Having set hats is a good thing. - Games

[B]Set hats[/B] For: - Visual feedback if player has some kind of bonus (but how about hat but no weapon, like Fez, L'Etanger but default knife, huh? Or Just Fez? It's pretty good hat.) - Ability to turn bonus on or off (i don't want to run faster as pyro while getting raped by 3 heavies) Against: - Drama about hats not being just cosmetic items anymore - Being forced to wear stoopid hat (i don't like all polycount hats except for fez) to recieve bonus. Why would i need to wear gay softcap while i can wear my UBERAWESOME VIKING HAT

[QUOTE=Zanpa;26834716]Yeah, you seem to really not play a lot of Scout.[/QUOTE] I dominate in kills and assists as sandman scout. Gonna have to agree with t-man. I am better with Scatter than with shortstop but shortstop can rape you hard.

Why not just get a temporary untradable version of the set hat when you equip the set. That way you have the option of equiping the hat for the bonus.

[QUOTE=wari65;26833586]Combined with the targe, how ineffective does that make pyros?[/QUOTE] It won't make any difference, a Chargin' Tard Demoman will still get Puff N Sting'd by any competent Pyro player that knows how to use the Axetinguisher. Its hilarious to puff a Chargin Demoman, cancel his charge, set him on fire, and then insta kill him. Its like they don't know what the Axetinguisher is even capable of, because sometimes they'll just keep trying to melee you!

[QUOTE=MrCasual;26835275]Its like they don't know what the Axetinguisher is even capable of, because sometimes they'll just keep trying to melee you![/QUOTE] And get a crit, and kill you, because of that increased melee range they get. [editline]lolo[/editline] There's no reason to rate me dumb, you know.

[QUOTE=Zanpa;26835350]And get a crit, and kill you, because of that increased melee range they get.[/QUOTE] That's luck on the Demoman's part. With the Pyro is GUARANTEED crits if you know what you're doing.

The problem with set hats is that they can be worn without the rest of the set. I can appreciate the idea of the easy visual identification aspect of the set hats, but the ability to bluff headshot-immunity as a conventional sniper with a Croc-o-Style makes it somewhat meaningless.

[QUOTE=Hogulus;26836256]The problem with set hats is that they can be worn without the rest of the set. I can appreciate the idea of the easy visual identification aspect of the set hats, but the ability to bluff headshot-immunity as a conventional sniper with a Croc-o-Style makes it somewhat meaningless.[/QUOTE] That comparison doesn't work as well as the pyro, because you can simply look at the sniper's weapon to visually tell what he's using, as it restricts your weapon choices entirely.

[QUOTE=Zanpa;26835350]And get a crit, and kill you, because of that increased melee range they get.[/QUOTE] Good luck getting that random crit with the Eyelander. Because that's some shit I'd like to see.

No, because I want to wear my hats of choice, hats are cosmetic. And the whole "it shows what sets they are using" is bs, by that logic, every loadout needs a special hat to show what items they are using. If you think about, all loadouts have their "status bonuses". Plus one can wear the set hat without the polycount weapons.

[QUOTE=Zanpa;26834214]Yeah, as you wish. I have a few hundred hours of play as a Scout, and I can assure you that no decent Scout would play with the Shortstop. Mad milk, what. I can run away to health packs if I must, and the pistol is just too good to lose. The only plus is the +25hp part. Adimttedly, this can be worth the loss of a pistol and a not-so-good primary. But that's not a real upgrade.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Zanpa;26835350]And get a crit, and kill you, because of that increased melee range they get. [editline]lolo[/editline] There's no reason to rate me dumb, you know.[/QUOTE] hundreds of hours as scout and 0 for everything else, a good player doesn't make.

I disagree for 2 reasons- A. Hats should never affect gameplay due to how difficult they are to get, plain and simple. B. Nothing is stopping a Sniper from using the danger shield and sydney Sleeper with a shiv, thus counteracting the "Sub-Class" argument, as could a scout use the Candy Cane instead of the Mackerel.

[QUOTE=TraderRager;26840354]I disagree for 2 reasons- A. Hats should never affect gameplay due to how difficult they are to get, plain and simple. B. Nothing is stopping a Sniper from using the danger shield and sydney Sleeper with a shiv, thus counteracting the "Sub-Class" argument, as could a scout use the Candy Cane instead of the Mackerel.[/QUOTE] This was addressed as one of the current problems with the sets. You obviously did not read the entirety of the thread, or for that matter the entirety of the first post..

[QUOTE=A B.A. Survivor;26834140]Shortstop is the Scattergun combined with the pistol. Mad Milk lets you live longer. Fish... whatever. You also get more health. Out of all those +'s, there are no blatant -'s, like with the Gas Jockey's Gear.[/QUOTE] Lol, you make it sound like it's an outright upgrade, which it is not Item, sets and whatever bonuses mean very little when you get two consecutive Scattergun blasts straight to your face, might as well be a FaN or whatever. My point is, milk scouts are what they are, different (ugly) scouts in my eyes, which are even more fun to frag after all their milking attempts

[QUOTE=Bat-shit;26840990]Lol, you make it sound like it's an outright upgrade, which it is not Item, sets and whatever bonuses mean very little when you get two consecutive Scattergun blasts straight to your face, might as well be a FaN or whatever. My point is, milk scouts are what they are, different (ugly) scouts in my eyes, which are even more fun to frag after all their milking attempts[/QUOTE] You're saying that I should be a Scout using the Scattergun or Force-a-Nature all the time.

Nnnnnno he's not? What are you talking about? [editline]20th December 2010[/editline] And the Shortstop is most definitely not an upgrade to the Scattergun. After trying the new weapons I went back to the Scattergun and the Pistol.

I know I posted it before but Vanilla set bonus: +10% chance of random critical (which makes it 15% chance of random critical just like when TF2 came out) edit: also you must not wear any hat to have the bonus :P

100+ hours into pyro. Nobody likes my set. Degreaser + Flare gun + Axtinquisher.

[QUOTE=mr apple;26841550]100+ hours into pyro. Nobody likes my set. Degreaser + Flare gun + Axtinquisher.[/QUOTE] I hate the Axtinguisher. [I]HATE IT.[/I]

[QUOTE=mr apple;26841550]100+ hours into pyro. Nobody likes my set. Degreaser + Flare gun + Axtinquisher.[/QUOTE] I like it. Thats the set I always use when I actually own all 3 of those weapons.

[QUOTE=mr apple;26841550]100+ hours into pyro. Nobody likes my set. Degreaser + Flare gun + Axtinquisher.[/QUOTE] i [b]only[/b] use that. only recently have i tried using the shotgun

I don't mind set bonuses, but not with hats being part of them. Valve seems to have understood that with the latest update, but now that they sold the old sets, people that bought them would complain that they bought them for nothing if Valve removed hats from the sets. Sets help balancing for having to use Danger shield and Bushwacka at the same time, for example, by giving a bonus. But set hats don't help identifying who has a set bonus, like some said.

The soldier set is awful. Using the black box with the backup doesn't work in general, and the set bonus really doesn't help much against sentries. The black box is awful at taking out sentries anyway. And the scout and pyro sets are just unfair. Like, if someone just happens to have the materials they need to craft the hat and you don't, or they were lucky enough to find the hat, then they deserve an unfair advantage in gameplay? I think that's a stupid idea.

I think set hats should only be including with set effects that have a negative attribute. For example, the Spy Polycount set. It has the 0.5 sec. longer blinking time as a negative. If there was no hat as part of the set, then I wouldn't be able to use the weapons without the negative. But, if the hat is included, then I just don't equip the hat, letting me use the weapons without a negative. Only time, I think.

The Pyro's 10% Speed Buff should be applied as a Buff, not a set Bonus. He needs the mobility desperately seeing as how he has no way to escape Minigun Bulletstorms, Outrun/Catch Up to Scouts, Medics, Spies, and Chargin' Targe Demomen. I personally use the Scattergun, Mad Milk and Bat. The Vanilla Scout loadout is undoubtedly the most useful, but Mad Milk is a very decent Support weapon. Milk for extinguishing self or teammates. One Splash-Two Meatshots and Boom-The enemy is down a very large chunk of health and you're up 150hp. Perfect, IMO.

[QUOTE=Spybreak;26843911]The Pyro's 10% Speed Buff should be applied as a Buff, not a set Bonus. He needs the mobility desperately seeing as how he has no way to escape Minigun Bulletstorms, Outrun/Catch Up to Scouts, Medics, Spies, and Chargin' Targe Demomen. I personally use the Scattergun, Mad Milk and Bat. The Vanilla Scout loadout is undoubtedly the most useful, but Mad Milk is a very decent Support weapon. Milk for extinguishing self or teammates. One Splash-Two Meatshots and Boom-The enemy is down a very large chunk of health and you're up 150hp. Perfect, IMO.[/QUOTE] Pyro avatar. Opinion instantly invalid.

Sets are stupid. Scrap them altogether.

[QUOTE=TraderRager;26843994]Pyro avatar. Opinion instantly invalid.[/QUOTE] Not Opinion as it is Fact, sir. Indeed, I do love the Pyro but I main Scout. Even an EXTREMELY skilled Pyro is Outmatched unless there are favorable circumstances, namely your team actually helping you, all of your enemies having to reload their weapons, or they opposing team just plain sucks. He lacks a significantly powerful Primary Weapon with a highly ineffective mechanic - namely Afterburn which can be neutralized by: Medkits/ A Dropped Sandvich Medics/Ubercharge Resupply Lockers Jarate Airblast Mad Milk Water Dispensers The Dead Ringer (about 10-15% of the time I suppose) It's akin to Pawns versus Knights, Bishops, and Rooks, except the Pawns cannot be Queened. For these reasons, the Pyro is rarely seen in Competitive Play - rather the cookie cutter setup of Scouts, Demomen, Soldiers, Medics are preferred. An Attack Class? I think NOT, SIR.

axtinguisher is your primary now, welcome to the new pyro

[QUOTE=Spybreak;26844166]Not Opinion as it is Fact, sir. Indeed, I do love the Pyro but I main Scout. Even an EXTREMELY skilled Pyro is Outmatched unless there are favorable circumstances, namely your team actually helping you, all of your enemies having to reload their weapons, or they opposing team just plain sucks. He lacks a significantly powerful Primary Weapon with a highly ineffective mechanic - namely Afterburn which can be neutralized by: Medkits/ A Dropped Sandvich Medics/Ubercharge Resupply Lockers Jarate Airblast Mad Milk Water Dispensers The Dead Ringer (about 10-15% of the time I suppose) It's akin to Pawns versus Knights, Bishops, and Rooks, except the Pawns cannot be Queened. For these reasons, the Pyro is rarely seen in Competitive Play - rather the cookie cutter setup of Scouts, Demomen, Soldiers, Medics are preferred. An Attack Class? I think NOT, SIR.[/QUOTE] Valve royally fucked up with pyro as a offensive class, sadly. If they would give afterburn a more disorienting effect like bleed then it would fix everything wrong with him.