[QUOTE=geel9;23069179]Furthermore, why are you posting this here? You are arguing for the sake of arguing.[/QUOTE]
Because it's fun. And really, I want to know why it's OK for weapons to be controlled by random chance. It baffles me why Valve continues to not add achievements or hand them out in one go. If I get called a troll OK, I'm prepared to accept that if I get an answer, and if I do, I'll concede.
[QUOTE=Overseer No. 2;23069174]The fact Valve has not given us a 100% certain way to get the community unlocks is proof enough. This is without random drops.
Next?
Oh, btw, this is my backpack- [url]http://www.tf2items.com/id/Numenor[/url][/QUOTE]
Valve never said that weapons were to give players an unfair advantage, they said it was to give them a new play style for that class.
[QUOTE=Overseer No. 2;23069174]The fact Valve has not given us a 100% certain way to get the community unlocks is proof enough. This is without random drops.[/QUOTE]
You can craft the community unlocks.
So why would you try to stop people from getting the new content they have always been getting for the past year?
[quote]1) You're not overloaded with new maps. Imagine logging on and having to pick between 5 maps- new players would quit the game, and old players, well, 5 maps, that's a lot of choice. This way, you're slowly introduced to each one.[/quote]
[b][i]OH SHIT THERE'S 6 MAPS TO CHOOSE FROM! :byodood: I QUIT! I CAN'T TAKE THIS ANYMORE! SCREW YOU TF2 I'M DONE WITH YOU! :argh:[/b][/i]
[QUOTE=admiral_Cola;23069247]You can craft the community unlocks.[/QUOTE]
Weapon A is crafted from weapons B and C.
Weapons B and C can only be gotten though random drops, or achievements once.
So, either-
*You craft your last weapon. You are back with a disadvantage.
*You wait for a random drop.
You see how crafting isn't that great?
[editline]02:20AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Uber_Tofu;23069232]Valve never said that weapons were to give players an unfair advantage, they said it was to give them a new play style for that class.[/QUOTE]
Say that to the equaliser.
Or the ubersaw.
Or the pain train.
A lot of weapons are upgrades. Some are useful a lot of the time, more than their originals. If all weapons were useful everywhere, there'd be no problem. Fact is, that ain't true. See above.
[editline]02:20AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Street_Wolf;23069292][b][i]OH SHIT THERE'S 6 MAPS TO CHOOSE FROM! :byodood: I QUIT! I CAN'T TAKE THIS ANYMORE! SCREW YOU TF2 I'M DONE WITH YOU! :argh:[/b][/i][/QUOTE]
This is poking fun at Valve's idea that new players would be overloaded with weapon choices. It's not a strong arguement granted, it requires the other two points to add weight to my arguement.
is the point to ask for all of the weapons at the beginning?
[QUOTE=admiral_Cola;23069374]is the point to ask for all of the weapons at the beginning?[/QUOTE]
Yes. Valve really need to a) Give us weapons as they're released. We create a level playing field, and no-one misses out, like I did (8 weeks) for Crit-a-Cola.
Or b) Give all weapons an achievement. It isn't perfect (You really shouldn't have to grind to get content in an FPS), but at least there is a way to collect items without random chance involved, at all.
If they did the all at once policy, the game would get boring fast.
[QUOTE=admiral_Cola;23069429]If they did the all at once policy, the game would get boring fast.[/QUOTE]
OK, so they don't give weapons out in one go.
But then you're OK about maps? Wouldn't a map get dull fast? Wouldn't it be better to spread the maps over a few months? Hell, I'm still having fun with Crit-a-Cola.
Also, the arguement that getting all the weapons wouldn't be fun suggests one plays TF2 for item drops. This is TF2, not Drop-Fortress 2. Drops should not be a person's primary motivation for playing this game.
[QUOTE=Overseer No. 2;23069417]Yes. Valve really need to a) Give us weapons as they're released. We create a level playing field, and no-one misses out, like I did (8 weeks) for Crit-a-Cola.
Or b) Give all weapons an achievement. It isn't perfect (You really shouldn't have to grind to get content in an FPS), but at least there is a way to collect items without random chance involved, at all.[/QUOTE]
Or C) Flood the system with more weapons than backpack slots, implement trading so players choose/trade for the weapons that they like best.
[QUOTE=Damoman;23069475]Or C) Flood the system with more weapons than backpack slots, implement trading so players choose/trade for the weapons that they like best.[/QUOTE]
Trading would help for sure, but why bother going though the trading process when it could be as simple as "Here are your toys- save trading for hats."
Because really, we all know trading is only going to be about hats. At least, I hope to God that's all it's gonna be about.
[QUOTE=Overseer No. 2;23069417]Yes. Valve really need to a) Give us weapons as they're released. We create a level playing field, and no-one misses out, like I did (8 weeks) for Crit-a-Cola.
Or b) Give all weapons an achievement. It isn't perfect (You really shouldn't have to grind to get content in an FPS), but at least there is a way to collect items without random chance involved, at all.[/QUOTE]
Most online FPS' do have you grind for content AFAIK.
Well you can get used to a certain class before you get the new weapons for one.
[QUOTE]I challenge anyone who believes we shouldn't just be given all the weapons but still thinks this is a dumb idea. I'mma talkin' to you box lovers![/QUOTE]
Hmm, well to get guns you have to fight for them or make them, but TF2 maps are mostly 50% RED territory and 50% BLU territory. Why would you get hired as a merc to fight if you can't go to x place and fight?
He literally removed all of the subtlety from the original version of this piece, and people are [i]still[/i] taking it at face value?
God [i]damn[/i].
[QUOTE=Batmoutarde;23069521]Well you can get used to a certain class before you get the new weapons for one.[/QUOTE]
This is a good question. But, here's a solution-
Add more tips. The TF2 team has already added in a load of tips for new players- a simple
"Hey, why not try these weapons first before trying the other weapons this class has to offer?"
And as for vetran TF2 players... well, we really don't need that much re-education, do we? :p
[QUOTE=Pennywise;23069568]He literally removed all of the subtlety from the original version of this piece, and people are [i]still[/i] taking it at face value?
God [i]damn[/i].[/QUOTE]
I read far too much Private Eye than is good for me! :)
OP Please leave. Your just pulling all this information out your ass. There is a drop system, and a crafting system. That way you can get multiple copys of each item if you are lucky. They're are also items granted by achievements. And since crafting, and random item drops are the way we get weapons, and you think weapons are unfair advantages well... Maybe you should stop playing tf2 Its a game about WAR. There are going to be advantages and disadvantages its how you face them that determines your skill.
[QUOTE=Mega Tuna;23069587]OP Please leave. Your just pulling all this information out your ass. There is a drop system, and a crafting system. That way you can get multiple copys of each item if you are lucky. They're are also items granted by achievements. And since crafting, and random item drops are the way we get weapons, and you think weapons are unfair advantages well... Maybe you should stop playing tf2 Its a game about WAR. There are going to be advantages and disadvantages its how you face them that determines your skill.[/QUOTE]
What info am I pulling out of my arse?
There is a drop system. All random.
There is a craft system. Which relies on random drops.
The achievements only offer one copy of a weapon. Crafting it away just puts you in another disadvantageous position.
I face situations differently- lots of spies? Go homewrecker. Lots of heavies? Axtinguisher. Lots of water? May be worth using the old axe.
Part of the skill comes from picking the right weapon for the right job, wouldn't you agree? You're an idiot to go DH soldier with 4 enemy scouts to face.
And I do love TF2, regardless of how much I moan. I only do it because I want to see it improve :(
[QUOTE=CrazyBaconLegs;23068678]This is ridiculous, people would be unable to play if a server switched to the map.
Or worse, kicked. That's just silly.
You should not be excluded from gameplay just for not having an item.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. This Would Just Start Another Flame War.
[QUOTE=GameDev;23069639]Exactly. This Would Just Start Another Flame War.[/QUOTE]
Why Are You Writing Like This?
[QUOTE=Overseer No. 2;23069294]
Say that to the equaliser. [B]Yeah a weapon only useful when under 40 health is OP as fuck, right?[/B]
Or the ubersaw. [B]I personally prefer my melee swinging speed on "High" so i can actually hit people, thank you very much[/B]
Or the pain train. [B]Hmm, having scout-like capping speed? Straight upgrade, but not OP or really too unfair. Taking more damage from bullets? Balanced.[/B]
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=latin_geek;23069661][/QUOTE]
I like to run away at scout speed to save my skin when low on health. It's saved me from afterburn I don't know how many times.
OK. You rely on poor aim and high swing, I'll go for 50% uber on a spy with better aim.
Pain train is the shitz, I agree there. Though bullet extra damage only amounts to about 20HP/18HP less for soldiers/demomen from bullet weaponry, so it's not that gimped.
I am actually going to read all of sun tzu's quotes to get one that can make the OP shut up.
But the point is that none of those weapons are an "unfair advantage"
[QUOTE=Mega Tuna;23069720]I am actually going to read all of sun tzu's quotes to get one that can make the OP shut up.[/QUOTE]
Good :) I'll be glad to get a straight answer so I can stop rebutting all these arguements.
The point is that maps are required to play, unlocks are optional.
[editline]09:43PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Overseer No. 2;23069743]Good :) I'll be glad to get a straight answer so I can stop rebutting all these arguements.[/QUOTE]
You rebut nothing, you just refuse to listen to reason.
Wow. Why can't you see this idea is bad?
Yes. You need to unlock weapons to use them, ok sure I've been waiting for a god damn huntsman for weeks. But I still play Sniper. But with the tokens. Its like "Wow this map looks great! People keep talking about how good it is t- OH WAIT I CAN'T PLAY!" with not having a huntsman "I wish I had a huntsman, its fun being a normal sniper but I love the huntsman...Oh well at least I can play this fun map and go to different classes."
Yes I love playing this map, but I want to try the other maps.... Wait I can't. And you said your self its random. What if you hate 3 out of 5 maps. Chances are you will be stuck with those 3 maps you hate or no maps at all. Why limit a game thats perfectly limited as it is. Yea I can play any map I want, but I need to wait for weapons. Sure thats fine with me.
Look lets just end this discussion, your trying to save your ass now by being "master troll" or some shit. While you came in here with a dumb idea, and now you try to defend your self.
[QUOTE=latin_geek;23069732]But the point is that none of those weapons are an "unfair advantage"[/QUOTE]
The pain train is. If you have a team of soldiers/ demos with the pain train vs a team without, who'll cap faster? Pain train is a sidegrade in my eyes, vs the equaliser, but not to be allowed it during PL/CP maps? It'd be silly.
So uh... why do we need map tokens? I'm just gonna use them for this: 3x token of any kind = 1 reclaimed
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