Anybody notice that the sandman is near worthless now? - Games

I'm indifferent towards the FaN, although i'd rather use the scattergun since it holds more shots. I hate shooting twice then retreating to reload. Bonk! Cola is worthless retarded shit. You don't run any faster when you use it (so you look retarded with these weird banners being drawn on your arms), and people just follow you and wait for the effect to wear off, then blast you when you're tired. It's absolutely useless in 99% of situations, plus the pistol is a powerful weapon when used right. Any competent scout will pick the pistol over the cola. The Sandman started out as an extremely overpowered piece of shit. Stunning ubercharged players is the worst idea ever since ubercharges are the main push/pull factor in the game. Stunting them is a step in the wrong direction. They've taken the nerf too far now and completely ruined it. They could possibly fix it by giving the ball different qualities, like instead of putting the enemy in that gay retreat stance, they could make it so the ball slows you down for a temporary while. That could have uses. for example, if you see an enemy coming at you, hit him with the ball so he's slowed down then dance around him and pepper him with buckshot. Even better, it would have a use against enemy scouts. Slowing down the enemy scout would give you a huge advantage. So yeah, as it stands i don't use any of the scout's unlocks because they're either worthless, over-nerfed or just shit in general. Cheers.

[QUOTE=NotPigeon;19069957]The concept of the Sandman is rubbish.[/QUOTE] So you're telling me that you would rather be DEAD than have a chance (albeit a small one) to recover and get back into the fight quicker? You treat the sandman like an instakill when it really isnt. And its not HALF as easy to use as the sniper rifle, which is a one hit KO. I dont rage when I'm stunned, I just sit there for the couple of seconds it takes to be unstunned and hope my teammates lend a hand. If I die, big deal: either the scout was skillful and hit me despite the sandman's disadvantages, or I was a retard and deserved the hit.

I agree, but I am happy that it is useless.

I can handle being stunned, it happened a lot before. But being stunned as an ubercharged medic was possibly the most frustrating thing in the game. I'm glad valve fixed that.

[QUOTE=Timebomb757;19070077]So you're telling me that you would rather be DEAD than have a chance (albeit a small one) to recover and get back into the fight quicker?[/quote] I'd rather have a chance to fight the Scout fair and square than lose because one single attack connected. [QUOTE=Timebomb757;19070077]You treat the sandman like an instakill when it really isnt. And its not HALF as easy to use as the sniper rifle, which is a one hit KO.[/quote] If it's not practically an instakill, it probably did nothing and was a complete waste of the Scout's time. And for the last time, [i]the Sniper and the Scout are completely different classes so stop comparing them[/i]. [QUOTE=Timebomb757;19070077]I dont rage when I'm stunned, I just sit there for the couple of seconds it takes to be unstunned and hope my teammates lend a hand. If I die, big deal: either the scout was skillful and hit me despite the sandman's disadvantages, or I was a retard and deserved the hit.[/QUOTE] I only get stunned once in a blue moon, but it pisses me off because I usually die due to my teammates abandoning me. [editline]02:23AM[/editline] [QUOTE=CunningHam;19070196]You have no clue of what you're talking about.[/QUOTE] Then enlighten me, o wise Gold Member.

[QUOTE=wuzzimu;19068796]Now, may the same thing happen to the Eyelander.[/QUOTE] :ohdear:

Now that the stun effect has been softened, can we swap out the health loss for a less harsh setback? I used to use it simply because I like dicking around with projectile weapons, but common sense stopped me from equipping it even for giggles after that nerf.

[QUOTE=CunningHam;19070256]I would, but you've already been proven wrong before. You're just so wrapped up in demonizing the sandman that you don't understand.[/QUOTE] I haven't seen any arguments that explain what the stun mechanic actually adds to the game. Being stunned is annoying, but so are a lot of other things. The key difference is that [i]those other things bring something to the game[/i]. Death is the prime example. Dying is an important part of the game's flow and balance. Dynamic respawn times let the attacking team clear off the defending team and have a fairly clear shot at the goal. Killcams tell you about Sniper or Sentry spots you might not have seen before. Spectating your teammates lets you see new strategies being put into play. Even though being killed itself isn't 'fun,' it still serves to make the game as a whole more enjoyable. However, being stunned isn't 'fun,' but it also doesn't add anything to the game; it's a net loss, not a net gain.

[QUOTE=Pennywise;19070301]Now that the stun effect has been softened, can we swap out the health loss for a less harsh setback? I used to use it simply because I like dicking around with projectile weapons, but common sense stopped me from equipping it even for giggles after that nerf.[/QUOTE] Same exact thing for me.

wait, so you can still move while being stunned? what the fuck?

[QUOTE=TheHydra;19071208]wait, so you can still move while being stunned? what the fuck?[/QUOTE] Yeah but you just barely move, like slower than heavy slow

The Sandman is too different to be just a replacement, but that's what Valve made it for.

It's a delicate thing to balance the Sandman based on its original mechanics. Reduce the stun-time and it becomes a novelty at best, lower the Scout's health and it doesn't matter because he'll either get insta-gibbed or shot to pieces once he lets the ball fly in frantic firefights. The whole "sending people into the losing-running stance" is a bit odd, as it doesn't really change anything other than the fact that you can still move. You're STILL unable to fight back as a result, and you move slower than usual (I wouldn't say slower than Heavy slow, it depends on the class). Personally I wish they'd make new animations rather than making the players look like they just got beaned in the head and OMG RUN FOR YOUR LIFE BASEBALLS, like make them just drop their arms to their side and act like they're dazed (like the old Sandman stun animations, but still able to move) if they HAD to do anything about it. Personally I only thought the Sandman was most obnoxious when they used team-work to take me out: One would stun and then odds are another team-mate would stab/bomb/crocket/FaN/saw/etc. me to death (I'm practically a career Heavy so dodging is out of the question more often than not), so stun-time wasn't relevant, neither was the damage reduction with all the firepower they'd unleash upon me. Though personally, I'd much rather them nerf the FaN than the Sandman. I'm tired of being grazed by one pellet and going on a trip, destination 50ft. in THAT direction. And being pretty much insta-killed as certain classes from 25 ft. away wasn't fun, either. (maybe they could increase the spread and make knock-back depend on how many pellets actually strike home?)

I thought it was worthless when they puted -25 health on wearer.

I think the Sandman needs a buff. Every weapon and it's unlockable counterpart have certain advantages and disadvantages. The rocket launcher is strong, yet it's slow. The Direct Hit is stronger and faster but it needs a shitload of accuracy to actually deal good amounts of damage. The Bat and the Sandman is a different story. The Sandman is weak, removes health and has a stun which is near useless. The Bat keeps you at 125 health and is stronger. There's no real incentive to use the Sandman anymore.

I say that to fix the sandman, leave the stunning the way it is, but bring back the ability to stun ubercharged opponents. I don't care how stunning works, I just want to stun ubered opponents again. I don't give a shit about the eight year olds who go bitching to Valve whenever they get stunned.

I think I'm going to turn my sandman into scrap.

God, some updates makes some game(s) worse

this game has become to complicated for me to enjoy anymore. i haven't even tried to play since this new backpack and war and hat thing occured...

They should buff it back up again, but you shouldn't be able to stun ubers, it just doesn't make sense, why should one weapon be able to cause damage on a uber if other classes can't?

[QUOTE=Bravo;19069030]Was so easy to dodge, if you got hit by it you deserved to be stunned. [/QUOTE] Let me ask you something: Have you ever played heavy before? If so, have you played it with more than one half-decent scout using the sandman? It is incredibly hard to dodge projectiles as the slower classes, and the ball goes fast enough to make it undodgable. [editline]08:07AM[/editline] [QUOTE=sphynx;19073238]this game has become to complicated for me to enjoy anymore. i haven't even tried to play since this new backpack and war and hat thing occured...[/QUOTE] If you haven't played, how do you know it's too complicated? *[b]Logic Error[/b]* [editline]08:09AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Zero-Point;19071356]It's a delicate thing to balance the Sandman based on its original mechanics.[/QUOTE] I agree with every word of this post.

I most certainly did notice the change, and it has rendered the sandman utterly useless. If you attended the steam forum yesterday you would know pretty well what I think of this nerf and the whining 12 year olds that made it a reality. The sandman has however served of one great use after the update, it now serves its purpose as scrapmetal of which I am planning to craft a spy hat.

The sandman isn't exactly underpowered. It's just that people don't use it effectively, its absolutely a support weapon rather than an offense or defense weapon. Example: Once I stunned a Engineer fixing his shit. Since he was stunned he couldn't do anything to help his sentry. My Team pushed forward and we won.

It was fine! Who the fuck complains about being stunned for a few seconds because you got hit, across the map, by a projectile, which takes quite a bit of aim.

I smelted by sandmen the day crafting came out. So long as it has a stun I'll not be a douche and use it against others, and I know Valve is too blind to remove it, so bye bye sandman, hello scrap metal.

[QUOTE=Overseer No. 2;19075635] So long as it has a stun I'll not be a douche and use it against others[/QUOTE] I, however, will continue being a douche in order to stop that Medic from Ubering through my entire team's defense. Nothing like a crit Sandman ball to the face to stop an Uber from deploying. Or better yet, lucking out and hitting the Uber target RIGHT before the Uber hits with a full crit stun. Good times.

Hm. I think this was more to make the Direct Hit less effective than the sandman. Think about it. Enemy can't move. Direct hit easily nails them. Easy kill by the soldier.

itt: pissed off scout players rate everyone that hates the sandman dumb.

[QUOTE=Lijitsu;19076587]I, however, will continue being a douche in order to stop that Medic from Ubering through my entire team's defense. Nothing like a crit Sandman ball to the face to stop an Uber from deploying. Or better yet, lucking out and hitting the Uber target RIGHT before the Uber hits with a full crit stun. Good times.[/QUOTE] Dead>Stunned. You'd be better off hitting them in the face with a crit Scattergun blast.

[QUOTE=NotPigeon;19076744]Dead>Stunned. You'd be better off hitting them in the face with a crit Scattergun blast.[/QUOTE] Yes, because I can totally rely on my scattergun giving me a crit and every pellet hitting the Medic that's never 2 feet from me, compared to the ball which I can launch over a greater distance with a fairly high accuracy, and which, for some utterly bizarre reason, crits like a motherfucker.