You are all still missing the point, no weapon is even considered to be allowed unless EVERYBODY has the chance of getting it through achievements, crafting is not an acceptable way of obtaining an item since it is also random as to whether you will get the dupes to craft it
[QUOTE=Zero-Point;23336291][/LIST]
That's like saying Natascha is unbalanced because it prevents Scouts from flanking as effectively.
[/quote]
It doesn't unbalance the game though. Also, heavies are rarely used.
[quote]
I've seen many a Scout killed in one hit without any crits/minicrits with the standard rocket launcher, so I fail to see the argument here. [/quote]
You're imagining it. There's no way for a soldier's rocket to instantly kill a full-health scout.
[quote]
If the Soldier sticks to his standard anti-Scout routine, then yes. But, as said, when they know a Crit-a-Cola user is about, they need to change the way they approach and be more vigilant in terms of watching our for ambushes.[/quote]
There's no way of knowing when one is about
[quote]
I've still yet to see a convincing argument on how it's unbalanced considering that if someone were TRULY competitive, they'd be prepared for anything.
[/quote]
I think you're overestimating comp players. They have no psychic powers.
[quote]
And going by your logic I assume the Kritzkrieg is banned as well because it not only charges faster than the regular Uber-Charge, but with it one can easily take out the other team's Medic and a good number of their supporting members as well with a few well-placed crit-rockets, especially since it doesn't penalize the Medic in any way from using it other than being vulnerable when he deploys it.
[/quote]
No, kritzkrieg is if anything underpowered because it leaves the medic vulnerable during the charge and if the enemy medic pops uber you're fucked.
[quote]
If being forced to change your plan of attack disrupts the game that much, then I wonder how truly competitive these players are.
[/quote]
The best on earth, no less. If they can't deal with it, it's OP. Guess what? They can't deal with it.
[QUOTE=Sirdangolot5;23337073]
You're imagining it. There's no way for a soldier's rocket to instantly kill a full-health scout.
[/QUOTE]
Actually when using crit-a-cola when under the affect the scout also takes mini crits
[QUOTE=Sirdangolot5;23337073]The best on earth, no less. If they can't deal with it, it's OP. Guess what? They can't deal with it.[/QUOTE]
If they can't deal with it, then they suck ass. Adapting to changes in your strategies because someone is doing something different for once (not like this happens in competitive gaming anyway, different is bad you see) is a vital part of playing a online game. If they cannot handle a simple weapon being used, or someone coming from a strange angle, then they aren't that good. Combating every unlock is possible, it doesn't take a god damn rocket scientist to fight back.
It boggles my mind sometimes at the amount of competetive people there are.
I honestly think so many of your opinions would change if you played a couple of competitive games and no tf2lobby is not competitive
While I respect comp players as being much MUCH better players then I am, I'm not a big fan of how comp play works.
It solely revolves around one player on each team, The medic. Half of a comp game is just people standing around waiting for the uber to finish charging and every unlock released has to be 'tested' to make sure it doesn't make it too easy to kill the other team's medic.
Here is what I don't get: If an item makes your medic die too fast, can't you just use it yourself to kill their medic? Why is there this big deal about how the medic has to live? It's not like comp players have to deal with a multiple sentry nest.
I will probably never play comp but I like to be good at the games I play.
I've been trying out TF2 Lobby for the past couple of days.
I am fucking [B][I][U]TIRED[/U][/I][/B] of Granary.
Is there a command to force players to equip vanilla weapons?.
Never ever play on the FuG servers if you hate competitive players, its just competition galore there.
[QUOTE=xxncxx;23343372]Never ever play on the FuG servers if you hate competitive players, its just competition galore there.[/QUOTE]
whats the IP?
[QUOTE=Sirdangolot5;23337073]It doesn't unbalance the game though. Also, heavies are rarely used.[/quote]
Uh, okay. Sure, whatever you say. They don't use Heavy alot because they think that in order to be competitive you have to be highly mobile, god forbid someone use a weapon that negates that while using a class that isn't all that mobile.
[quote]You're imagining it. There's no way for a soldier's rocket to instantly kill a full-health scout.[/quote]
I've seen it, believe me. Generally it involves the Scout trying to surprise the Soldier with a scattergun to the face but it rarely works out well for the Scout.
[quote]There's no way of knowing when one is about[/quote]
Surely whilst using Ventrillo or Mumble and having a keen eye they'd know something was amiss.
[quote]I think you're overestimating comp players. They have no psychic powers.[/quote]
True, but they do have insane prediction skills in terms of aiming pipebombs and rockets.
[quote]No, kritzkrieg is if anything underpowered because it leaves the medic vulnerable during the charge and if the enemy medic pops uber you're fucked.[/quote]
My favorite strategy with the Kritzkrieg is to use it on someone who'll take out the other Medic first. They can't pop uber if you beat them to it.
[quote]The best on earth, no less. If they can't deal with it, it's OP. Guess what? They can't deal with it.[/QUOTE]
But you said yourself that they can deal with it, it just makes it harder for their Medic to survive. I didn't know they brought back The Hunted.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;23336427]That is the fucking point, Jesus, if it allows you to take out the medic faster, while still being balanced in almost every other situation, what is the point in removing it? This is one of the many reasons I fucking despise the cancer you call "professional" gaming. It gives someone a boost in power, yes, but it is only temporary, and someone who should know what they are doing would have a plan to counter it, much like every other weapon in the damn game.
Fuck, competitive gaming is killing the industry, the community and the enjoyment I get from games, instead of playing a game for fun, you are now playing a game to win, and to win only, fuck having the cool shit that made the game unique WE NEED A STERILE ENVIRONMENT AS THAT IS THE ONLY WAY IT WILL BE FAIR! When you reach the point where you are actually paying stupid amounts of money to go somewhere to [B]play a game[/B], you know you've basically hit rock bottom in life. Hell, I don't do much with my spare time, but I bet I still haven't hit as low as most competitive gamers.
Almost every one I have met has been a asshole, exclaiming how they are good and we suck just because we actually stop playing the game and go outside/ do something constructive or useful to society. The entire competitive industry is slowly starting to make games less fun, developers focus on making a game that can be used in tournaments, and neglecting the public enjoyment, hence why multi player has become such a big thing to have. Competitive gaming also introduced the really shitty genre of frag movies, who the fuck watches these and can genuinely tell me it was a entertaining experience? It's just some guy stroking their own dick over how they spend all day playing a fucking game, then raping the thing to death with shit songs or effects.
So far competitive gaming has killed so many games to me, over almost every platform, it is beyond a joke;
TF2 - PC, as unserious game that now has to be supahsrs in the face of "pros" because they can't have fun otherwise
CoD4 - PC, PS3, XBox, people seem to think that removing half the guns and perks makes the game more "pro", then refuse to play any map that is crash or crossfire, real fun there guys, good fucking job!
RF: G - PS3, okay, nobody took this seriously, but the MLG playlists removed half the fun shit, luckily they were optional, unluckily, every idiot who played only played them.
CS: S - PC, you cannot look at the server browser without someone claiming how their server is "pro" or "noob" friendly and uses stupid placebos like "OMG 1k tick XDXDXD". The community also became a utter shit-fest.
Like I said, it isn't just in game that kills it, it's the fact people think that watching someone show off how "1337" they are is apparently a fun thing. How the "leagues" are organized and how much money is fed into them every year, seriously, the money could have probably gone into something more useful than that.
Incoming competitive sympathizer reply.[/QUOTE]
My god you are the single most correct person I have ever seen.
[QUOTE=Zero-Point;23343647]I've seen it, believe me. Generally it involves the Scout trying to surprise the Soldier with a scattergun to the face but it rarely works out well for the Scout.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://tf2wiki.net/wiki/Rocket_launcher[/url]
Anyone who plays a game other than to have fun is a prick. I love when a bunch of supah-leet people join a pub I'm on and go Soldier or Demo and rape the fuck out of my team. Ends with us in overtime stuck in the spawn on Orange-X with max score of 23 while they have a score of 356 and a K/D of 34:1.
Everyone on my team goes sniper, that ends well. Last thing I know I'm the lone pyro on a team of 25 in a sea of dead snipers and dispensers.
[QUOTE=DanRatherman;23344049]Anyone who plays a game other than to have fun is a prick. I love when a bunch of supah-leet people join a pub I'm on and go Soldier or Demo and rape the fuck out of my team. Ends with us in overtime stuck in the spawn on Orange-X with max score of 23 while they have a score of 356 and a K/D of 34:1.
Everyone on my team goes sniper, that ends well. Last thing I know I'm the lone pyro on a team of 25 in a sea of dead snipers and dispensers.[/QUOTE]
Comp players aren't dicks, they'd be dicks if they spent all their time pubstomping instead of actually playing other teams.
Also, at zero-point:
The scout's crit-a-cola is unbalanced.
Carnage said that. And I think he knows a [i]little[/i] more about competitive scout than [b]you[/b] do pal because he invented it. And then he perfected it until no man could best him in the ring of honor!
(seriously, CoL carnage is probably the best scout on earth.)
[editline]10:14PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Onirik;23343993][url]http://tf2wiki.net/wiki/Rocket_launcher[/url][/QUOTE]
thank you so much
[editline]10:14PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Nibwoddle;23343848]My god you are the single most correct person I have ever seen.[/QUOTE]
actually he's mostly wrong
[QUOTE=Sirdangolot5;23344329]
Also, at zero-point:
The scout's crit-a-cola is unbalanced.[/QUOTE]
If you say so.
[quote]Carnage said that. And I think he knows a [I]little[/I] more about competitive scout than [B]you[/B] do pal because he invented it. And then he perfected it [B]so that[/B] no [B]living[/B] man could best him in the ring of honor![/quote]
Fixed that for ya.
[quote](seriously, CoL carnage is probably the best scout on earth.)
[/quote] Never seen him in action. If you would like to prove a point on this, please have some of these comp buddies of yours play a little "for-fun" competitive match, but with one Scout using the Crit-A-Cola. A video of this match would be appreciated, because so far much of what you've mentioned seems to be the result of presumption and paranoia.
[quote]thank you so much[/quote]Yeah, thanks for posting the link that proves that the Crit-A-Cola is not unbalanced.
90*1.35=121.5 for the rocket.
85-105 point-blank for the Scout, which you're arguing they're [B]going[/B] to get within range to do, so Crit-A-Cola doesn't matter as a Scout can kill a Medic in 1-2 shots anyway (mini-crit Scattergun =105 max * 1.35 = 141.75 . If you don't have the reaction time to kill a Scout before he gets a second shot off (which according to you takes 2 rockets), then the Medic is doomed from the start, Cola or no Cola.
Now let's do the math on the FaN, according to this little condemning link.
Point-blank damage per-shot is 92-113. (assuming all pellets hit their target)
113 max * 1.35 = 152.55
In THIS case it's a one-hit kill on a Medic IF he can get close enough, which you argue they will. But even without the Crit-a-Cola, you lost the Medic because of the FaN's rate of fire, so a Medic that dies in this scenario is at fault for not watching out for himself. Plus if even ONE pellet misses its mark, then it still requires two shots which a normal FaN could've done without it.
[QUOTE=Zero-Point;23345012]If you say so.
Carnage said that. And I think he knows a [I]little[/I] more about competitive scout than [B]you[/B] do pal because he invented it. And then he perfected it [B]so that[/B] no [B]living[/B] man could best him in the ring of honor![/quote]
Fixed that for ya.
Never seen him in action. If you would like to prove a point on this, please have some of these comp buddies of yours play a little "for-fun" competitive match, but with one Scout using the Crit-A-Cola. A video of this match would be appreciated, because so far much of what you've mentioned seems to be the result of presumption and paranoia.
Yeah, thanks for posting the link that proves that the Crit-A-Cola is not unbalanced.
90*1.35=121.5 for the rocket.
85-105 point-blank for the Scout, which you're arguing they're [B]going[/B] to get within range to do, so Crit-A-Cola doesn't matter as a Scout can kill a Medic in 1-2 shots anyway (mini-crit Scattergun =105 max * 1.35 = 141.75 . If you don't have the reaction time to kill a Scout before he gets a second shot off (which according to you takes 2 rockets), then the Medic is doomed from the start, Cola or no Cola.
Now let's do the math on the FaN, according to this little condemning link.
Point-blank damage per-shot is 92-113. (assuming all pellets hit their target)
113 max * 1.35 = 152.55
In THIS case it's a one-hit kill on a Medic IF he can get close enough, which you argue they will. But even without the Crit-a-Cola, you lost the Medic because of the FaN's rate of fire, so a Medic that dies in this scenario is at fault for not watching out for himself. Plus if even ONE pellet misses its mark, then it still requires two shots which a normal FaN could've done without it.[/QUOTE]
Fine, talk to carnage yourself. You can do it here, at CompLexity's forum:
[url]http://www.complexitygaming.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=14[/url]
[QUOTE=Sirdangolot5;23345191]
Fine, talk to carnage yourself. You can do it here, at CompLexity's forum:
[URL]http://www.complexitygaming.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=14[/URL][/QUOTE]
Still theory and speculation if I talk to the guy. I want to SEE it in action in the hands of these so-called comp players before I'll even start to see how it could be unbalanced.
Look, it's obvious from your posts that you and hexpunK both have a strong bias against competitive TF2 players, and my posts here aren't about to change that. I'll end by saying that there's a lot more to competitive TF2 than you seem to think.
EDIT: Also, you can actually straight-up use the forums to request Carnage to make a demo using C-a-C for you. They've done request vids before
[QUOTE=Sirdangolot5;23346202]Look, it's obvious from your posts that you and hexpunK both have a strong bias against competitive TF2 players, and my posts here aren't about to change that. I'll end by saying that there's a lot more to competitive TF2 than you seem to think.
[/QUOTE]
Look, it's obvious from your posts that you are strongly biased against pub players, and zero's posts aren't going to change that. I'll end by saying that half the weapons competitive players say are "overpowered" and "unfair" aren't.
[QUOTE=HAKKAR!!!;23346582]Look, it's obvious from your posts that you are strongly biased against pub players, and zero's posts aren't going to change that. I'll end by saying that half the weapons competitive players say are "overpowered" and "unfair" aren't.[/QUOTE]
I haven't seen anything even relating to pubs in most of his posts, hes just trying to defend competitive gaming.
I dont know why you guys are so uptight about it. I dislike most competitive gaming but its quite interesting in TF2.
chill
[QUOTE=Sirdangolot5;23346202]Look, it's obvious from your posts that you and hexpunK both have a strong bias against competitive TF2 players, and my posts here aren't about to change that. I'll end by saying that there's a lot more to competitive TF2 than you seem to think.
EDIT: Also, you can actually straight-up use the forums to request Carnage to make a demo using C-a-C for you. They've done request vids before[/QUOTE]
I never said I had anything against competitive players (hell,that they allegedly don't bitch about Natascha makes them A-OK in my book, everyone else claims it "nails them to the floor"), I just cannot for the life of me understand how they think Crit-A-Cola is unbalanced purely through the strategies it opens up. If you had just left it at "because odds are not every Scout will have it", then I would simply ask why they can't have a game where BOTH Scouts on BOTH teams can use it. Banning the use of certain weapons out-right just because not everyone has them is just downright strange.
Also, quick question: Is the Scotsman's Skullcutter banned, too? If not, then why not? It's a random drop, it does more damage, and combined with the Targe it makes a Demoman an ambushing Medic-slaying monstrosity. If it is, then why? It slows him down a butt-ton and requires him to give up his sticky-launcher in order to get the most use out of it.
The way I see it, normal TF2 and Comp TF2 are pretty much completely different games and should not be judged by the same category.
This is because of comp's pacing.
Only 6 players to a team means team work is mandatory, everyone has to stick together and mantain a very fast pace to keep up with the enemy, which alienates the slower, more methodical play styles of some classes like the Heavy and Engineer almost always.
Only 6 players means that unlocks that would be balanced normally in the 12 vs. 12 environments of pub play are turned rather OP in the small, tight knit environment where just a single casualty can spell defeat for a team.
[QUOTE=xxncxx;23343372]Never ever play on the FuG servers if you hate competitive players, its just competition galore there.[/QUOTE]
FuG is full of the worst people I've ever met. I've yet to meet one person on a FuG server that could make it in comp. Although the egos are the biggest I've ever seen.
the crit-a-cola is banned just because not everyone has it so they won't have the same opportunity as someone else and it can be considered op in comp play. as-is, you can basically just get a free kill off on the medic. Sure, you'll die too, but the medic dieing is way more important than a scout dieing. Maybe the item will be allowed at some point, kind of like how the equalizer started off banned but was later allowed after it was out for long enough.
skullcutter isn't banned iirc, it's pretty bad tbh so nobody uses it anyways
[QUOTE=Conductor;23347691]the crit-a-cola is banned just because not everyone has it so they won't have the same opportunity as someone else and it can be considered op in comp play. as-is, you can basically just get a free kill off on the medic.[/QUOTE]
I already did the math for you on why that's a bogus excuse.
[quote]skullcutter isn't banned iirc, it's pretty bad tbh so nobody uses it anyways[/QUOTE]
It's not too bad, better than the Eyelander in many cases.
the crits makes it so they don't have to have spot on aim to 2-shot a medic like they would otherwise which makes it a lot easier, and using the fan makes 1shotting possible.
the skullcutter's movement slowdown is just too much for most people. most just run bottle
[QUOTE=Conductor;23347794]the crits makes it so they don't have to have spot on aim to 2-shot a medic like they would otherwise which makes it a lot easier, and using the fan makes 1shotting possible.
the skullcutter's movement slowdown is just too much for most people. most just run bottle[/QUOTE]
The Skullcutter isn't worth it for compfags and pubholes, but its nightmarish for Funbags. Any Demo with a Skullcutter will decimate the server in a melee-fight, being an Eyelander with most of the benefits, and some others (Range, crit ability, attack speed) while removing the good disadvantages (no health penalty). The only thing that's bad with the Skullcutter in melee fights is that you can't buff yourself by getting kills, and the speed lower (which isn't all that important, as your power is strong enough to finish fights quickly.) In melee wars on casual servers, a Skullcutter Demo is a faster Heavy with a longer range and faster attack speed.
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