafting, trading" ALL OF WHICH... relate back to random drops.[/quote]
This is stupid. Even assuming that everybody in TF2 got their items from random drops, which is false, how exactly would that affect my argument? And "Oh, I'm not going to bother answering your post because you didn't give me an adequate answer on this subject".
[QUOTE=postmanX3;26839866]Letting people decide which version wouldn't result in chaos if we meted out releases thoughtfully. It's not "chaos" among the Street Fighter community, is it?[/quote]
Stop comparing TF2 to Street Fighter. I'm pretty sure I've already explained why in detail, and you didn't even reply to it. So I'm assuming you accept my conclusion.
Street Fighter never gets updated, TF2 frequently receives engine updates and content updates. No way to compare the two of them.
[QUOTE=postmanX3;26839866]Some people remain staunch adherents of II, while others prefer IV and some fringe people choose III. I'm not saying every last update on Steam should get its own entry. I'm saying we need to draw a line between 2007-era TF2 and 2010-era TF2, because they are undeniably different games.[/quote]
But what about people who liked the game before the Engineer update, before the Medic update, before Polycount, people who liked Polycount but not this update, people who only want all the updates up to the Sniper and Spy one and still want the store? No, it doesn't work. Just because [i]you[/i] have an opinion doesn't mean that everybody shares the exact same views in terms of where to draw the line.
[QUOTE=postmanX3;26839866]I don't have money to start my own server[/quote]
You have a computer and an Internet connection, yes you do. :downs: :downs: :downs:
[QUOTE=postmanX3;26839866]and vanilla servers are buried underneath updated servers and therefore receive little to no attention. :downs: :downs: :downs:[/quote]
Well, guess that shows how much people care!
[QUOTE=postmanX3;26839866]Don't see how sidegrades really relate to my point.[/quote]
That there's no reason why you wouldn't "be able to counter" a class because you don't have certain weapons when you have nine classes available with each having different roles. When in doubt, go Spy, if it's a Spy that's giving you trouble, go Pyro. If you main Medic, learn to dodge, avoid the front lines until your Übercharge meter is full and look behind your back frequently. You don't need special weapons to do that.
[QUOTE=postmanX3;26839866]Red Orchestra is... well it's definitely not well designed in the traditional sense. I'll just say that and hope there's not some huge RO fans lingering around.[/quote]
Then I guess TF2 is different and you can't argue against it because it's not a typical FPS. Meh.
[QUOTE=postmanX3;26839866]If no one cares about vanilla, why does this thread exist? Hmm?[/quote]
Because Facepunch whines about updates all the time, that's not exactly new.
[QUOTE=postmanX3;26839866]Killing Floor is a poor example because updates haven't significantly changed the basic gameplay, they've only extended it.[/quote]
You mean like Street Fighter?
[QUOTE=postmanX3;26839866]Except I have played it. Not a lot, I'll admit, but enough to show me that it's not TF2.[/quote]
And I certainly disagree, you just don't get used to an update in 0.2 hour, that's just you spinning yourself.
[QUOTE=postmanX3;26839866]This is such an awful example I'm not even sure where to begin. In short, Ultra Combos have been in SF IV since its inception, whereas new items are being added to TF2 constantly and unavoidably. AGAIN, though new versions of SF are released, they don't replace old versions and people are therefore free to pick and choose which version they like best.[/quote]
So? They're still different versions of the same basic game. When you have the documentation available it's your own fault if you decide not to read it. How the hell can you even try to argue against that? What do you want the game to do, force you to go through a tutorial explaining what each individual weapon does after every update? If you want to know what something does, it's right there available to you. If you don't want to take this opportunity, don't whine about it.
Also, would you rather have a new Team Fortress game released every few months with the exact same graphics and engine but a few added weapons? Ridiculous. It's completely different from what Street Fighter does.
[editline]20th December 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=TheJoey;26839957]"We gave each class a distinctive simple silhouette, so that the player could easily identify what the class the opponent is"[/quote]
Still true, they didn't change classes' appearance.
[QUOTE=TheJoey;26839957]"By removing grenades and excessive weapons, we were able to also make the player easily identify what the opponent is holding and how he should counter-attack"[/quote]
There are no grenades, so it's still easy to see what people are holding.
[QUOTE=TheJoey;26839957]"During development, we tried to make sure that players that spent more time in the game didn't gain any advantage to casual players, other then being more familiar with the game itself"[/quote]
Still true. Maybe even more now that there's a catalogue available.
[QUOTE=TheJoey;26839957]"During playtesting, we found that stunning mechanics, or any mechanic that took control away from the player were not very fun, so we tried to stay away from them"[/quote]
People have been complaining about the Sandman for a long time, and with reason.
[QUOTE=TheJoey;26839957]Just to make you think... From TF2 Dev commentary:
"We gave each class a distinctive simple silhouette, so that the player could easily identify what the class the opponent is"
"By removing granades and excessive weapons, we were able to also make the player easily identify what the opponent is holding and how he should counter-attack"
"During development, we tried to make sure that players that spent more time in the game didn't gain any advantage to casual players, other then being more familiar with the game itself"
"During playtesting, we found that stunning mechanics, or any mechanic that took control away from the player were not very fun, so we tried to stay away from them"
Huh.[/QUOTE]
They still hold, the silhouettes are the same, weapons are easily identifiable, grinding doesn't get you better weapons and they removed the stun effect from the sandman ages ago.
Well you're still "stunned", but you can at least move.
[QUOTE=Tabarnaco;26840359]Well you're still "stunned", but you can at least move.[/QUOTE]
Barely.
Here's my thoughts on the current fuckbucket called TF2
Pros:
Tons of weapons
Free updates
All sorts of events that sprice the gameplay once in a while
Customization of your person.
Cons:
Fucked up weapon models
Shitty optimization
Shitty in-game stores that make money = advantage
Shitty balancing
Shitty polycount sets that serve no use in actual gameplay practically speaking
Shitty gimmicks like unusual hats and Vintage items
Fix cons and you have a real A+ game.
Who cares about Vintage and Unusual items, that's not a con, are you jealous or something?
[QUOTE=TheDecryptor;26840343]They still hold, the silhouettes are the same, weapons are easily identifiable, grinding doesn't get you better weapons and they removed the stun effect from the sandman ages ago.[/QUOTE]
You can still get stunned by the Sandman if the distance is far enough, and you still lose your ability to attack. Natascha slows you to a halt (up until recently at any distance). Many weapons are just reskins of other weapons with very different effects, but in movement and far enough away they are difficult to identify. Idling gets you better weapons.
[QUOTE=Tabarnaco;26840482]Who cares about Vintage and Unusual items, that's not a con, are you jealous or something?[/QUOTE]
it makes it harder to get a trade because people value their item more for no good reason
there are many stories of people being cock-blocked because "OH i thought you were giving a vintage hat no deal" and if every item was the same 'rarity' there wouldn't be this problem
[QUOTE=TheJoey;26840572]You can still get stunned by the Sandman if the distance is far enough, and you still lose your ability to attack. Natascha slows you to a halt (up until recently at any distance). Many weapons are just reskins of other weapons with very different effects, but in movement and far enough away they are difficult to identify. Idling gets you better weapons.[/QUOTE]
You can still move, the old stun method stopped everything and put you into 3rd person.
And where are these better weapons? I've been idling and only getting plain unlocks.
I don't know what to think of Valve anymore.
They used to make amazing games.
But now this complete disregard for polish, testing, and taking their fucking god damn time on these updates has really been making me not want to play TF2.
What I'm waiting for is Old as Hell Bugfixes - Old as Hell Cosmetic Fixes IE Beta Gibs and Beta HUD Pictures
Pyro Buffs. Pyro is so weak it's laughable. At least make him a viable class in Competitive Matches.
I don't think the game is "ruined". Some of the new weapons are alright. The item set bonuses are fucking stupid. People embarrass themselves by using the nametag to give their items the dumbest names (mostly dead memes). Also, seeing some of the painted hats are an ungodly eyesore.
Pyro and Demoman should switch places, so Pyro is in Defense and Demo is in Offense.
[editline]20th December 2010[/editline]
Since, you know, their roles have been reversed.
Once for all I will say this:
[B]STOP UPDATING THIS GAME! TAKE A BREAK VALVE.[/B]
I know this sounds kinda stupid but I seriously don't need RUSHED updates just like Australian Christmas.
I prefer to wait for update like WAR or SNIPER VS SPY.
[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L80crFNEXW4#t=2m0s"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L80crFNEXW4#t=1m58s[/URL] :geno:
(No media tags because the time hash doesn't work with it.)
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBPJK9x9IBo[/media]
TF2's next menu update. :ohdear:
Sad but true.
[QUOTE=J. Jett;26851629][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBPJK9x9IBo[/media]
TF2's next menu update. :ohdear:
Sad but true.[/QUOTE]
It would be funny if Valve put something like that for April 1st.
[QUOTE=J. Jett;26851629][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBPJK9x9IBo[/media]
TF2's next menu update. :ohdear:
Sad but true.[/QUOTE]I had a dream last night that it was a year in the future. I was a Junior in highschool and when I started up TF2 the menu was like that and I received a notification that I had gotten a new item.. It was a pizza. With a logo from Pizza Hut on it. :geno:
I'm not psychic am I?
[QUOTE=Rellow;26851673]I had a dream last night that it was a year in the future. I was a Junior in highschool and when I started up TF2 the menu was like that and I received a notification that I had gotten a new item.. It was a pizza. With a logo from Pizza Hut on it. :geno:
I'm not psychic am I?[/QUOTE]
I had a dream I had an unusual wiki cape. That must have been pretty far in the future.
[QUOTE=Kowalski;26851661]It would be funny if Valve put something like that for April 1st.[/QUOTE]
If that DID happen on April the first i would not be able to play tf2.
I'd be laughing too hard at the menu.
[QUOTE=coverop;26850182]Once for all I will say this:
[B]STOP UPDATING THIS GAME! TAKE A BREAK VALVE.[/B]
I know this sounds kinda stupid but I seriously don't need RUSHED updates just like Australian Christmas.
I prefer to wait for update like WAR or SNIPER VS SPY.[/QUOTE]
I partially agree. Robin's team should relax for a while and concentrate in polish the game: Some days after the halloween update I had to turn the game to DX8 because it was barely playable in DX9. Now, after this update, I get the same performance in DX8 than in DX9 before the update, so I had to put the game in a little 800x600 window (Just like in Killing Floor) to be able to play. I can perfectly see myself stop playing in the future if they keep having all this performance problems :frown:
I'm fine with what we currenty have, so I wouldn't mind having the next big update in the middle of the next year.
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