[QUOTE=Dippy;28312963]See that, Biodude? This is a critique.[/quote]
I've not been going for constructive criticism because these are so terrible.
[quote]On the proportions, I spent 3 hours trying to get the legs to look right. I usually measure body proportion out in heads, but I'm not so good with "seeing" distance. Could you tell me what I could do to fix that?[/quote]
TF2's proportions are stylized - some features are exaggerated and large, whilst some are smaller and less noticeable. Overall, the characters are a bit larger-than-life, and tend to have very large hands and small feet. I'm not sure exact proportions, but it'd be easy to get - open the characters up in Model Viewer, take a screenshot of them in their reference pose and as straight-on as you can get, and measure.
[/quote]And I don't see how you can tell me they don't "fit the style" just because these don't look like straight-up translations of the male characters. I've been using references for the clothing style, the technology and the weapons. All are based on technology from the mid-century, so arguably I AM getting the asthetic right. I don't do well with [i]stylization,[/i] is that what you mean?[/quote]
There's a lot of design that's gone into the artistic style of TF2, from proportions, to colors, down to the design of the characters. For game-related art, they even have an artistic style - large brush strokes, very little "final" detail, among other nuances.
[quote]I'm not just slapping random key items onto the characters and calling them TF2 characters, but I am keeping key things in mind. You're not going to get an engineer without tools. You're not going to get a heavy who isn't fat and who isn't carrying a minugun. The scout has to have a bat and a headset. I really don't give a shit what you think of one character's weight and another's ethnicity.[/quote]
The problem is that you are. You've made the FemHeavy morbidly obese. I took screenshots of the Heavy in Model Viewer to make this exact point. The heavy may be large, but he is by no means "morbidly obese", nor "fat". Most of his weight is in his upper torso, and it holds itself as muscle. Maybe not defined, body-building muscle, but it's mostly muscle. In no way does his weight sag or droop, as fat would in quantity.
[img]http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/4370/heavyxb.png[/img]
[QUOTE=GFreeman515;28313180]@Who ever is saying Fem Heavy idea comes from BBW. So just because shes overweight mean shes a part of a fetish. That is just stupid. I cant even Explain, if you were just joking around i'll take it back.[/quote]
Possibly not, but it is the easiest explanation as for why she is so much more massive than the male Heavy. She is very large, and all of her weight is fat. Her torso is nearly dwarfed by her thighs, and each thigh is easily larger than "Bubba". Why is she fat, rather than muscular beneath a layer of fat? I don't rightfully know and a BBW fetish is the easiest and, to me, the most likely explanation.
If you want me to go into a full blown critique on each character, feel free to ask. Just be warned I [i]will[/i] tear them to shreds.
All But the Fem Engie are horrible. Just my opinion.
[QUOTE=GFreeman515;28313890]Maybe make Engie North American-ish because girls in that area like to be more independent.[/QUOTE]
She was intended to be, anyway. Thanks again for the considerate post.
[QUOTE=Humblerbee;28314201]Actually, that wasn't a critique it was more of an insult. Looking back at my post, I was a pretty huge dick, and I'm sorry for that, you probably spent alot of time on your drawings and your designs, and I shouldn't have been so disrespectful and flippant in dismissing them.[/QUOTE]
Hey, how 'bout that? Socialization, it's fucking magic.
Apology hesitantly accepted…
[QUOTE=Humblerbee;28314201]You're main problem is that the legs you are drawing are disproportionate to the torso and head, for the Scout and the Engineer. The Scout has no defined hips, which should be present with the position her legs are in, and the absence of hips causes the trunk to look elongated and even further emphasize the odd shortness of her legs, so for the Scout you should add the hips and lengthen the legs.[/quote]
Yeah, I was trying to go for perspective and I should have just done a front and side view like that jerk below your post… er, posted.
I really do need to brush up on perspective. Never got the hang of it.
[QUOTE=Humblerbee;28314201]For the Engineer the problem is simply that her legs are far too short, and you need to redraw them to match the rest of her body. The legs should account for about half the total height of the character.[/quote]
See, I appreciate that. There's something else I have trouble with. I always measure the body out to be approx. 7/12 heads tall, but do I count the head in that measurement, or not?
[QUOTE=Humblerbee;28314201]I'll throw together a drawing of my own as the OP suggests, figure I should contribute something besides snide remarks and a taint of douche-baggery.[/QUOTE]
And I thank you for it. I'm going to edit my latest reply so I don't come across like a jackass to you.
Everyone else: you can mark my posts as dumb all you like, but I don't see any of you giving me legitimate criticism. It doesn't bother me, this is just typical shit a newbie has to put up with, but the difference between me and the other new members I'm sure you're used to chasing off is that I'm not going to cry myself to sleep over your impotent mockery just because YEW DUN LIEK ME QQ. I sincerely hope that doesn't bother any of you.
But I'll bet it does. ;D
You not liking my art doesn't make me a troll. Being aloof doesn't make me a troll. Two things are for damn sure- I'm not going to let you get my first thread locked, and I'm not going to give in and do something that'll get me banned just because I'm not a member of your little clique, understand? As far as I'm concerned, you can pound your itty bitty fists for the rest of eternity, but I like it here, and I'm not going anywhere.
If the mods are worth their ranking, they'd corral you rodeo clowns and get the thread back on track.
I've seen some great female class art, but I sure as hell don't see anyone posting any. Here, let me show you how.
[img]http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/1196/femfortress2byhertzahae.jpg[/img]
I've always liked these designs the most, especially the Sniper. It emphasizes what I'm trying to do, which is to get away from the design of the male characters and give the female classes their own look and personality.
[img]http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/6861/femfortress2sniperbyher.jpg[/img]
Honestly, I don't think you should be messing with the character ideas themselves. A little stylization is fine, but Scout being a close relative of Demo? You don't mess with the basic concept of each class. You just don't. You might as well be making them aliens.
Also, as Biodude said, normal Heavy is bulky, not flabby.
[QUOTE=TheGrayFox;28314701]Honestly, I don't think you should be messing with the character ideas themselves.[/quote]
I don't think you guys are hearing what I'm saying. That's the point. I'm not removing the ideas and visual cues behind the characters, just not relying on silhouette value in the designs.
[QUOTE=TheGrayFox;28314701]A little stylization is fine, but Scout being a close relative of Demo? You don't mess with the basic concept of each class. You just don't. You might as well be making them aliens.[/quote]
I don't get how the female Scout being boisterous and obnoxious is any different from how the male Scout acts.
If it's because she's got a backstory and is related to the Demo, well then we've got a whole map dedicated to Tavish DeGroot's castle, several items and weapons in honor of Demoman's royal heritage, and contrast all of that to how many people you think have actually read the Soldier VS Demoman comic. Demoman is the most fleshed-out character in TF2 by now. Just seemed like a natural evolution of his character to introduce family members.
[QUOTE=biodude94566;28314304]I've not been going for constructive criticism because these are so terrible.[/quote]
And to that statement alone I give a resounding "fuck you" to you, too, man. And no, I don't feel that's out of line at all considering.
There's a difference between giving a critique and taking your stress and shit out on someone else and calling it "a critique." I know my work could use improvement, but "terrible" is some shitstain Sonic recolor on Deviantart. My work isn't "terrible," you simply don't like how I've designed them, and I think a lot of it has to do with this superfixation you have with FemHeavy's weight.
[QUOTE=biodude94566;28314304]TF2's proportions are stylized - some features are exaggerated and large, whilst some are smaller and less noticeable. Overall, the characters are a bit larger-than-life, and tend to have very large hands and small feet. I'm not sure exact proportions, but it'd be easy to get - open the characters up in Model Viewer, take a screenshot of them in their reference pose and as straight-on as you can get, and measure.
[/quote]
What is Model Viewer? Is that a separate program? Where do I get it?
I have Zbrush, but that's a bitch to use.
[QUOTE=biodude94566;28314304]There's a lot of design that's gone into the artistic style of TF2, from proportions, to colors, down to the design of the characters. For game-related art, they even have an artistic style - large brush strokes, very little "final" detail, among other nuances.[/quote]
Then that's something I'll need to improve upon. I tried to use the concept art for the game as reference for how I should proceed, but I obviously haven't nailed the look just yet.
[QUOTE=biodude94566;28314304]The problem is that you are. You've made the FemHeavy morbidly obese. I took screenshots of the Heavy in Model Viewer to make this exact point. The heavy may be large, but he is by no means "morbidly obese", nor "fat". Most of his weight is in his upper torso, and it holds itself as muscle. Maybe not defined, body-building muscle, but it's mostly muscle. In no way does his weight sag or droop, as fat would in quantity.
[img_thumb]http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/4370/heavyxb.png[/img_thumb][/quote]
I know full well that the male Heavy isn't as flabby as the female heavy I designed. The point is I'm NOT going for silhouette value here, I'm designing these if they were separate people who just happen to have the same jobs as the male mercs. Plenty of people design female versions of the classes as directly translated versions of the male characters. Hell, the existing Female Heavy in-game model is a straight silhouette of the male Heavy.
I've said this already, I don't know how many times.
[QUOTE=biodude94566;28314304]Possibly not, but it is the easiest explanation as for why she is so much more massive than the male Heavy. She is very large, and all of her weight is fat. Her torso is nearly dwarfed by her thighs, and each thigh is easily larger than "Bubba". Why is she fat, rather than muscular beneath a layer of fat? I don't rightfully know and a BBW fetish is the easiest and, to me, the most likely explanation.[/quote]
Because that was how I chose to design her.
Alright, so I now have a very definite answer from you to the question, "what do you think."
[QUOTE=biodude94566;28314304]If you want me to go into a full blown critique on each character, feel free to ask. Just be warned I [i]will[/i] tear them to shreds.[/QUOTE]
You've given me more than enough to go on. I've heard what you think is wrong with them, that you don't like fat chicks and that the Scout is too black. I think I got it, I'm going to hear what Humblerbee has to say.
It's not a concept if it isn't ever going to be feasibly introduced into the game in a polished sense.
[QUOTE=Allstone;28315269]It's not a concept if it isn't ever going to be feasibly introduced into the game in a polished sense.[/QUOTE]
Damn, I hope no one tells my boss, Gabe Newell. That would get me fired from my prestigious job at Valve for sure.
[QUOTE=Dippy;28315239]I don't think you guys are hearing what I'm saying. That's the point. I'm not removing the ideas and visual cues behind the characters, just not relying on silhouette value in the designs.
I don't get how the female Scout being boisterous and obnoxious is any different from how the male Scout acts.[/QUOTE]
Actually, I believe you do not understand. A Black Scottish chick is massively different from a guy who grew up on the streets of Boston. I never said personality. Not once. I said 'idea'.
Heavy is a big, simple-speaking Russian with a huge passion for large guns. Engineer is a soft-spoken genius Texan.
Stuff like this is the basic bedrock of the characters. As I said, I don't believe stuff like that should change. Also as I said, if you're messing with the absolute basics of the characters, you might as well make them aliens. Little green men from Mars would be no worse.
[QUOTE=TheGrayFox;28315450]Actually, I believe you do not understand. A Black Scottish chick is massively different from a guy who grew up on the streets of Boston. I never said personality. Not once. I said 'idea'.
Heavy is a big, simple-speaking Russian with a huge passion for large guns. Engineer is a soft-spoken genius Texan.[/QUOTE]
Again, that's the point. What part of [b][i]"THEY ARE DESIGNED TO BE THEIR OWN CHARACTERS, THEY HAVE THEIR OWN PERSONALITIES AND THEIR OWN DESIGNS, NOT JUST FEMALE VERSIONS OF THE MALE DESIGNS."[/i][/b] don't you people seem to grasp? Good god, it's like talking to a wall.
And besides, my heavy is a big, simple-speaking Alabaman with a huge passion not only for large guns, but also her own large guns. Which is why she protects them with Kevlar.
[QUOTE=TheGrayFox;28315450]Stuff like this is the basic bedrock of the characters. As I said, I don't believe stuff like that should change. Also as I said, if you're messing with the absolute basics of the characters, you might as well make them aliens. Little green men from Mars would be no worse.[/QUOTE]
That is basically saying the exact same thing twice.
If this is your main gripe, people, you're in for a real sore ride, because your main gripe is the main point of these designs.
[QUOTE=Dippy;28315239]And to that statement alone I give a resounding "fuck you" to you, too, man. And no, I don't feel that's out of line at all considering.[/quote]
Love you, too, babe.
[quote]There's a difference between giving a critique and taking your stress and shit out on someone else and calling it "a critique." I know my work could use improvement, but "terrible" is some shitstain Sonic recolor on Deviantart. My work isn't "terrible," you simply don't like how I've designed them, and I think a lot of it has to do with this superfixation you have with FemHeavy's weight.[/quote]
There's more than one type of terrible. You're a kind of person that I hate as well. You've got a basic grasp of everything, and yet you pass it off as a much more thorough grasp of it all. You flaunt your knowledge, and refuse to admit you're wrong. I'll admit that you are better than most and your understanding and grasp of the subject matter are better and you don't throw around the terms of the trade without knowing anything about them.
[quote]What is Model Viewer? Is that a separate program? Where do I get it?[/quote]
Model Viewer is a simple program that is basically just that. A program for viewing models. It comes packaged with Source SDK, and you can basically load models, and then work with them via a few tabs. Most of the time, people use it (for TF2) to pose (loading the character's actual animations) the characters. The Heavy I pictured is an example. And while my knowledge of it is intermediate at best, it's all more I need.
[quote]Then that's something I'll need to improve upon. I tried to use the concept art for the game as reference for how I should proceed, but I obviously haven't nailed the look just yet.[/quote]
I would look more into fixing the concepts before you start on the finer details such as the specific artistic style of concept renders.
[quote]I know full well that the male Heavy isn't as flabby as the female heavy I designed. The point is I'm NOT going for silhouette value here, I'm designing these if they were separate people who just happen to have the same jobs as the male mercs. Plenty of people design female versions of the classes as directly translated versions of the male characters. Hell, the existing Female Heavy in-game model is a straight silhouette of the male Heavy.[/quote]
That's all fine and dandy but there's a lot more to take into consideration. The Heavy physically can't be fat. Sasha weighs 150kg, or 330 pounds. That is a [i]lot[/i] of weight to be hefting around. Natascha will add to that with the ammo belt, and the Brass Beast is more than likely heavier due to the metals it's comprised of more than likely being heavier than Sasha or Natascha's. Someone not physically fit is not going to be able to carry around that sort of weight, period. You need to redesign them with these sorts of facts in mind. The current characters look the way they are for a reason, and redesigning them shouldn't break that mold "just because".
[quote]I've said this already, I don't know how many times.[/quote]
Just because you've said it doesn't immediately make it "right".
[quote]Because that was how I chose to design her.[/quote]
And it's piss-poor design.
[quote]You've given me more than enough to go on. I've heard what you think is wrong with them, that you don't like fat chicks and that the Scout is too black. I think I got it, I'm going to hear what Humblerbee has to say.[/QUOTE]
I've barely even started. I'm fine with any of the characters being black, [i]as long as there's a good reason.[/i] "She's the demoman's relative" is not a reason to make the character black. Hell, to me, it's just a desperate attempt to tie the character into the world.
[QUOTE=Dippy;28315560]Again, that's the point. What part of "THESE ARE THEIR OWN CHARACTERS, THEY HAVE THEIR OWN PERSONALITIES AND THEIR OWN DESIGNS" don't you people seem to grasp? Good god, you're all thicker than the meat of my Heavy's thighs.
*pound pound pound pound*
...That's fine. You don't have to think they should change.[/QUOTE]
Ah hah. And, insult number one has been fired. The funny thing is, I was giving the constructive criticism you asked for repeatedly. So, as a response, I get called thicker than approximately 300 pounds of flabby leg-fat. Honestly, I can see why people rate you dumb. Trust me, I have hundreds of dumbs under my belt (ask anyone in The Emporium....), and this is exactly the attitude that will get you those ratings.
You don't have to agree with me, but by delving into childish insults, you have gone and made yourself look VERY stupid. And I suggest calming down before your next reply, or you will only dig your grave deeper.
Peace out.
~TheGrayFox
[QUOTE=biodude94566;28315620]Love you, too, babe.[/quote]
Oh, good. I was wondering when this would devolve into mindless taunting.
It soothes me to know that I frustrate you.
[QUOTE=biodude94566;28315620]There's more than one type of terrible. You're a kind of person that I hate as well. You've got a basic grasp of everything, and yet you pass it off as a much more thorough grasp of it all. You flaunt your knowledge, and refuse to admit you're wrong. I'll admit that you are better than most and your understanding and grasp of the subject matter are better and you don't throw around the terms of the trade without knowing anything about them.[/quote]
I really don't care what you think of me. If these pictures are enough to get you to derail my thread and throw shit at me, you don't deserve the "gold member" status you have here.
And I haven't even been a member here for a full 24 hours.
And I've been more than willing to admit to being wrong, even asking for advice on how to improve. It's just that your critiques are nothing more than superficial piddling. The only real worthwhile criticism I've gotten came from Humblerbee.
[QUOTE=biodude94566;28315620]Model Viewer is a simple program that is basically just that. A program for viewing models. It comes packaged with Source SDK, and you can basically load models, and then work with them via a few tabs. Most of the time, people use it (for TF2) to pose (loading the character's actual animations) the characters. The Heavy I pictured is an example. And while my knowledge of it is intermediate at best, it's all more I need.[/quote]
I'm not able to run Source SDK on my OS.
[QUOTE=biodude94566;28315620]I would look more into fixing the concepts before you start on the finer details such as the specific artistic style of concept renders.[/quote]
[QUOTE=biodude94566;28315620]That's all fine and dandy but there's a lot more to take into consideration. The Heavy physically can't be fat. Sasha weighs 150kg, or 330 pounds. That is a [i]lot[/i] of weight to be hefting around. Natascha will add to that with the ammo belt, and the Brass Beast is more than likely heavier due to the metals it's comprised of more than likely being heavier than Sasha or Natascha's. Someone not physically fit is not going to be able to carry around that sort of weight, period. You need to redesign them with these sorts of facts in mind. The current characters look the way they are for a reason, and redesigning them shouldn't break that mold "just because".[/quote]
Male Heavy is a walking caricature. His legs would break under the combined weight of his gun and himself, and he's built like a gorilla. I highly doubt that you need Popeye arms to carry a minigun, and gorilla arms aren't very attractive on men OR women, so I decided against it. I also made her minigun smaller and lighter just in case.
[QUOTE=biodude94566;28315620]Just because you've said it doesn't immediately make it "right".[/quote]
Neither are your superficial nitpicks about how the characters look.
[QUOTE=biodude94566;28315620]And it's piss-poor design.[/quote]
As are these gripes you call "critiques."
[QUOTE=biodude94566;28315620]I've barely even started. I'm fine with any of the characters being black, [i]as long as there's a good reason.[/i] "She's the demoman's relative" is not a reason to make the character black. Hell, to me, it's just a desperate attempt to tie the character into the world.[/QUOTE]
Just like I said to GrayFox, Demoman's basically the most fleshed-out character in the game. Do you see a map based on Soldier's backstory? Why NOT give him relatives in the game?
I <3 Facepunch!
[QUOTE=Dippy;28315349]Damn, I hope no one tells my boss, Gabe Newell. That would get me fired from my prestigious job at Valve for sure.[/QUOTE]Well I was trying to help you avoid flak from pedants, but okay.
[QUOTE=TheGrayFox;28315683]Ah hah. And, insult number one has been fired. The funny thing is, I was giving the constructive criticism you asked for repeatedly. So, as a response, I get called thicker than approximately 300 pounds of flabby leg-fat.[/quote]
Check the post again, boss. I edited the insult out before you posted. Also it's probably more like 150 Lbs, fat itself isn't very heavy.
[QUOTE=TheGrayFox;28315683]Honestly, I can see why people rate you dumb. Trust me, I have hundreds of dumbs under my belt (ask anyone in The Emporium....), and this is exactly the attitude that will get you those ratings.[/quote]
Like I said, I'm not going to bend over and take whatever insults are flung my way like a good newbie.
You think this is the first forum I've signed up for where the members were assholes? Please, don't flatter yourself. If anything, this just encourages me to post more often.
[QUOTE=TheGrayFox;28315683]You don't have to agree with me, but by delving into childish insults, you have gone and made yourself look VERY stupid.[/quote]
Oh, stop with this sanctimonious garbage. You're making my gizzard quake.
[QUOTE=TheGrayFox;28315683]And I suggest calming down before your next reply, or you will only dig your grave deeper.[/quote]
My friend, I appreciate your advice about as much as a nail through the foot, but you're the one bellyaching about me "calling you names." I'm about a hair past chill right now, and I don't imagine any of you actually doing anything to piss me off... buuuut I wouldn't put it past you guys to try, either.
Night's still yo-- HOOOOLY SHIT, NO IT ISN'T!
3 AM means nighty night.
Would everybody just [i]calm the fuck down[/i]
[QUOTE=Dippy;28316077]Check the post again, boss. I edited the insult out before you posted. Also it's probably more like 150 Lbs, fat itself isn't very heavy.
Like I said, I'm not going to bend over and take whatever insults are flung my way like a good newbie.
You think this is the first forum I've signed up for where the members were assholes? Please, don't flatter yourself. If anything, this just encourages me to post more often.
Oh, stop with this sanctimonious garbage. You're putting me to sleep.
My friend, I appreciate your advice about as much as a nail through the foot, but you're the one bellyaching about me "calling you names." I'm about a hair past chill right now, and I don't imagine any of you actually doing anything to piss me off.[/QUOTE]
Nope, sorry. You're not gonna incite a proper reaction from me, so make do with this: Everything you just said has proved me right. And don't bother replying, because I'm not reading this thread again until you grow up.
[QUOTE=TheGrayFox;28316141]Nope, sorry. You're not gonna incite a proper reaction from me, so make do with this: Everything you just said has proved me right. And don't bother replying, because I'm not reading this thread again until you grow up.[/QUOTE]
Not trying to incite anything from you. I don't really care if you post again or not, that's one less person trying to derail the thread.
[QUOTE=mutated;28316128]Would everybody just [i]calm the fuck down[/i][/QUOTE]
I second this motion.
[QUOTE=Dippy;28315957]Oh, good. I was wondering when this would devolve into mindless taunting.
It soothes me to know that I frustrate you.[/quote]
It's a way to pass the time. And I love how everyone I really ever argue with "takes the moral high road". Just because I'm swearing and calling you names doesn't automatically mean I'm mad or frustrated.
[quote]I really don't care what you think of me. If these pictures are enough to get you to derail my thread and throw shit at me, you don't deserve the "gold member" status you have here.
And I haven't even been a member here for a full 24 hours.[/quote]
That's cool. :smile:
[quote]And I've been more than willing to admit to being wrong, even asking for advice on how to improve. It's just that your critiques are nothing more than superficial piddling. The only real worthwhile criticism I've gotten came from Humblerbee.[/quote]
You have [i]never[/i] admitted being on any of this. You just pull some bullshit reasoning out of your ass about why it works, even though the reason is just as nonsensical as the design in the first place.
[quote]I'm not able to run Source SDK on my OS.[/quote]
What're you on? Mac or Linux? I'm sure you can find some Windows emulator (I can only think of WINE off the top of my head) and run the program long enough to grab the necessary images. If not, the internet is more than likely holding exactly what you need.
[quote]Male Heavy is a walking caricature. His legs would break under the combined weight of his gun and himself, and he's built like a gorilla. I highly doubt that you need Popeye arms to carry a minigun, and gorilla arms aren't very attractive on men OR women, so I decided against it. I also made her minigun smaller and lighter just in case.[/quote]
So you decided to throw out the artistic design of the game (which is the entire reason that the Heavy "is a walking caricature") for your own perception of what is and isn't attractive. It doesn't quite work that way.
[quote]Just like I said to GrayFox, Demoman's basically the most fleshed-out character in the game. Do you see a map based on Soldier's backstory? Why NOT give him relatives in the game?[/QUOTE]
There is no reason to not give him relatives. [i]However[/i], the fact of the matter is that [i]his entire family is explosives-obsessed (half) blind, sword wielding maniacs just like him.[/i] And you want to just up and change this with making his niece the FemScout.
[QUOTE=Dippy;28316077]Also it's probably more like 150 Lbs, fat itself isn't very heavy.[/QUOTE]
I realize I'm a skinny fucker, but I only weight 130 pounds (6', for what it matters). Having a single thigh weight 150 pounds (or even spread over both) is terribly unhealthy and unbefitting of the Heavy.
[editline]27th February 2011[/editline]
Also, cut the moral high road bullshit.
Just a word of advice: Try to take criticism as helpful advice rather than a fucking attack. Maybe if you actually listen to what they're saying, you'll be a better person for it. If at the moment you're just pissing people off, you'll be pissing people off for the rest of your life.
[QUOTE=biodude94566;28316213]It's a way to pass the time. And I love how everyone I really ever argue with "takes the moral high road". Just because I'm swearing and calling you names doesn't automatically mean I'm mad or frustrated.[/quote]
Okay.
[QUOTE=biodude94566;28316213]That's cool. :smile:[/quote]
That IS cool, isn't it?
[QUOTE=biodude94566;28316213]You have [i]never[/i] admitted being on any of this. You just pull some bullshit reasoning out of your ass about why it works, even though the reason is just as nonsensical as the design in the first place.[/quote]
Not with you. Humblerbee made some great points about the perspective, and I asked him/her to elaborate with interest. I don't really care about your criticism because I'm not planning on changing the designs just because you dun' wike dem.
[QUOTE=biodude94566;28316213]What're you on? Mac or Linux? I'm sure you can find some Windows emulator (I can only think of WINE off the top of my head) and run the program long enough to grab the necessary images. If not, the internet is more than likely holding exactly what you need.[/quote]
Mac. I'm trying to install XP on a partition with Bootcamp, and I've almost got it, but the setup keeps on freezing for some reason. I gave up on it a week ago, might try it again.
[QUOTE=biodude94566;28316213]So you decided to throw out the artistic design of the game (which is the entire reason that the Heavy "is a walking caricature") for your own perception of what is and isn't attractive. It doesn't quite work that way.[/quote]
I'll probably do an update for this design, thin the hips out a bit and make the hands a little bigger. Just because there's a median body size for the characters doesn't mean I have to adhere to it. Women aren't built like men, not even fat women.
[QUOTE=biodude94566;28316213]There is no reason to not give him relatives. [i]However[/i], the fact of the matter is that [i]his entire family is explosives-obsessed (half) blind, sword wielding maniacs just like him.[/i] And you want to just up and change this with making his niece the FemScout.[/quote]
That's why I loved the idea. She chose a career that diverges drastically from her father's family legacy. Maybe she doesn't like her dad, maybe being a scout appeals to her more than being a Demo. It's the juxtaposition I liked about it.
Really the only other reason the idea stuck was because I kept coming up with ideas for domination and revenge lines.
"YE MIGHT WANNA PULL YER VOICE BOX OUT OF YER LOINS BEFORE YE SEND ME OFF TO ME ROOM, DA."
"OH, TRULY, YE CHOSE A BETTER CAREER THAN I."
"I'LL LET MA KNOW TO SET TWO PLACES FOR YE; ONE FOR EITHER HALF OF YA!"
"YER GITTIN' SOFT, OLD MAN."
"IT LOOKS LIKE YE BUILT THAT VEST OUT OF OLD TIRES!"
[QUOTE=biodude94566;28316213]I realize I'm a skinny fucker, but I only weight 130 pounds (6', for what it matters). Having a single thigh weight 150 pounds (or even spread over both) is terribly unhealthy and unbefitting of the Heavy.[/quote]
You're talking about a video game with a cartoon asthetic wherein the characters are placed in dangerous situations against one another and someone dies every other second. I don't think you can argue "health" or "fitness" in this situation. Not only that, but the characters will occasionally do damage to themselves and use items on themselves that can't be good for their physiology. This is why the game has Medics.
Maybe her fall damage would be higher than the male heavy's. Heh.
[QUOTE=biodude94566;28316213][editline]27th February 2011[/editline]
Also, cut the moral high road bullshit.[/QUOTE]
I don't know what you're talking about.
[editline]27th February 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Flyingman356;28316290]Just a word of advice: Try to take criticism as helpful advice rather than a fucking attack. Maybe if you actually listen to what they're saying, you'll be a better person for it. If at the moment you're just pissing people off, you'll be pissing people off for the rest of your life.[/QUOTE]
I have. Check out my second reply to Humblerbee. I just don't think "I don't like the character design because she's fat" is a fair critique, as I have no intention of making drastic changes to their designs.
God, these replies are long as fuck.
[QUOTE=Dippy;28316417]Not with you. Humblerbee made some great points about the perspective, and I asked him/her to elaborate with interest. I don't really care about your criticism because I'm not planning on changing the designs just because you dun' wike it.[/quote]
So we're only allowed to critique your art, but not their design?
[quote]Mac. I'm trying to install XP on a partition but the setup keeps on crashing or something. I gave up a week ago.[/quote]
My guess would be a bad MBR. In most cases, you want to install Windows first, then UNIX after.
[quote]That's why I loved the idea. She chose a career that diverges drastically from her father's family legacy. Maybe she doesn't like her dad, maybe being a scout appeals to her more than being a Demo. It's the juxtaposition I liked about it.
Really the only other reason the idea stuck was because I kept coming up with ideas for domination and revenge lines.[/quote]
"I'm being different because I want to and you're all just haters". That's all your argument is coming down to.
[quote]a. It's a cartoon. Rather a video game with a cartoonish aesthetic. Not to mention, a game where people are frequently placed in situations where they die constantly anyway.[/quote]
You complain about the Heavy's anatomy not working, yet the moment I bring up your character, you spin around with the exact same argument I used against you. One helluva double standard.
[quote]b. Scout claims Heavy has "hard arteries." What's healthy about that?[/quote]
The Scout called Heavy fat! That [i]must[/i] mean he's morbidly obese and therefore unhealthy!
[quote]c. That's why they gave us Medics.[/quote]
I don't think the Medic can heal being fat.
[quote]I don't know what you're talking about.[/quote]
"I'm going to say I'm not replying and be the better man, [i]heh[/i]"
[quote]I have. Check out my second reply to Humblerbee. I just don't think "I don't like the character design because she's fat" is a fair critique, as I have no intention of making drastic changes to their designs.[/quote]
Except it's a legitimate critique? You can't just throw design down the shitter because "you don't like it". And that's all it comes down to.
[QUOTE=Dippy;28316164]I second this motion.[/QUOTE]
Then fucking [i]do[/i] that
[QUOTE=biodude94566;28316600]So we're only allowed to critique your art, but not their design?[/quote]
You can do whatever you like, actually. I'm just not planning on changing their designs too much.
[QUOTE=biodude94566;28316600]My guess would be a bad MBR. In most cases, you want to install Windows first, then UNIX after.[/quote]
I'm not trying to install Unix, I haven't even been able to finish installing Windows.
[QUOTE=biodude94566;28316600]"I'm being different because I want to and you're all just haters". That's all your argument is coming down to.[/quote]
So because I don't want to change the designs too much, I'm a SPESHUL SNOWFLAKE, and I apparently can't take criticism even though the "criticism" you give is entirely based on the fact that you don't like the physique of the character I've designed?
Wow, you really want to conform to that wincing DeviantART Sonic Fanboy Recolor stereotype so I'm easier to deal with, don't you?
[QUOTE=biodude94566;28316600]You complain about the Heavy's anatomy not working, yet the moment I bring up your character, you spin around with the exact same argument I used against you. One helluva double standard.[/quote]
I didn't say it doesn't work. It works for the game because it's cartoonish. But that's it, why bother arguing to me about physics and anatomy when the character she's based on doesn't bother following those same basic laws?
[quote]The Scout called Heavy fat! That [i]must[/i] mean he's morbidly obese and therefore unhealthy!
I don't think the Medic can heal being fat.[/quote]
Yeah I changed the post before you posted your reply. Those were stupid points and I removed them.
See, I just admitted to being wrong. Now you're going to act like this is new.
[QUOTE=biodude94566;28316600]"I'm going to say I'm not replying and be the better man, [i]heh[/i]"[/quote]
Grayfox is the one who said that. I'm more than happy to reply to people. I'm just not going to piss myself over someone not liking me.
[QUOTE=biodude94566;28316600]Except it's a legitimate critique? You can't just throw design down the shitter because "you don't like it". And that's all it comes down to.[/QUOTE]
Except it's not. It's just you not liking fat chicks, and then coming up with half-assed justifications when I tell you that's not a valid criticism. I'm not throwing design down the shitter. She has a design, you just don't like it, and unless you're willing to hire me and pay me to design something, then that's just, like, your opinion, man.
I took the proportion and perspective advice from Humblerbee because it was about Scout and Scout is supposed to have normal body proportions.
And actually, so is the Fem Heavy, but your gripe isn't about the proportions, it's with her weight.
[editline]27th February 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=mutated;28316789]Then fucking [i]do[/i] that[/QUOTE]
Good advice. Why don't you give the same to the people who are arguing with me? I'm just defending my position.
Most of you are just griping for the sake of griping and honestly, do I really need to resp OH NO I'M TAKING THE MORAL HIGH GROUND HELP
I really thought this would be a nice little thread where people would share designs they've either made or found, but I'm the only one who's posted anything relevant to the topic and everyone else has either whizzed in and out with some meaningless driveby insult or stuck around to derail the thread.
In every other forum I've been a part of, derailing is against the rules. I'm going to stop*arguing with this Gold Member (obviously this wasn't a title he won due to his demeanor) and see if anyone else is going to contribute to it. I don't know where the hell the mods are, but I fully expect them to ban me and leave the rest of you alone, so if I'm still an active member tomorrow, we'll see if this even deserves to stay open.
[QUOTE=Dippy;28316855]You can do whatever you like, actually. I'm just not planning on changing their designs too much.[/quote]
"Hey guys, here are some concepts I want critiquing on, but let me not tell you that I'm not taking any critiques on their design!"
[quote]I'm not trying to install Unix, I haven't even been able to finish installing Windows.[/quote]
OSX is a Unix-based operating system. :colbert:
[quote]So because I don't want to change the designs too much, I'm a SPESHUL SNOWFLAKE, and I apparently can't take criticism even though the "criticism" you give is entirely based on the fact that you don't like the physique of the character I've designed?[/quote]
You're special because you're adhering to your designs, thinking they're solid concepts that could get into the game (from what I've gathered), and refuse to change because of logical reasoning presented to you for a reason no better than "I don't want to".
[quote]Wow, you really want to conform to that wincing DeviantART Sonic Fanboy Recolor stereotype so I'm easier to deal with, don't you?[/quote]
The only thing you have going for separating you from them is that you can type and draw coherently.
[quote]I didn't say it doesn't work. It works for the game because it's cartoonish. But that's it, why bother arguing to me about physics and anatomy when the character she's based on doesn't bother following those same basic laws?[/quote]
The Heavy is cartoony, yes. But he only has exaggerated proportions - a large upper torso, and a smaller upper torso. There is reasoning behind this, like drawing the players' attention upward, where their attention should be. Your character, on the other hand, is simply large so she can be similar to the Heavy, and because you want her to be.
[quote]Yeah I changed the post before you posted your reply.[/quote]
I can't very handily see that while I'm still typing up a reply, can I?
[quote]Except it's not. It's just you not liking fat chicks, and then coming up with half-assed justifications when I tell you that's not a valid criticism. I'm not throwing design down the shitter. She has a design, you just don't like it, and unless you're willing to hire me and pay me to design something, then that's just, like, your opinion, man.[/quote]
Where did I ever say I had a single problem with fat chicks as a whole? I have a problem with your Heavy's design, and it happens that she is fat. Overly fat.
[quote]I took the proportion and perspective advice from Humblerbee because it was about Scout and Scout is supposed to have normal body proportions.[/quote]
Maybe "the most" normal, but he's still got some pretty wacky proportions. Giant hands, small feet, etc.,.
[quote]And actually, so is the Fem Heavy, but your gripe isn't about the proportions, it's with her weight.[/quote]
I can't very handedly gripe about proportions directly when the entire concept is [i]overly massive[/i]. She's fat, that's the first proportion that's wrong. Too big around.
[quote]Good advice. Why don't you give the same to the people who are arguing with me? I'm just defending my position.[/QUOTE]
And I'm not? I've got my own position in this argument that I'm trying to defend. You just don't happen to agree with, nor like, it.
Heavy is adorable, I wouldn't choose that female heavy over her. I wouldn't replace any class with a female counterpart, only because I love all the classes.
[QUOTE=Dippy;28315349]Damn, I hope no one tells my boss, Gabe Newell. That would get me fired from my prestigious job at Valve for sure.[/QUOTE]
Gee, Valve must have lowered their standards if they hire a concept artist who doesn't even have basic knowledge of human anatomy or perspective.
Tell me, where did you work to get the prerequisite 3+ years of industry experience before Valve hired you?
[QUOTE=biodude94566;28317104]"Hey guys, here are some concepts I want critiquing on, but let me not tell you that I'm not taking any critiques on their design!"[/quote]
I've changed the OP so that's more apparent.
[quote]You're special because you're adhering to your designs, thinking they're solid concepts that could get into the game (from what I've gathered), and refuse to change because of logical reasoning presented to you for a reason no better than "I don't want to".[/quote]
[quote]The only thing you have going for separating you from them is that you can type and draw coherently.[/quote]
Ok.
[quote]The Heavy is cartoony, yes. But he only has exaggerated proportions - a large upper torso, and a smaller upper torso. There is reasoning behind this, like drawing the players' attention upward, where their attention should be.[/quote]
Or to simply draw the player's attention TO them, which is very well accomplished with the Heavy being so big and loud.
Also, she's designed to be just as attention grabbing. Big, loud and bouncy.
Boingy boingy boingy.
[quote]Your character, on the other hand, is simply large so she can be similar to the Heavy, and because you want her to be.[/quote]
And?
[quote]I can't very handily see that while I'm still typing up a reply, can I?[/quote]
Just letting you know.
[quote]Where did I ever say I had a single problem with fat chicks as a whole? I have a problem with your Heavy's design, and it happens that she is fat. Overly fat.[/quote]
And seeing as how that's your only gripe and your reasoning behind it is shaky... dude, come on. You even tried to pull the "BUT FAT IS UNHEALTHY" argument on me. This is about you and your knee-jerk repulsion to her body. Nothing more.
[quote]Maybe "the most" normal, but he's still got some pretty wacky proportions. Giant hands, small feet, etc.,.[/quote]
I realize that.
[quote]I can't very handedly gripe about proportions directly when the entire concept is [i]overly massive[/i]. She's fat, that's the first proportion that's wrong. Too big around.[/quote]
...
...OH, WAIT! Your criticism is that she's FAT? Well why didn't you say so?
[quote]And I'm not? I've got my own position in this argument that I'm trying to defend. You just don't happen to agree with, nor like, it.[/QUOTE]
You're right, you are. We both are.
I'd actually love it if we'd both end this discussion right now so this doesn't get locked or something. I see your points and I understand them. I'd love it even more if more people posted relevant content.
Also, how the fuck did you get the front handle on the minigun wrong?
There were only two positions you could have put it in, and you had photo reference. How did you manage that?
[QUOTE=The Vman;28317335]Also, how the fuck did you get the front handle on the minigun wrong?
There were only two positions you could have put it in, and you had photo reference. How did you manage that?[/QUOTE]
It's different don't question his design!
[QUOTE=The Vman;28317278]Gee, Valve must have lowered their standards if they hire a concept artist who doesn't even have basic knowledge of human anatomy or perspective.
Tell me, where did you work to get the prerequisite 3+ years of industry experience before Valve hired you?[/QUOTE]
Again, the criteria for "Gold member" obviously has no bearing on one's demeanor. Where are the mods in this place, are they... oh god, don't tell me you guys are the mods.
Oh my gooood how has this place not collapsed in on itself.
Tell me, when you were intentionally missing the sarcasm in my post just to give asspats to Valve, did you happen to catch what I was trying to tell him?
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