Anybody notice that the sandman is near worthless now? - Games

Something I've seen people suggesting since TF2 came out was the feature the Tranq had in TFC, of slowing enemies down. Seriously, it's an obvious improvement and useful as hell.

[media]http://screenshot.xfire.com/screenshot/natural/d7e507e97acd8248d7aa27fc118deecbd1dd759a.png[/media] what

I'll just say this: A stunning mechanic has no place in Team Fortress 2. [i]Valve themselves have stated that one of their highest priorities in designing the game is to avoid creating instances where player feels futile or cheated.[/i] For example, what can you do to prevent yourself from being sniped? As you drop down from the battlements or stride out of the spawn, do you feel the laser sights sweeping over your character? As the killcam rushes towards your killer, do you curse him? Do you open the class menu and let the mouse cursor hover over the Spy before you close it and mutter to yourself? Strafe, strafe, strafe, and pray. As you land, you see something hurtling towards you. The white spheroid reaches your cranium before you reach the conclusion that it's a baseball and that you should move the fuck out of the way. You stand there, each second an eternity, and through the campy graphic displayed over your head you spy a [blue/red] blur hurtling towards you with bat in hand. As your corpse [crumples/collapses/catapults], you curse that damn Scout. You wish a plague upon him and his brothers and genital warts upon his mother. Fun, right? I'm happy that the Sandman is now invalid; it never had a place in Team Fortress 2 to begin with. (In the same way that these fucking moronic, "well how about you don't get killed by it, bub," arguments don't have a place in a logical [ha] discussion. If there's anything you people should have learned from actually playing the game, it's that not every encounter is some sterile 1 v. 1 standoff between two perfectly matched opponents on an equally level battlefield. We're not playing rock, paper, scissors.)

[QUOTE=NiGHTS88;19190866]:bravo2:[/QUOTE] If you believe this then the Huntsman and any other fast, projectile weapon should be removed immediately.

[QUOTE=Hesychasmos;19190901]If you believe this then the Huntsman and any other fast, projectile weapon should be removed immediately.[/QUOTE] Of course, rockets should be removed entirely, it's not like they kill you after rendering you immobile or anything. The Huntsman can be dodged fairly well, and the Sniper is more dependent on it than the Scout is on his [i]melee weapon[/i]. To kill a player while using the Huntsman, your options are: 1.) Charge a full shot, release it, and kill him. Good job! 2.) Release an arrow without charging it and hit the target. Release one, two, or three more arrows after alerting your target and have them all hit. What luck! 3.) Release arrow, receive kill. :iiam: 4.) If all else fails, use your kukri or your SMG to kill the player. 5.) Miss, miss, miss, then die a painful death. Unfortunately, the last outcome is generally the most frequent. Why? The Sniper's bow requires as much precision (or sheer luck) as the Sandman does to hit, but that hit does not always kill. The Sniper is much more likely to die while using the Huntsman than a Scout is while using the Sandman. The bow is not only the Sniper's main weapon, it is unreliable and does not guarantee a kill on the initial hit, like the Sandman often does. Do you get hit with an arrow once and then say, "Well fuck me, I'm dead," and stand still. No, you don't. You stand still and die when that baseball collides with your noggin and that Scout runs up to you and blasts both barrels of his scattergun in your gut. The point is that you're doomed if that ball hits you and that Scout, or any of his teammates, get near you; and that sucks. asdfghjkl Edit: I feel like a 'Nam vet when I'm recalling the Sandman fiasco.

Sandman + Teamwork = Useful Sandman + Teamwork + Nerf = Still Useful Seriously, stun an engineer in his nest, he can't work on his sentry or fight back which equals an easy kill. The few people who stress this cannot stress this enough, TEAM FORTRESS = USE MOTHERFUCKING TEAMWORK

Regardless of anything they do to further nerf/buff the Sandman, [i]they need to fix the fucking firing while stunned glitch[/i]. I'm so fucking sick of 'stunning' somebody and them then shooting me with a rocket/grenade/whatever and killing me.

[QUOTE=Empty_Shadow;19125246]It's made me ragequit as a pyro many times.[/QUOTE] How the fuck do you ragequit the easiest class in the game?

It's because by now most people know how to do with sandman users, Soon people will learn to Run away from the Eyelander

Have a 156th tick.

How about making crit balls stun "for real" while normal balls give you the "fail run" thing?

[QUOTE=Kumagoro;19195177]How about making crit balls stun "for real" while normal balls give you the "fail run" thing?[/QUOTE] Hey guys, lets let them only stun [i]3% of the time![/i] provided you dont [i]Miss![/i]

I think the uber-ineffective nerf was stupid. Ubers should be balanced somehow.

They could still make it stun ubercharged players at any distance and give back the health and I'll use it again.

AT LEAST let me be able to stun ubercharges again.

[QUOTE=NiGHTS88;19191080]stuff[/QUOTE] 1. I'd rather be stuck in one place or running around in the humiliation animation than be killed by a lucksman sniper or a random crocket that hits my foot. 2. In the case of a full stun: If the scout was close when they stunned you, it's your own damn fault because you [i]let[/i] them get close. If they were far away, you either didn't dodge it or you weren't paying attention and deserved to die. 3. In the case of the nerfed stun: if you really just give up every time you get the humiliation stun then you should stop playing this game and go play No-Tactics Fortress 2.

[QUOTE=xpod1;19202704]AT LEAST let me be able to stun ubercharges again.[/QUOTE] Please no. Not again.

[QUOTE=snuwoods;19202444]I think the uber-ineffective nerf was stupid. Ubers should be balanced somehow.[/QUOTE] They're balanced by the time they take to charge. They're balanced by sneaky Scouts and Spies taking out the Medic. They're balanced by the airblast and explosive knockback. The uber is supposed to be an 'oh fuck run away' sort of ability. It forces you to retreat or die- killing isn't an option. That's why it's good at taking down strong defenses, like it was always meant to. The Sandman ruined that; instead of trying to knock them away at great personal risk, you could effectively 'kill' the uber and it lost almost all value.

I agree that the Sandman stunning Ubers wasn't such a grand idea. This coming from a career Scout. =\ Ubers are meant to break through heavy defenses... Okay, Ubers are meant to break through sentries. =P It was FAR too easy to have an uber wasted due to a single scout with a baseball. That being said, I can imagine it's a nightmare to balance something like the Sandman. It needs to be effective without being so good there's no reason to take the original. (Though, it's current incarnation, there is little reason to take the unlock!) Now, they can't get rid of the baseball aspect of it, that's here to stay, I'm also pretty sure they're not too keen on getting rid of stunning. (I mean, they made the animation and effects for it, they NEED to use it... I think.) Well, whatever Valve comes up with, I'm sure it'll be better than what's currently there... I jus' can't fathom an effective way to balance things out so everyone is happy. On a fun note, and I might get clocks for this, but a fun side-effect of the 'Humiliation retreat' stun, Heavies who are spun up can still fire whilst 'Stunned'. =( I'm sure a Max distance stun doesn't do this, but the humiliation retreat does.

Does anyone here thinks they are actually going to change anything on the Sandman after the last nerf?

Sandman at its initial form was the best. I still remember how fun it was to stun ubers. And I never completed the achievment related to this :(

[QUOTE=ZCaliber;19207372]On a fun note, and I might get clocks for this, but a fun side-effect of the 'Humiliation retreat' stun, Heavies who are spun up can still fire whilst 'Stunned'. =( I'm sure a Max distance stun doesn't do this, but the humiliation retreat does.[/QUOTE] It's not just a Heavy, I killed somebody with rockets while 'stunned' a few days ago.