Let's balance the weapons! What do you say? - Games

[QUOTE=Killajax;26992068]This thing is overpowered enough.[/QUOTE] Is it? What's your reasoning?

[QUOTE=mutated;26991615] It definitely needs some sort of downside; the lack of a Syringe Gun isn't enough.[/QUOTE] Yes it is.

[QUOTE=Token Indian;26992557]Here's my take on it: The Scout: Sandman: Needs a revamp. Right now, it has no defined goal, what do I do with this? Toss a ball to kill this guy? It's debuff is too controversial. The stunball should do no slowdown, and whoever is stunned take 50% less damage. Granted, this made it useless, but now increase the duration by a bit, maybe 2-3 seconds. This effectively corrects it from a free kill to a useful tool. Scouts dominate in one on one combat, and this aids him, while still keeping the negative of lower max health. It encourages to take them out one by one, and not shoot the one that's stunned. The only way to kill someone stunned, is to chase them down, or get a teammate which = teamwork. Finally decrease the home-run total stun minimum range by a little so it's less of a gimmick achievement. Another thing is maybe remove a lost ball once another it's recharged to save fps. Tf2 needs that badly.[/QUOTE] The original stun did something similar to this. The problem was that a Scout would hit someone while someone else was in close combat with him, which meant that if the stun duration was short enough or the teammate was caught reloading, he couldn't kill him (because of the 50% reduction). It became an anti-team weapon, which was no fun. The lost ball DOES disappear. [url]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Sandman[/url] "A baseball that does not hit an enemy will remain on the ground and disappear after 15 seconds"

How about this for weapon balance; All people with the Steam ID of "mutatedman" will have their weapons do 0% damage. All people with the Steam ID of "mutatedman" will have 100% damage vulnerability.

Make the Sydney Sleeper fun to use again. I adored using it with the Sola Topi. Now, it's just like why

How about make the Jarate application from Sydney like 4 seconds? That would give a heavymedic time to go in and probably clean out an area. 8 seconds is way too long in fast-paced combat like TF2's own.

[QUOTE=Bittersweet;26992805]Make the Sydney Sleeper fun to use again. I adored using it with the Sola Topi. Now, it's just like why[/QUOTE] What exactly happened to it? [editline]27th December 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=Sabrina;26992834]How about make the Jarate application from Sydney like 4 seconds? That would give a heavymedic time to go in and probably clean out an area. 8 seconds is way too long in fast-paced combat like TF2's own.[/QUOTE] So basically, you are halving the only reason anyone would use the Sleeper has over the Sniper Rifle?

The Degreaser wouldn't need a airblast nerf, it's perfectly fine as it is.

The Kritzkrieg is fine as it is.

The only items that are really imbalanced are the Dalokahs Bar and several of the new community weapons. Pretty much every weapon made by Valve themselves has been rebalanced quite a bit.

[QUOTE=mutated;26992695]The original stun did something similar to this. The problem was that a Scout would hit someone while someone else was in close combat with him, which meant that if the stun duration was short enough or the teammate was caught reloading, he couldn't kill him (because of the 50% reduction). It became an anti-team weapon, which was no fun. The lost ball DOES disappear. [URL="http://%3Ca%20href=%22http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Sandman%22%20target=%22_blank%22%3Ehttp://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Sandman%3C/a%3E"][/URL][URL]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Sandman[/URL] "A baseball that does not hit an enemy will remain on the ground and disappear after 15 seconds"[/QUOTE] I see your point, however the stun duration is increased from the base as it is now by 2-3 seconds, making him retreat. All the ball does is make it a one-on-one. Maybe the damage reduction could be reduced over time, to show who one the fight. Let's say I stun a Medic that's healing a Soldier. Attacking the Medic would not be a bright idea. He takes less damage and his friend Pvt. Haircut would finish me off. However if I attack the Soldier while his Medic buddy can't do much, I have a higher chance of winning, as Scouts tend to lean toward single opponents. If I win the fight I can chase after the Medic and finish him off. If I lose then nothing much happened. Cool, the ball does go away. It really needs to make disappear if you touch a resupply cabinet is what I meant. Just bad wording on my part.

NERF BUFFS VALVE NAO basically

Anyone who thinks the Flare Gun needs to be changed is dumb. Easily the most balanced weapon in the game.

I saw this before in an earlier thread about sets... [QUOTE=Elizer;26844340]I think the sets should have more balance to them and define another way to play the class instead of merging abilities from other classes. Let's use the recent Heavy set as an example. With the set items, he gains 5% resistance to critical hits, added damage to his primary and melee, as well as gaining (what is essentially) the Crit-a-Cola ability from Scout. However, he loses mobility while firing and 20 HP. A crit sticky or a crit rocket can still finish him rather quickly. Even well placed shots could stop a Heavy while he's using the Sandvich/shotgun replacement. Meanwhile, the Medic's pack actually gives players another way to play without a groundbreaking/game-changing weapon. While the crossbow gives the Medic the ability to snipe, it's not strong enough to encourage plopping down in an area and camping. However, it does solve the problem Medics had of healing teammates who were in need of HP and outside the Medic's reach (long distance healing). Also, the crossbow does not ensure the Medic could survive an attack should he be faced with one. He'll no longer have the ability of healing from enemies that the Blutsauger provided. The saw grants a new ability of group healing, however, Ubercharge can not be easily gained (Ubersaw) or partially saved (Vita-saw) upon death. The +1 HP regeneration doesn't add much either, but is more or less an incentive to use the pack and guarantee a higher rate of survivability. In short, Valve should work towards sets solving certain problems of classes but have the old ways become downsides. (Medic gets long distance and group healing, loses abilities of gaining Ubercharge quickly/saving part of it and surviving direct combat)[/QUOTE] As for weapons being balanced, I'd rather see Valve fix it. Or at least put suggestions/variants of questionably balanced weapons in the Beta. I'm pretty sure they made a public Beta for that reason alone.

[quote]Blutsauger - Change the nerf to healing rate (only -1 per second? alter the ramp so it takes twice as long to heal?) Kritzkrieg - I know this weapon is older than dirt, but why not extend the time for an Ubercharge or buff the charge rate slightly? Ubersaw - Once again, much contested. Decrease the swing rate further. Add only 10, 15, or 20% ubercharge. Only add the ubercharge if it's an Ubersaw kill. Work with those.[/quote] The Medic Update weapons are the most balanced weapons in the game. They are perfectly balanced. Are you stupid?

I always wondered why it is that the FaN doesn't have a secondary, double barrel attack. I kinda thought that when it was first announced that's what made it's user fly backwards. Y'know, like one shot is like a regular scattergun shot with it's extra pellets and slight damage nerf, but then the double barrel shot makes you and your target recoil extremely violently.

[QUOTE=killz2much;26993861]The Medic Update weapons are the most balanced weapons in the game. They are perfectly balanced. Are you stupid?[/QUOTE] Agreed. Though the Ubersaw is pretty much a buff unless you're in some type of melee only match. But that's more of a buff the Bonesaw thing than a nerf the ubersaw.

[QUOTE=killz2much;26993861]The Medic Update weapons are the most balanced weapons in the game. They are perfectly balanced. Are you stupid?[/QUOTE] Only Ubersaw could use a change. Really there's not much reason to use the Bonesaw these days. If you time your shots the increased swing speed won't mean much.

[QUOTE=Keychain;26994040]Only Ubersaw could use a change. Really there's not much reason to use the Bonesaw these days. If you time your shots the increased swing speed won't mean much.[/QUOTE] Though the same argument can be applied to the Fire Ax or Shovel. The only time where those melee weapons shine are melee only. I honestly think they should give a minor buff to the weapons like what they did with the Syringe gun.

The Jag is perfect, the southern hospitality is for more damage, not the Jag.

these are all awful ideas leave this shit to the people who know what the fuck they are doing

[QUOTE=tehMuffinMan;26994129]The Jag is perfect, the southern hospitality is for more damage, not the Jag.[/QUOTE] Here's pretty much the purpose I see for every wrench: The Wrench - An all around melee weapon with Random crits, something which can save your life in a pinch. The Southern Hospitality - A melee weapon with the ability to spycheck, but you lose your random criticals as a shortcoming. The Jag - Faster building at the shortcoming of a melee that is efficient in combat. The Gunslinger - Lose your sentry for an all around combat Engineer. All of the Engie items are balanced pretty much.

Why would you want to buff the Shortstop. You trade raw damage output for more versatility at medium range, which only adds to the Scout's supreme dodging abilities.

[QUOTE=caesium;26994331]Why would you want to buff the Shortstop. You trade raw damage output for more versatility at medium range, which only adds to the Scout's supreme dodging abilities.[/QUOTE] This. The shortstop's slowdown is extremely negligible, but that's really not the purpose of the weapon.

[QUOTE=Samiam22;26992893]What exactly happened to it?[/QUOTE] Penetration of multiple targets and random crits were both removed in a patch. [editline]27th December 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=kamikaze470;26992948]The Degreaser wouldn't need a airblast nerf, it's perfectly fine as it is.[/QUOTE] Thing is, do you use the Flamethrower? You either Backburn if you're looking for raw damage or you (much more likely) roll Degreaser and change weapons like a mofo.

[QUOTE=mutated;26994430] Thing is, do you use the Flamethrower? You either Backburn if you're looking for raw damage or you (much more likely) roll Degreaser and change weapons like a mofo.[/QUOTE] I often use the flamethrower on defense to drive the attackers back with the afterburn damage.

[QUOTE=killz2much;26993861]The Medic Update weapons are the most balanced weapons in the game. They are perfectly balanced. Are you stupid?[/QUOTE] Blutsauger is worse in general use. The lower your health gets, the more vulnerable you are, and fighting back to regenerate health isn't always an option (and tends to cut back on healing your teammates). It's not wildly awful, but could use a bump up. All I'm saying is that the Kritzkrieg could use a small, minor buff. Again, its use in general play is more limited as compared to the Medigun. May as well make it charge faster and fill its niche even better. Ubersaw is blatently better than the Bonesaw outside of Medieval Mode. All the Medic's melees are (the same problem that the Pyro, and to an extent the Soldier, has) grossly overpowered, but balanced with each other. Ruining a perfectly good stock weapon's usefulness is something I wish wouldn't have happened. [editline]27th December 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=tehMuffinMan;26994129]The Jag is perfect, the southern hospitality is for more damage, not the Jag.[/QUOTE] When I was throwing around Jag ideas, I was taking the idea of "less damage, but bleed AND you can spycheck" into consideration. If SH remains the strongest damaging wrench, then the Jag's build speed needs to rise further and its damage lowered (as right now it doesn't do much to either). [editline]27th December 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=Antary;26994471]I often use the flamethrower on defense to drive the attackers back with the afterburn damage.[/QUOTE] Which is valid. The problem is that the decreased burn damage often doesn't make a damn bit of difference; according to the wiki, the total afterburn of the Flamethrower is 60, while the Degreaser is 45. You're giving up the [i]possibility[/i] of 15 more damage points (because of things like Jarate, Milk, water, etc.) for a much deadlier Pyro in direct combat. [editline]27th December 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;26991604]You just suck The pyro melee weapons are supposed to be strong because his class is close quarters-you'll take a load of damage anyway because the flamethrower and the melee weapons work best at close range; it's a matter of accuracy Ubersaw is fine-attack for a quick Uber boost and find a partner to charge; it supports the supporting/pushing role of the medic Amputator needs a con-but already you're a fucking easy target taunting and you're dead if your teammates die Bonk is situational really-use it to get behind the front lines then fuck with the team-supports flanking Mad Milk can be used like jarate-throw and run; it's initial usefulness is based on primary weapon accuracy Direct Hit-It was MADE to reward airshooting enemies, essentially accurate firing, the damage boost is great for attacking sentries and it doesn't need a buff; If anything it shouldn't one hit kill classes (at full health) at close range, annoying as fuck when your a spy or scout-Rewards spamming imo Caber and the sword-Supports hit and run and same problem as Direct Hit; doesn't at all support demolition of buildings Bushwacka is fucking op as hell and it doesn't support sniping OR the set-give it a speed decrease when carried like the original Razorback Frontier Justice-Decrease reload rates[/QUOTE] Pyro melee weapons should be balanced with each other is the point here. Buff the original Fire Axe and you can leave the rest of them alone, for the most part. Otherwise something's got to give, the Fire Axe is literally useless with the addition of the Powerjack and Back Scratcher unless you get a random crit. It's not that the Ubersaw is overpowered in terms of overall gameplay. It's that all the Medic melees are better than the Bonesaw (with the Amputator). Barring the Amputator, Bonesaw is only better than the other two in a melee-only contest. Again, buff the original somehow and everything goes away, or futz with the rest. Direct Hit isn't as useful in general play. This is almost a fact. As with the points I've made with the Kritzkrieg, it may as well fill its niche well. Not sure what the rest of the points are trying to say.

If anyone touches my axetuinguisher I'll fuck them in the ass with my rake.

The whole idea of this thread is flawed. If you really want to fix stuff, first identify and agree on the weapons that have problems (ex. The Shortstop does way too much DPS compared to the Scattergun). Then, once agreed upon, you can start throwing suggestions out to fix it (ex. Increase its reload time. That way you can unload what you have very quickly, but the reload time brings it more in-line with the Scattergun). Please note these suggestions are completely hypothetical. Don't kill me.

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