Having set hats is a good thing. - Games

@Chilean For me? Indeed it is. Although I think the following Buffs should be experimented in the Beta. Airblast can now be charged, sending Enemies flying back farther - Has no affect against projectiles. Airblast now flips enemies around, allowing the Pyro to escape. (Useful against Heavies) Airblast is now available to the Backburner, costs 25 Ammo, 15% slower Cooldown. Reflected Backburner Projectiles do NOT mini-crit. Pyro's base Speed is now 110% Reflected Projectiles now conflagrate, causing Afterburn to anyone who is damaged by them. Airblast Jump allowed by Pyro - Costs 40 Ammo (only 5 uses) equivalent to Soldier's Rocket Jump. @TraderRager I suggested a Tunnel-Vision style flame effect similar to the Boomer's vision in Left 4 Dead which would block enemy Health, Ammo Count, Damage Indicators, etc.. But it would seem like a Trollish Mechanic much like Sandman Stun and (the former) Natascha Slowdown.

I think the sets should have more balance to them and define another way to play the class instead of merging abilities from other classes. Let's use the recent Heavy set as an example. With the set items, he gains 5% resistance to critical hits, added damage to his primary and melee, as well as gaining (what is essentially) the Crit-a-Cola ability from Scout. However, he loses mobility while firing and 20 HP. A crit sticky or a crit rocket can still finish him rather quickly. Even well placed shots could stop a Heavy while he's using the Sandvich/shotgun replacement. Meanwhile, the Medic's pack actually gives players another way to play without a groundbreaking/game-changing weapon. While the crossbow gives the Medic the ability to snipe, it's not strong enough to encourage plopping down in an area and camping. However, it does solve the problem Medics had of healing teammates who were in need of HP and outside the Medic's reach (long distance healing). Also, the crossbow does not ensure the Medic could survive an attack should he be faced with one. He'll no longer have the ability of healing from enemies that the Blutsauger provided. The saw grants a new ability of group healing, however, Ubercharge can not be easily gained (Ubersaw) or partially saved (Vita-saw) upon death. The +1 HP regeneration doesn't add much either, but is more or less an incentive to use the pack and guarantee a higher rate of survivability. In short, Valve should work towards sets solving certain problems of classes but have the old ways become downsides. (Medic gets long distance and group healing, loses abilities of gaining Ubercharge quickly/saving part of it and surviving direct combat)

[QUOTE=chain_letter;26834558]That's one hasty generalization there. The biggest problem is that the set hats were added into TF2's ZOMG HATS culture, instead of as a mechanic that benefits the overall gameplay.[/QUOTE]The problem is really that cosmetic items were never supposed to have mechanics. The fact that normal hats doesn't give you an advantage, while equipping a set hat does give you an advantage, gives you an unfair advantage over anyone that does not own that cosmetic. [QUOTE=chain_letter;26834558]If the set hats were the first hats added, then there wouldn't have been any of those problems in the first place.[/QUOTE] If there never was a hat slot, and hats were equipped upon equipping all the set items, then yes, there would have been no problems with set hats. However since set hats are items that are rare, and can be equipped in a specific slot where no other item will give you a bonus effect, that makes it an unfair advantage and would have been an unfair advantage even if implemented before normal hats without effects. Let me give you a non TF2 example to compare to: If we both put on elbow and knee protection, I put on a top hat, then you put on a helmet, are we then equally protected when we go biking?

[QUOTE=Spybreak;26844166]For these reasons, the Pyro is rarely seen in Competitive Play - rather the cookie cutter setup of Scouts, Demomen, Soldiers, Medics are preferred.[/QUOTE] By that logic the Heavy, Engineer, Sniper and Spy should also be buffed. [editline]21st December 2010[/editline] Also, Axtinguisher Pyros are already terribly annoying.

[QUOTE=Tabarnaco;26845434]By that logic the Heavy, Engineer, Sniper and Spy should also be buffed.[/QUOTE] A point I must agree with. Just competitive players doesn't use a class doesn't mean the class isn't powerful enough, it just means the class isn't very well suited for their style of playing the game.

[QUOTE=Tabarnaco;26845434]By that logic the Heavy, Engineer, Sniper and Spy should also be buffed. [editline]21st December 2010[/editline] Also, Axtinguisher Pyros are already terribly annoying.[/QUOTE] Heavy, Engineer, Sniper and Spy are also seen in Competitive Play albeit less frequently. The Pyro isn't suited for any real duty rather than a Medium-Useful Support class. IE Spychecking, Protecting Engineers. Ambushing is more suited to The Scout and The Spy rather than the Pyro. I can't stand the whole monotonous routine of - Burn, Burn, Reflect Kill, Die, Afterburn Kill, Respawn, Rinse, Repeat. @Simski I do agree, however the Pyro could use a Skill-Ceiling buff. Airblast is a decent mechanic but isn't the answer for everything. The Backburner, my GOD. This is honestly the most vile weapon I have ever encountered. While it does make Ambushing a relatively viable mechanic, it's honestly just a rage-inducing 'WM+1 Noob Weapon' The Vanilla Pyro loadout is easily the weakest of all 9 Classes. My Loadout Degreaser - Heavily Increases damage Output - Airblast included. Shotgun - Hitscan weapon, good for Close to Medium Range attacks. Axtinguisher - It does 195 Damage in one swing. Derp.

The Medic set bonus is good, though.

[QUOTE=Spybreak;26845849]The Pyro isn't suited for any real duty rather than a Medium-Useful Support class. IE Spychecking, Protecting Engineers.[/QUOTE] I find Pyro to be a good jack-of-all trades. He's viable in almost every situation, his only real counters being Heavies and Sentries. People call Soldier the jack-of-all trades, however I still think Pyro is the real jack of all trades. The Soldier is a better combat class than Pyro, and therefor better at offense and also very good at defense. However Pyro is still viable in these areas, and he has more supportive capabilities. The Soldier packs more power than the Pyro, but the Pyro has more general usages. He can be used moderately efficiently in offense combat, and his supportive capabilities makes him both more useful for protecting his teammates, and further improves his defensive capabilities. Simply put, as a Pyro you can be useful wherever you see fit.

[QUOTE=Simski;26846494]I find Pyro to be a good jack-of-all trades. He's viable in almost every situation, his only real counters being Heavies and Sentries. People call Soldier the jack-of-all trades, however I still think Pyro is the real jack of all trades. The Soldier is a better combat class than Pyro, and therefor better at offense and also very good at defense. However Pyro is still viable in these areas, and he has more supportive capabilities. The Soldier packs more power than the Pyro, but the Pyro has more general usages. He can be used moderately efficiently in offense combat, and his supportive capabilities makes him both more useful for protecting his teammates, and further improves his defensive capabilities. Simply put, as a Pyro you can be useful wherever you see fit.[/QUOTE] Sorry, I'd have to disagree. Mainly due to the Pyro's weapons and Characteristics. 100% Speed 175 Health The Flamethrower - approx. 150 damage Per Second, VERY short Range, Afterburn is highly Ineffective against High Health classes. The Shotgun - Probably the most balanced weapon in the game, has to be relied on to finish enemies off The Fire Axe - Pretty much garbage compared to the Axtinguisher. The Soldier is definitely more of a Jack of All Trades than the Pyro. High health, very Heavy Damage at Medium to Close Range, and Medics are much more inclined to Pocket-Heal them rather than Pyros.

I've never though of it that way, I'd be fine with the set hats if they were about as common as weapons.

Set Hats, Set Hats EVERYWHAR

[QUOTE=Spybreak;26846844]The Fire Axe - Pretty much garbage compared to the Axtinguisher.[/QUOTE] :colbert:

[QUOTE=Spybreak;26846844]Sorry, I'd have to disagree. Mainly due to the Pyro's weapons and Characteristics. 100% Speed 175 Health The Flamethrower - approx. 150 damage Per Second, VERY short Range, Afterburn is highly Ineffective against High Health classes. The Shotgun - Probably the most balanced weapon in the game, has to be relied on to finish enemies off The Fire Axe - Pretty much garbage compared to the Axtinguisher. The Soldier is definitely more of a Jack of All Trades than the Pyro. High health, very Heavy Damage at Medium to Close Range, and Medics are much more inclined to Pocket-Heal them rather than Pyros.[/QUOTE] I meant more the current Pyro with Axstinguisher and Degreaser, I won't argue that the Flamethrower isn't underpowered and the Fire Axe only useful under water or against enemy Pyros. However contrary to your loadout, I use the Flaregun. This weapon gives me a way of protecting myself at all ranges, finishing off fleeing enemies, and distracting Snipers. It grants me further mobility by making me not severely vulnerable at range and when traveling across open spaces. The airblast protects me against classes with projectiles like Soldiers, Demomen and Snipers, but the Flaregun protects me against the rest. This allows me to more safely travel towards my enemy. The Shotgun is better if you meet the enemy in close range or under water, or if they're an enemy Pyro, but that's just what makes the Flaregun such a balanced sidegrade.

heavy's set is hella fun, soldier's is just ridiculous although i do find myself using the fists of steel more often than the bear hands.

[QUOTE=Spybreak;26846844]The Fire Axe - Pretty much garbage compared to the Axtinguisher.[/QUOTE] The Fire Axe is very useful. It allows you to silently ambush people, instead of coming in, using your noisy flamethrower, trying to whip out another weapon, and hopefully hit them. I also seem to get a lot of crits with it, which is always useful.

[QUOTE=Shounic;26842042]i [b]only[/b] use that. only recently have i tried using the shotgun[/QUOTE] So you never used a shotgun? Try to beat me. My airshot kills count is at 23 now :buddy:

[QUOTE=Max of S2D;26833472]The main problem is that you actually NEED the hat to enable the set, instead of it being a direct result of equipping all three pieces of inventory together[/QUOTE] Hats were meant to be a cosmetic feature; in my opinion the set hats should [i][b]stay[/i][/b] that way. We need to bug Valve to make the set hats do nothing at all.

The Black Box and Backup suit each other perfectly - it allows a Soldier to keep himself alive so he doesn't die from the damage he needs to take. I use the full set all the time. -20% sentry damage is stupid though.

[QUOTE=Spybreak;26846844]Sorry, I'd have to disagree. Mainly due to the Pyro's weapons and Characteristics. 100% Speed 175 Health The Flamethrower - approx. 150 damage Per Second, VERY short Range, Afterburn is highly Ineffective against High Health classes. The Shotgun - Probably the most balanced weapon in the game, has to be relied on to finish enemies off The Fire Axe - Pretty much garbage compared to the Axtinguisher. The Soldier is definitely more of a Jack of All Trades than the Pyro. High health, very Heavy Damage at Medium to Close Range, and Medics are much more inclined to Pocket-Heal them rather than Pyros.[/QUOTE] Learn to airblast and Soldiers and Demomen will be nothing to worry about. Plus it extinguishes allies on fire. Plus the Homewrecker destroys sappers. Plus it's pretty much the best class to spy-check. [editline]21st December 2010[/editline] Whether "Medics are much more inclined to Pocket-Heal them" is completely irrelevant too.

[QUOTE=Tabarnaco;26857009]Learn to airblast and Soldiers and Demomen will be nothing to worry about. Plus it extinguishes allies on fire. Plus the Homewrecker destroys sappers. Plus it's pretty much the best class to spy-check.[/QUOTE] I use the Degreaser since the Backburner is complete crap and the Flamethrower doesn't have the Super-Speed Weapon Switch. Homewrecker is pretty much only good if you want to play Engie Pet and of Course the Pyro is the best at Spychecking. I said earlier that the Pyro is classified as an Offensive class but his true role is stuck as a Medium-Useful Support Class. The only real problems I have are with Sticky Launcher Demomen at Mid-Long range, Direct Hit Soldiers, and ESPECIALLY Heavies. The Brass Beast is pretty deadly, and the Airblast doesn't help much when you're out in the open. If Airblast had the added effect of Flipping puffed enemies 180 Degrees around, the Pyro might have a chance :l

Mjeh, I don't quite agree that he's a "medium-useful support class". I agree that he isn't an offensive class, but he is capable of offensive play, and he is very useful in defensive play.

[QUOTE=Spybreak;26857164]The Brass Beast is pretty deadly, and the Airblast doesn't help much when you're out in the open.[/QUOTE] Well Pyros aren't very effective at all "out in the open" anyway, seeing as they're a close-range class. [editline]21st December 2010[/editline] Oh also, besides well-placed stickies the airblast is pretty much the best way to get rid of Übers.

The Pyro has three main weaknesses- Lack of a powerful Primary Weapon - Flamethrower is very weak, has very short range, and Afterburn is a complete joke now due to all it's counters. Lack of Survivability - The Pyro has to venture very close to the enemy to do any damage which is usually his downfall, due to Heavies and Sentry Guns. Lack of Mobility - The Scout - 133% Speed combined with Double Jump The Soldier - 80% Speed - maxes out at 128% with the Equalizer - Rocket Jumps The Demoman - 93% Speed - maxes out at 123% with The Eyelander (not a huge deal) Sticky Jumping Capabilities - Two VERY powerful Projectile Weapons. The Pyro - 100% Speed - 110% with Gas Jockey Set (10% Bullet Vunerability only lets Heavies kill you faster) has no advanced Mobility skills. The Heavy really is the 'King of CQC' - 450 DPS at close range + No need to Reload, Personal Medkit (Sandvich) - and 107% Speed when using the GRU. The Buffalo Steak Sandvich + GRU actually speeds him up to approx. 133% Speed, equivalent to a Scout.

[QUOTE=Spybreak;26857164]If Airblast had the added effect of Flipping puffed enemies 180 Degrees around, the Pyro might have a chance :l[/QUOTE] no just no It already renders the target pretty much immobile till they hit the ground again 133.3% actually. I did a speedtest with a Scout once and I ran ahead of him just a little bit. It's enough to run up to a lone, wounded scout and kill him without him even knowing it. I do agree though that the Pyro needs more tools to increase his usefulness.

[QUOTE=Recurracy;26857981]no just no It already renders the target pretty much immobile till they hit the ground again[/QUOTE] Shoving a Heavy back a few feet isn't going to stop the bullet-storm to your face, and even if you're focusing on an Uber it leaves you open to the Enemy's Teammates.

[QUOTE=FuhFuhFresh;26856502]The Black Box and Backup suit each other perfectly.[/QUOTE] except that they have clipping issues.

[QUOTE=Lolkork;26848442]I think the crossbow isn't worth the +1 health generation outside medival, since it has a poor damage output compared to the syringe gun, you will probably last longer if you don't have anyone to heal whilst using the blutshauger or syringe gun. [editline]derp[/editline] Though I play a lot of arena and deathmatch, so I don't always have a team to rely on.[/QUOTE] I like the crossbow a lot (more than the syringe gun) but I agree, it's too weak.

[QUOTE=A B.A. Survivor;26841466]You're saying that I should be a Scout using the Scattergun or Force-a-Nature all the time.[/QUOTE] Play with whatever you are having the must fun with, that's what I'm saying. For me it is the FaN.. recently though I've been playing with the Scattergun and it is fucking awesome too! Some white-painted tosslecap shortstopper came at me, trying to stun me and all.. well you can just imagine the rest He quit.

[QUOTE=Zanpa;26834716]Yeah, you seem to really not play a lot of Scout.[/QUOTE] Get off your high horse. You are not the best Scout player the world has ever seen. You are not allowed to dictate what is a good weapon and what isn't.

[QUOTE=Spybreak;26857842]The Pyro has three main weaknesses- Lack of a powerful Primary Weapon - Flamethrower is very weak, has very short range, and Afterburn is a complete joke now due to all it's counters. Lack of Survivability - The Pyro has to venture very close to the enemy to do any damage which is usually his downfall, due to Heavies and Sentry Guns. Lack of Mobility - The Scout - 133% Speed combined with Double Jump The Soldier - 80% Speed - maxes out at 128% with the Equalizer - Rocket Jumps The Demoman - 93% Speed - maxes out at 123% with The Eyelander (not a huge deal) Sticky Jumping Capabilities - Two VERY powerful Projectile Weapons. The Pyro - 100% Speed - 110% with Gas Jockey Set (10% Bullet Vunerability only lets Heavies kill you faster) has no advanced Mobility skills. The Heavy really is the 'King of CQC' - 450 DPS at close range + No need to Reload, Personal Medkit (Sandvich) - and 107% Speed when using the GRU. The Buffalo Steak Sandvich + GRU actually speeds him up to approx. 133% Speed, equivalent to a Scout.[/QUOTE] I hugely disagree with the weak primary weapon,as a Spy and Soldier main,it hurts in the ass of encountering with a Pyro,when i go to tunnels,there's a 60% chance that a pyro can come out of there and burn my ass,it's even worse with pyros putting you on fire and airblasting you upwards and as soon as you come down,you're already dead because of the axtinguisher