Anybody notice that the sandman is near worthless now? - Games

I thought that this weapon was ALWAYS useless. Who would want to use something that annoys the hell out of your opponent at the same time as removing your ability to jump, or remove your health, or some other debuff that just isn't worth it. I once had a saying, "only douchebags who can't play scout would use a sandman".

R.I.P. Sandman D:

[QUOTE=Empty_Shadow;19099229]IMO Valve did the scout update perfectly. Scout is an asshole. People who main scout, are assholes. VALVe decided to make Scouts even more assholes, so they gave them a bullshit stun weapon, the pain in the ass Fan, which makes it even harder for pyros to kill fucking scouts, and the bonk, I don't know how it's annoying to other players, but it is.[/QUOTE] The game isn't built around your perfect playing field.

[QUOTE=ComboTroop;19073378]They should buff it back up again, but you shouldn't be able to stun ubers, it just doesn't make sense, why should one weapon be able to cause damage on a uber if other classes can't?[/QUOTE] The reason why it fit is because of the low chances of happening. The scout is the antithesis of an Uber-pair, hence forth why it made sense to add that feature into the game. It was a little unbalanced, but there should still be a way to at least slow down ubers. There was NO NEED to balance the sandman more, its now worse than the bat.. I mean, first off, whenever I got stunned, half the time I don't die, and the ball is easy to dodge, so all the people bitching are either blind, or they just suck. Second off, as a scout, the Fan, Bonk, and sandman make a great combo for a run and cap sub-class to the normal scout. With the Fan I can get to new places, much much easier, and dodge enemy fire more effectively, and with the bonk I can slip past pesky sentries, and before, with the sandman, I could stun enemies so I could slip past them. That's not fucking unbalanced. The way it is now is.

Getting kills as a Scout seems to be the most engaging of the classes. -Demos and Soldiers can get 'accidental' kills simply from firing in areas enemies MIGHT be. -Snipers can sit back in the relative safety of friendly territory and get kills. -Engineers have something that kills for them. -Spys work best when enemies have no means to counter. (See: Backstab.) -Pyros can deal damage (and kill) even after they're dead from their main attack. -Medics, for the most part, has someone else do their killing for them. -Admittedly, Heavies aren't very guilty of non-engaging battles due to their kill-zone being a relatively short range coupled with slow movement. There are no easy kills as a Scout. Even if you sneak up on a Soldier and get two point-blank FaN shots into his back, he can EASILY just whip around and kill you with one rocket. This goes for most non-125 HP classes. ---Disclaimer, all of the above is an opinion and in no way is stated to be a fact, you are free to formulate your own opinion regarding scouts or other classes. I'll give you the right to yours, if you'll give me the right to mine. For crimneys sake don't start a shitstorm. =\ --- But I digress, this be about the Sandman. Honestly, the Sandman is a VERY hard pill to swallow now. As if us scouts didn't have a hard enough time surviving a lot of encounters, having 95 makes it that much harder. Coupled with the fact that the Stun isn't all that great, doesn't last long enough to do much, and you've got a recipe for another 'Bonesaw' if you catch my drift. As for the rest of the Unlocks, BONK is fine and VERY underrated. FaN vs. Scattergun I'm really on the fence about... But I can't deny how incredibly useful having a triple-jump is.

[QUOTE=eyesnteeth;19100574]The thing I hate most about Sandman, is that if I get "stunned," any teammates around me won't care so long as the scout doesn't attack them. [/QUOTE] This. Yesterday I was leading a charge round that first corner into Dustbowl stage 3's Hall of Death as a Soldier. I rounded the corner and got stunned, so I immediately ran away. I managed to get back to my teammates, who were standing right around the corner all of five feet away, but the bastards just let me die.

Valve nerfed the only good weapon from the scout update, so they could buff the Force-a-Nature even more.

The health decrease makes you a one shot kill from direct rockets and grenades. :frown:

By my own experience with sandman is pretty good so far. My fellow random community team friends are almost always defended the one who got stunned, unless he was alone. I still use Sandman. Why? 1. I hardly ever play as a scout. 2. Its good way to make a difference in situations by knocking out enemy star player for a moment. 3. Its just fun to use, this is IMO game that is desinged to be fun to play. Thank you for reading :buddy:

[QUOTE=4RT1LL3RY;19069231]I wish scout had gotten some love with his unlocks. Now that sandman is worthless can we get a bat that when it hits an airborne enemy spikes them into the ground causing them to take fall damage. regardless of height, making someone crater from a jump would be awesome. Think gravelpit C point, rocket jumping soldier, denied, now has too low of health to rocket jump again. Or instead of the sandman give him, *gasp* a concussion grenade that [b]does 0 dmg but throws off the aim of the user and enemies hit by it.[/b] It can also be used to jump great distances. I miss concs.[/QUOTE] I think the ball should do this (the bolded part) as well as mess up the movement of the stunned player for a few seconds. (Think L4D2 Jockey) Edit: But I thought it was fine before the latest nerf though, too.

Notpigeon, your biased idiocy makes my head hurt a bit. I just have to say. Good day gentlemen.

[QUOTE=V3nom;19099674]I fucking hated the Sandman nerfs. I was a Scout player since Day 1, I loved the bat, and just generally loved playing the class, and when I saw the Sandman, I nearly shit myself, because I thought it would be a great unlock. When I got it, I fucking loved it. Then it got nerfed the first time, doing less damage. "Okay" I thought, "I can still work with this, I just have to stun them for long enough, get some good hits in, then run away. No big deal." That worked for a while, until the next nerf came. No more stunning ubercharges. "Uh... what?" Was the first thought that came to mind. I still used it, but noticed after a while, it was nearly worthless. Now, today, you have to get maximum range in order to stun someone. Needless to say, I don't use the sandman anymore. :smith:[/QUOTE] Your avatar makes me think of you as a mentally retarded child who's toy was just broken. And it is adorable.

[QUOTE=NotPigeon;19068810]Good. Being stunned is an entirely unfun mechanic. It's annoying, it's jarring, and it's all-around shitty. There is literally no reason for stunning someone other than being a dick. And before you get into "HURF DURF TEAM ASSISTANCE ARGLEBARGLE," let me just say this: stunning someone is harder and less effective than just rolling Sniper and headshotting them, and in most situations you could have just as easily killed them with your Scattergun or FaN. There are some situations where stunning is useful, particularly for targeting players in the middle of a crowd or covered by a Sentry, but in those situations it's usually ultimately useless because they're surrounded by teammates. Sometimes their team will abandon them, but that's just frustrating for the other guy rather than actually useful.[/QUOTE] Obviously you've never used it on the 10 kills per minute soldier to get him shot in the face. I smelted all my sandmen down after the raft server was back up. [editline]04:48PM[/editline] [QUOTE=V3nom;19099674]I fucking hated the Sandman nerfs.[/QUOTE] Get out of my fookin braaaaaiiin.

I deleted my main sandman. It used to be my favorite scout weapon. Its just not as annoying anymore.

[QUOTE=Street_Wolf;19107470]I think the ball should do this (the bolded part) as well as mess up the movement of the stunned player for a few seconds. (Think L4D2 Jockey) Edit: But I thought it was fine before the latest nerf though, too.[/QUOTE] I think that if they added jockey like movements to the current sandman stun, I'd be somewhat more okay with it. At least then running away wouldn't be as easy as it is now.

[QUOTE=Rambo_9;19070139]I can handle being stunned, it happened a lot before. But being stunned as an ubercharged medic was possibly the most frustrating thing in the game. I'm glad valve fixed that.[/QUOTE] fixed? it wasn't a bug you idiot read the description on the scout update page. it was only nerfed because all the 12 year old couldn't handle there being an EFFECTIVE way to stop and uber, besides the airblast.

Guys, not to be rude or anything but... Could you in express your dislike towards the new sandman nerf in the steam forums? Considering how I don't think valve reads much of the discussions of facepunch, and because it's recieving mostly just positive feedback on the steam forums where everyone is happy that they no longer have to see sandman as a threat.

[QUOTE=Simski;19108426]Guys, not to be rude or anything but... Could you in express your dislike towards the new sandman nerf in the steam forums? Considering how I don't think valve reads much of the discussions of facepunch, and because it's recieving mostly just positive feedback on the steam forums where everyone is happy that they no longer have to see sandman as a threat.[/QUOTE] What, so we can't have a discussion about a change in a weapon and gameplay because Valve won't consider it?

The nerfed stun wouldn't be that useless if it lasted longer. If the scout is not alone you are quite defenseless while half-stunned, but it'll last only like a few seconds.

[QUOTE=Leo Leonardo;19108699]What, so we can't have a discussion about a change in a weapon and gameplay because Valve won't consider it?[/QUOTE] That's not at all what I meant, you can discuss it all you want. I'm just saying that discussing it in the steam forum as well is a good idea if you actually want valve to consider your opinion, and so that the ones there that like the nerf won't outnumber the ones who don't.

[QUOTE=spartan-9081;19107690]Notpigeon, your biased idiocy makes my head hurt a bit. I just have to say. Good day gentlemen.[/QUOTE] If I'm so wrong, it should be easy to actually refute my arguments. Either way it doesn't matter since it's become clear that you won't change your minds and I probably won't change mine, so there's really no point in running around going through the same arguments and the same rebuttals and the same you calling me names so you know you're right over and over. And, hey, it's cool. This is the internet. Ad hominem attacks and boxes are just how it goes. You guys get to feel like you've told me what's what, I get to act smug. Everybody wins and we're all retards. Good day sir.

Pyro here. Shut up you stupid scouts, we got the shit kicked out of backburner, the flare gun has required skill to use effectively since day one, and the axtinguisher needs split second timing to be effective unless you're roasting a heavy or soldier.

Things I don't care about - Negative 30 HP - Unable to stun ubers - Dealing extra damage towards stunned player (rubbish idea) Things I care about - Actually stopping people with a stun (for fucks sake, that's the whole point of it)

I think we should just do a redo on the scout update. FaN is OP, Sandman is UP, and bonk is just meh. There's no win. Besides, valve has done better with each update since then. I think they would be smart enough to get it right this time. What valve is doing now is changing the play style of the classes. What they did with scout was tweek the one the scout used. That was hit and run. I think they should do something else besides make him a hit and run class.

[QUOTE=yellowoboe;19068909]I did that short range stun and a heavy ran into a train.[/QUOTE] I got stunned today and ran into a saw [QUOTE=General Omega;19110526]What valve is doing now is changing the play style of the classes. What they did with scout was tweek the one the scout used. That was hit and run. I think they should do something else besides make him a hit and run class.[/QUOTE] Yeah; they allow you to go more towards either Attack, Defense, or Support. E.G., for the Heavy, the Sandvich gives you Defensive abilities, as well as some Support ones. However, Natascha is clearly designed towards defense. For the Demoman, the Shield/Sword combo makes you more of an offensive class, as it removes your Defensive ability (area of denial). However, the Scout's unlocks... FaN: merely a shotgun more appopriate for Hit 'n' Run, a tactic absolutely possible with the Scattergun Bonk: selfish and useless, maybe a bit of Support for distracting the sentries Sandman: defensive (well not anymore)

Only the shittiest scouts ever would sacrifice 30 HP for a weapon that's hard to use in the first place.

Next thing you know, we'll complain to valve to nerf teamwork as well :O

[QUOTE=Danny Lol;19110897]Only the shittiest scouts ever would sacrifice 30 HP for a weapon that's hard to use in the first place.[/QUOTE] It was hard to use and the health decrease war a major sacrifice, but it USED to be worth it if you could get a good hit.

[QUOTE=Simski;19111622]It was hard to use and the health decrease war a major sacrifice, but it USED to be worth it if you could get a good hit.[/QUOTE] It was hardly worth it when you only lost the double jump with it for the fact of matter that the double jump is essential for countering soldiers and countering heavies with slower sensitivity. Any scout that know's how to play would have chosen the default bat from the beginning. [editline]12:23AM[/editline] Oh, and the ability to stun an ubered player was incredibly retarded for the fact of matter that no medics would EVER uber a heavy anymore.

The health loss was a better nerf since it could be countered by being good at dodging, the rest of what you said has very little to do with the subject considering how we are not discussing that sandman.