Valve and their laziness with the loch-n-load - Games

[QUOTE=Blackbird88;26819785]They should just give all other weapons the unused "There can be only ONE" IMO.[/QUOTE] I thought that animation sucked tbh

The +10 percent damage and faster moving speed doesn't justify the loss of 2 grenades. Your potential damage providing you're accurate, goes from 400ish max to 230. You can't fire nades down at an area the enemy is retreating to, to block their path or take them out while they're at low HP, you can't kill an enemy soldier or demo if they've got a medic on them without switching to your sticky launcher. And even if you land a nade on a scout, it won't kill him in one hit, you'll still have to land the next, what's the point? The projectile speed increase doesn't make much of a difference, if you can't aim with the nade launcher, you probably can't aim with this either. Valve really fucked up the stats for this weapon.

[QUOTE=Riutet;26820379]The +10 percent damage and faster moving speed doesn't justify the loss of 2 grenades. Your DPS providing you're accurate, goes from 400ish max to 230. You can't fire nades down at an area the enemy is retreating to, to block their path or take them out while they're at low HP, you can't kill an enemy soldier or demo if they've got a medic on them without switching to your sticky launcher. And even if you land a nade on a scout, it won't kill him in one hit, you'll still have to land the next, what's the point? The projectile speed increase doesn't make much of a difference, if you can't aim with the nade launcher, you probably can't aim with this either.[/QUOTE] The biggest downside ANY weapon can have is a low ammunition supply. The black box's only downside is its 3 rockets, and thats helluva enough to keep you hauling ass for 30 seconds as you constantly reload. Just the combination of the 2 grenades and how you can only get direct kills makes the loch virtually useless to me and alot of other people due to how unpractical it is.

Really, I would have liked the Loch N Load if it worked like this. 6 grenades loaded - 16 reserve - Same time it takes to reload one grenade for the grenade launcher to load one for the LnL. Each grenade does 60 damage maximum, 40 as you move away, and 20 at a far distance. Each grenade explodes the moment it comes into contact with a surface, if you're within the blast radius, you'll take damage ramping down the further you are away from the epicenter. So you have to land a near direct hit to do 60 damage, but failing that you'll likely do about 40 or 30. The fire rate is such that it fires two grenades one after the other fairly quickly, but after each two grenades fired there's a delay in which he primes the next two grenades for firing. The grenades turn into duds if they hit a surface or person at too close a distance away from the demo who fired the grenades, no point blank impossible to miss shots, if an enemy gets too close in, like a scout would do, you're kinda toast. Potential damage before having to reload would be 360, the weapon doesn't crit. I think it'd suit the demo's role as a damage dealer as well as someone who fights with the enemy largely indirectly. Either that, or a huge decrease in fire rate, the ability to charge your grenades before firing like you can do with the sticky launcher so they fire more like rockets, and a small increase in damage from direct hits and less damage from splash.

[QUOTE=Dachande;26820376]I thought that animation sucked tbh[/QUOTE] I mean the sound duh. So he doesn't scream bottle ol scrumpy with every melee.

[QUOTE=Riutet;26820604]Really, I would have liked the Loch N Load if it worked like this. 6 grenades loaded - 16 reserve - Same time it takes to reload one grenade for the grenade launcher to load one for the LnL. Each grenade does 60 damage maximum, 40 as you move away, and 20 at a far distance. Each grenade explodes the moment it comes into contact with a surface, if you're within the blast radius, you'll take damage ramping down the further you are away from the epicenter. So you have to land a near direct hit to do 60 damage, but failing that you'll likely do about 40 or 30. The fire rate is such that it fires two grenades one after the other fairly quickly, but after each two grenades fired there's a delay in which he primes the next two grenades for firing. The grenades turn into duds if they hit a surface or person at too close a distance away from the demo who fired the grenades, no point blank impossible to miss shots, if an enemy gets too close in, like a scout would do, you're kinda toast. Potential damage before having to reload would be 360, the weapon doesn't crit. I think it'd suit the demo's role as a damage dealer as well as someone who fights with the enemy largely indirectly. Either that, or a huge decrease in fire rate, the ability to charge your grenades before firing like you can do with the sticky launcher so they fire more like rockets, and a small increase in damage from direct hits and less damage from splash.[/QUOTE] this is a good idea, but i disagree with the more self damage. i think it should do no self damage and actually be a viable way to jump with charge n targe equipped. i know you can still jump with the normal launcher, but it takes time and crazy timing. I can't really imagine quick 2 shots though. and how can it be six slots? it only has two barrels. but it's hard to justify how many shots it can fire since the physical model only has 2 :v:

[QUOTE=Shounic;26820841]this is a good idea, but i disagree with the more self damage. i think it should do no self damage and actually be a viable way to jump with charge n targe equipped. i know you can still jump with the normal launcher, but it takes time and crazy timing. I can't really imagine quick 2 shots though. and how can it be six slots? it only has two barrels. but it's hard to justify how many shots it can fire since the physical model only has 2 :v:[/QUOTE] I believe the main disadvantage of the targe is that you lose your ability to be a highly mobile and air traveling class in exchange for a cheap crit and annoying damage resistance, wouldn't mind pressing right click or something to fire a self damaging grenade for bouncing yourself about though. I think no self damage on any explosive weapon is a tad overpowered, you're supposed to make a small sacrifice in order to take the high ground off of an enemy or to move about quicker or to force the enemy to try and take the high ground off of you. If you took away damage from the explosive, you'd see demomen using the grenades to propel themselves around the map spamming stickies and then bouncing away to safety without taking any damage at all all the while dealing out a shit ton of damage. There needs to be a penalty for rocket and grenade jumping just to keep things balanced. As for the issue of the gun itself only having 2 barrels, I'd say that isn't much of an issue, where do the rockets in the Rocket Launcher go? Why does the default grenade launcher have 6 barrels but only 4 shots loadable? (nerfed) Valve and weapon mechanics relating to the look of their weapons don't really fit in the same sentence, I feel it's an acceptable abstraction.

The only gameplay issue I can see is the one-shotting of Scouts. If you took one regular grenade on full HP, you still had a chance to retreat.. but this is just silly.

[QUOTE=tyler_uk;26821745]The only gameplay issue I can see is the one-shotting of Scouts. If you took one regular grenade on full HP, you still had a chance to retreat.. but this is just silly.[/QUOTE] I was playing a PuG as scout and there was an enemy demo using the Loch n Load, after the game had ended and I stuck around meleeing people, he hit me with a grenade a couple of times, when I was at full health I didn't die, and I was just playing default scout. You'll die in one shot with the Sandman out, but then again, you deserve it for using the Sandman.

Valve is pretty fucking lazy with the taunts in general, I can think of billions of taunts for items that don't have it, like the Bonk! I suggested this when the scout update came out: The same running animation used with the pistol, where he checks his BPM, only have his legs do that cartoony blur effect Or for the axe, have him just hold it above his head and yell. Seriously valve, this isn't difficult stuff.

At least the new demo grenade doesn't have taunt..... just think... I don't even...

[QUOTE=CommanderMayhem;26805253]Actually hitting people? What bullshit is this? I can't just spam grenades and not even look? BULLSHIT I'M QUITTING VALVE RUINED TF2 /sarcasm[/QUOTE] It's not about that, is it that if you wanted to hit people with grenades, the regular one would be better, it has 2x the ammunition and doesn't fuck you up when you hit someone close to you. 10% more damage and a little bit faster grenade aint worth it. Hell even direct hit which is faster, deals more damage and doesn't fall over the distance has 4 rockets. The weapon is simply ridiculous. The animations are ridiculous, but i wouldn't mind if the weapon was actually decent.

[QUOTE=yuki;26829830] Or for the axe, have him just hold it above his head and yell. Seriously valve, this isn't difficult stuff.[/QUOTE] Sounds like the pyro taunt. Since valve loves using things again and again, thats exactly what you would get. The pyro taunt.

[QUOTE=coverop;26830910]At least the new demo grenade doesn't have taunt..... just think... I don't even...[/QUOTE] Drinking out of a grenade.

[QUOTE=wari65;26834253]Drinking out of a grenade.[/QUOTE] He already drinks out of a frying pan and a stick, I don't see why not. [editline]20th December 2010[/editline] [sp]Wrong weapon taunt with bottle to grenade launcher.[/sp]

snip

Demo grenade should have a suicide taunt like the Equalizer.

He drinks out the socket and explodes

That would be Valve's lazy way of doing it.

Or the old unused bottle kill taunt could be used

Lazy way or normal way?

[QUOTE=Wootman;26834873]Lazy way or normal way?[/QUOTE] I would've said normal way actually but Equalizer proves that wrong. Well, not really, back when the Equalizer was added, Valve was actually putting a little effort forward.

Just tried the unused demo taunt in HLMV and it works perfectly for the Caber

[QUOTE=iKey;26834738]Demo grenade should have a suicide taunt like the Equalizer.[/QUOTE] Demo takes one of the grenade launchers bombs from his vest thing, throws it at the ground and it explodes. Sound good?

[QUOTE=mars7a;26835153]Demo takes one of the grenade launchers bombs from his vest thing, throws it at the ground and it explodes. Sound good?[/QUOTE] nah, he take one grenade on his chest, say "me bottle o' scrumpy" try drink it and explode

[QUOTE=C4rnage;26835292]nah, he take one grenade on his chest, say "me bottle o' scrumpy" try drink it and explode[/QUOTE] He tries juggling them like Soldier does in the BB taunt, and drops them.

Cock n' Load.

How did Valve miss this anyway?

Too busy playing medieval.

[QUOTE=dark soul;26806656]It's not valve that's lazy, but th-[/QUOTE] No, it's Valve.