[QUOTE=165your4;47315966]That's a pretty big generalisation of the trading community. There are a lot of nice traders, and I'm sure there are a lot of nice Strange Kritzkrieg owners too.[/QUOTE]
Nice Strange Kritzkrieg owners would really like their item because its strange and fun to use. Nobody except misers would care about the value if they're not going to sell anytime soon.
[QUOTE=_Pai;47316642]Nice Strange Kritzkrieg owners would really like their item because its strange and fun to use. Nobody except misers would care about the value if they're not going to sell anytime soon.[/QUOTE]
What if the nice owners were going to sell it? And what's wrong with liking something because of its value?
[QUOTE=165your4;47315966]That's a pretty big generalisation of the trading community. There are a lot of nice traders, and I'm sure there are a lot of nice Strange Kritzkrieg owners too.[/QUOTE]
It's a generalisation of a small portion of the trading community. For one thing, the trading community isn't made up of a thousand traders alone.
For another, yes I know there's a nice portion of the community but it doesn't change the fact there's a LOT of greedy ones who hoard expensive items (such as the Kritzkreig) and unusuals which is the portion I was mocking.
[QUOTE=Zenamez;47316931]It's a generalisation of a small portion of the trading community. For one thing, the trading community isn't made up of a thousand traders alone.
For another, yes I know there's a nice portion of the community but it doesn't change the fact there's a LOT of greedy ones who hoard expensive items (such as the Kritzkreig) and unusuals which is the portion I was mocking.[/QUOTE]
There are definitely a lot of greedy traders, but they are just a vocal minority in the trading community. Many people act like people are douchebags just for having valuable backpacks or trading a lot. I'm sure most Strange Kritz owners are nice people.
[QUOTE=165your4;47316916]What if the nice owners were going to sell it? And what's wrong with liking something because of its value?[/QUOTE]
Because many who do this, become arseholes when asked about it because of this "I'm elite/rich enough to own this!". They maybe nice when you talk to them but when you start talking economics, they'll be a different person. A Jekyll and Hyde of the trading world.
Lets not forget many Unusual traders who mindlessly (and stupidly) report people for not dancing by their tune and overpaying through the nose for their unusual. It's pretty common knowledge that admins on outpost delete these 'false' reports but they [I]threaten[/I] potential buyers with it.
How about Alienky? He was banned on Outpost because he used an alt account to artificially boost the price of his unusual trade. His backpack is full of expensive items. He 'likes' Aliens a bit too much but unless you pay 3* the price (because he's arrogant enough to overcharge for items with his name on it) he'll just insult you.
What about that guy who deleted the Golden Pan lately? His backpack is full of bought (using cash - rich parents much?) Austrailiums and unusuals. When asked why he didn't trade away the Pan when he got bored, he replied "I didn't like it so I deleted it". He was also given offers prior to deleting it but insulted anyone who tried.
Yes, there [I]are[/I] 'nice' trading people but they are few and far between. Many expensive items are held under lock and key by ruthless, 100% capitalist traders because expensive items = lotsa profit. To find a nice trader selling an expensive item is like finding money at the bottom of a septic tank. Would you delve in to get £2 (or regional equivalent) even though you can see there's a whole slew of shit on top? Would you [I]truly[/I] enjoy that item after having to wade through false trades and embarrassingly insulting traders? I know I sure as hell wouldn't; it's just not worth the time trying to find a nice enough person who sticks to their buyout and doesn't go "Uhh yeah. I've got this imaginary person I'm talking to and now it's gone from a 1-1 trade to a bidding war. Have fun". That last statement? That has happened to me 3 times over the last 6 months. In all my time trading (which is a lot, even though I don't trade often) I've met around 6 nice people per 20 people trading.
[editline]13th March 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Zenamez;47317054]
*This was typed up just before you replied so many points will be moot since you've said them yourself but FP isn't playing ball and I can't edit my post since the box is blank and any changes don't stick*
Because many who do this, become arseholes when asked about it because of this "I'm elite/rich enough to own this!". They maybe nice when you talk to them but when you start talking economics, they'll be a different person. A Jekyll and Hyde of the trading world.
Lets not forget many Unusual traders who mindlessly (and stupidly) report people for not dancing by their tune and overpaying through the nose for their unusual. It's pretty common knowledge that admins on outpost delete these 'false' reports but they [I]threaten[/I] potential buyers with it.
How about Alienky? He was banned on Outpost because he used an alt account to artificially boost the price of his unusual trade. His backpack is full of expensive items. He 'likes' Aliens a bit too much but unless you pay 3* the price (because he's arrogant enough to overcharge for items with his name on it) he'll just insult you.
What about that guy who deleted the Golden Pan lately? His backpack is full of bought (using cash - rich parents much?) Austrailiums and unusuals. When asked why he didn't trade away the Pan when he got bored, he replied "I didn't like it so I deleted it". He was also given offers prior to deleting it but insulted anyone who tried.
Yes, there [I]are[/I] 'nice' trading people but they are few and far between. Many expensive items are held under lock and key by ruthless, 100% capitalist traders because expensive items = lotsa profit. To find a nice trader selling an expensive item is like finding money at the bottom of a septic tank. Would you delve in to get £2 (or regional equivalent) even though you can see there's a whole slew of shit on top? Would you [I]truly[/I] enjoy that item after having to wade through false trades and embarrassingly insulting traders? I know I sure as hell wouldn't; it's just not worth the time trying to find a nice enough person who sticks to their buyout and doesn't go "Uhh yeah. I've got this imaginary person I'm talking to and now it's gone from a 1-1 trade to a bidding war. Have fun". That last statement? That has happened to me 3 times over the last 6 months. In all my time trading (which is a lot, even though I don't trade often) I've met around 6 nice people per 20 people trading.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Zenamez;47317054]Because many who do this, become arseholes when asked about it because of this "I'm elite/rich enough to own this!". They maybe nice when you talk to them but when you start talking economics, they'll be a different person. A Jekyll and Hyde of the trading world.
Lets not forget many Unusual traders who mindlessly (and stupidly) report people for not dancing by their tune and overpaying through the nose for their unusual. It's pretty common knowledge that admins on outpost delete these 'false' reports but they [I]threaten[/I] potential buyers with it.
How about Alienky? He was banned on Outpost because he used an alt account to artificially boost the price of his unusual trade. His backpack is full of expensive items. He 'likes' Aliens a bit too much but unless you pay 3* the price (because he's arrogant enough to overcharge for items with his name on it) he'll just insult you.
What about that guy who deleted the Golden Pan lately? His backpack is full of bought (using cash - rich parents much?) Austrailiums and unusuals. When asked why he didn't trade away the Pan when he got bored, he replied "I didn't like it so I deleted it". He was also given offers prior to deleting it but insulted anyone who tried.
Yes, there [I]are[/I] 'nice' trading people but they are few and far between. Many expensive items are held under lock and key by ruthless, 100% capitalist traders because expensive items = lotsa profit. To find a nice trader selling an expensive item is like finding money at the bottom of a septic tank. Would you delve in to get £2 (or regional equivalent) even though you can see there's a whole slew of shit on top? Would you [I]truly[/I] enjoy that item after having to wade through false trades and embarrassingly insulting traders? I know I sure as hell wouldn't; it's just not worth the time trying to find a nice enough person who sticks to their buyout and doesn't go "Uhh yeah. I've got this imaginary person I'm talking to and now it's gone from a 1-1 trade to a bidding war. Have fun". That last statement? That has happened to me 3 times over the last 6 months. In all my time trading (which is a lot, even though I don't trade often) I've met around 6 nice people per 20 people trading.
[editline]13th March 2015[/editline][/QUOTE]
But are those people douchebags because they are rich or just because they are douchebags? I've personally very rarely encountered the bad traders everybody talks about, even when selling/buying Unusuals. I know they exist, but in my experience they are a minority. It probably helps that I stay away from sites like Backpack.tf, though. (Which really is shit, but you can never generalise a community by it's largest site, otherwise people would take one look at /r/tf2 and never touch TF2 again)
[QUOTE=Fapplejack;47313273]Based on size in Mb this is a huge update, considering most regular updates are a fraction of the size. It's mostly sounds, but still.[/QUOTE]
Like sheesh, people failing to read the specified reason is bad enough, but it'd be even worse if I didn't even specify why in the first place.
[QUOTE=clearsky;47316042]You can't make money if you don't have customers to buy it.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Kapellmeister;47316238]You can quantify the amount of money generated by taunts but you can't quantify the amount of money generated by "loyal customers gained by adding a map workshop".[/QUOTE]
But taunts do not keep people playing the game. New Maps do. You won't get [B]quick[/B] money, that's true, but the chance is big that people will buy a key or something else from time to time. Of course this does require an in-game shop which is already there or something similar to DLCs. In end, you could make even more money with this.
Of course it takes testing, but let's be honest: There are a ton of great community maps which fit great into the game and are considered as balanced, especially the competitive maps. I think if they would invest more time into testing those instead of creating taunt workshops, cart racing mini games and all that other stuff nobody wants, the game would be a lot better. They could even create map packs and sell those for [B]appropriate[/B] prices like in counter strike. I'd be alright with that because it's actual game content which expands the gameplay. And if they have a lot of players, a lot pf players would also buy it. In my opinion, the "quick money strategy" the TF2 team of today chose just is not right one. It feels like they also know that the game really isn't something else than a casual ripoff anymore.
But it's too late now anyways.
[editline]14th March 2015[/editline]
It's sad though because the base concept of the game with the nine classes and the first unlocks were extremely good and had very good competitive potential. The mistake was that they sold it as the "stupid funny comic shooter game" and a lot of players didn't discover the potential which resulted in a small and shrinking competitive scene, in extreme contrast to counter strike.
[QUOTE=Prollgurke;47320734]the first unlocks were extremely good[/QUOTE]
I can't tell if this is sarcastic or not. halp
tf2 not developing an even stronger competitive scene was in fact valve's fault, both for missing the chance to develop it and to rely purely on the comunity's drive to have it.
CS and dota were designed as competitive games with a casual scene, unlike tf2 wich is a casual game with a comunity-driven competitive scene.
to futher ilustrate things, Nintendo's Smash bros did not get official competitive support until the last game on the wiiu, even though the competitive scene had been around for over 10 years since the very first smash bros came out.
[QUOTE=Kapellmeister;47321184]I can't tell if this is sarcastic or not. halp[/QUOTE]
Kritzkrieg, Gunboats... stuff like that? Let's say the "early" ones. No need to make me look like an idiot.
[QUOTE=Prollgurke;47321362]Kritzkrieg, Gunboats... stuff like that? Let's say the "early" ones. No need to make me look like an idiot.[/QUOTE]
Force-a-Nature, early Sandman, early Backburner, Equalizer, Gunslinger, Huntsman...
They did make plenty of great ones but they made plenty of stinkers too.
As fun as latching onto faces and swinging a sword with guaranteed crits that remove buffs is, the Knockout buff needs nerfed. Hard.
I'm honestly amazed they made something with less counterplay than Vampire.
I still have my S. Kritz but only because it's a gift from a friend. I once thought of selling it and just buying loads of Mann Up Tickets, but I just can't sell it. I don't care about it's value anymore on the market, this item was a gift to me and it's one of those weapons I actually love to use.
[QUOTE=Prollgurke;47320734]But taunts do not keep people playing the game. New Maps do. You won't get [B]quick[/B] money, that's true, but the chance is big that people will buy a key or something else from time to time. Of course this does require an in-game shop which is already there or something similar to DLCs. In end, you could make even more money with this.
Of course it takes testing, but let's be honest: There are a ton of great community maps which fit great into the game and are considered as balanced, especially the competitive maps. I think if they would invest more time into testing those instead of creating taunt workshops, cart racing mini games and all that other stuff nobody wants, the game would be a lot better. They could even create map packs and sell those for [B]appropriate[/B] prices like in counter strike. I'd be alright with that because it's actual game content which expands the gameplay. And if they have a lot of players, a lot pf players would also buy it. In my opinion, the "quick money strategy" the TF2 team of today chose just is not right one. It feels like they also know that the game really isn't something else than a casual ripoff anymore.
But it's too late now anyways.
[editline]14th March 2015[/editline]
It's sad though because the base concept of the game with the nine classes and the first unlocks were extremely good and had very good competitive potential. The mistake was that they sold it as the "stupid funny comic shooter game" and a lot of players didn't discover the potential which resulted in a small and shrinking competitive scene, in extreme contrast to counter strike.[/QUOTE]
Yeah it's amazing how stupid Valve is being with community maps, Valve is barely able to product any gameplay content anymore for TF2 and they have this huge amount of community content they could tap into.
I can't even imagine how much more money they would of made with End of the Line if they had shipped Snowplow. More people would of launched TF2 to check out the map, got an EotL crate and bought a key.
Their standards don't make sense. They seem to have incredibly high standards for community maps, yet the recent PVP maps they ship are mediocre and would never be accepted as community maps that go official. Even if they aren't 100% happy with a community map it would be a lot easier to buy one, make a few changes to it (like they did with Snakewater) and ship it then developing a completely new map from scratch.
I don't think that any sort of paid map packs are the answer, Valve only spends about $7,000 to buy a map which is a tiny amount of money compared to how much TF2 brings in daily for them. They really need to step up their game and add a lot more community maps to the game.
[QUOTE=Kapellmeister;47322350]Force-a-Nature, early Sandman, early Backburner, Equalizer, Gunslinger, Huntsman...
They did make plenty of great ones but they made plenty of stinkers too.[/QUOTE]
Don't be that picky now, you know what I mean. Of course not all of them were good. But the ones which were, offered a different playstyle which was fun [B]and[/B] viable. Today, we mostly (if not only) get gimmicky, annoying and useless weapons.
[editline]15th March 2015[/editline]
and reskins
[QUOTE=Prollgurke;47326571]Of course not all of them were good. But the ones which were, offered a different playstyle which was fun [B]and[/B] viable.[/QUOTE]
The only first unlocks that offered actually different playstyles were the Chargin' Targe, the Gunslinger, the Huntsman and the Kritzkrieg and half of those are the fuckiest weapons in the game.
Plus we got the BASE Jumper not that long ago and it's objectively the best unlock in the game so checkmate, athetits.
[QUOTE=Kapellmeister;47327187]The only first unlocks that offered actually different playstyles were the Chargin' Targe, the Gunslinger, the Huntsman and the Kritzkrieg and half of those are the fuckiest weapons in the game.
Plus we got the BASE Jumper not that long ago and it's objectively the best unlock in the game so checkmate, athetits.[/QUOTE]
I don't agree with you that the BASE jumper is a 'perfect' unlock. The situations don't come up all the time, but in ones where the Soldier has a decent height advantage he can just jump up, parachute and be pretty much out of vision. A general rule of designing maps is that you "don't make areas so high they're out of the players in the other teams vision'; because players don't look up as there's generally no reason to look up. Suddenly, there's [i]one[/i] reason to look up; the rare chance that an enemy Soldier might be using this one weapon.
Anyway, the point is, I don't like the BASE jumper because there's often situations where you can jump out of sight of the enemy and still be able to land shots on them.
[QUOTE=LightFlock;47327228]I don't agree with you that the BASE jumper is a 'perfect' unlock. The situations don't come up all the time, but in ones where the Soldier has a decent height advantage he can just jump up, parachute and be pretty much out of vision. A general rule of designing maps is that you "don't make areas so high they're out of the players in the other teams vision'; because players don't look up as there's generally no reason to look up. Suddenly, there's [i]one[/i] reason to look up; the rare chance that an enemy Soldier might be using this one weapon.
Anyway, the point is, I don't like the BASE jumper because there's often situations where you can jump out of sight of the enemy and still be able to land shots on them.[/QUOTE]
i'd love to hear what you think of those super high spots where you can stand on a tiny ledge because of faulty mapping
[QUOTE=Hell-met;47327284]i'd love to hear what you think of those super high spots where you can stand on a tiny ledge because of faulty mapping[/QUOTE]
Those don't bother me [i]as[/i] much, but because they're bugs and will be fixed, rather than it being designed that you can glide out of a player's vision temporarily.
many took a couple years to be fixed and a couple are still unknown to valve
that's hypocrisy
[QUOTE=Hell-met;47327299]many took a couple years to be fixed and a couple are still unknown to valve
that's hypocrisy[/QUOTE]
It depends what spots you're speaking about. Things like that one spot on 2fort centre RED side above the awning (above the battlements) that got fixed weren't as bad. Sure, you're out of the vision of anyone on RED (which is annoying) and was especially abusable as demoman (which definitely was annoying) but the difference between that and the BASE jumper is that you don't have freedom to maneuver.
base jumper isnt what i would call "freedom of maneuver" though. highground wont give you any kind of advantage on anything that doesnt have a decent courtyard, and most maps already give you that advantage without having to discard your secondary (ie: granary, foundry).
[QUOTE=Metaru;47327403]base jumper isnt what i would call "freedom of maneuver" though. highground wont give you any kind of advantage on anything that doesnt have a decent courtyard, and most maps already give you that advantage without having to discard your secondary (ie: granary, foundry).[/QUOTE]
Using the base jumper on junction is my favorite
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
