Map Testing Program General Discussion - Games

i want the rock to the left of cactus canyon blu spawn (stage 1) to be more easily trimpable, you can do it but you have to be somewhat precise. would be awesome to charge the sniper deck or beyond

[QUOTE=Segab;45365610]Also the map is a little too Sniper friendly. There's a lot of viable options for Snipers to just stay and camp at the same place without risk. It makes the first point really hard to get if there's a good Sniper and a sentry guarding it.[/QUOTE] I played another 30 minutes of the map as Sniper because I wanted to be more precise about this. I took pictures of corridors that I felt were way too long and unobstructed, and was able to stay there without any risk, getting headshots after headshots. This place is the worst. Snipers can dominate this area. Look at how many paths you cover by just sidestepping, and if there's a rocket coming you can hide easily within a second and there's a healthpack pretty close. [t]http://i.imgur.com/OJua01z.jpg[/t][t]http://i.imgur.com/tu35H1f.jpg[/t] Here you get a nice view of a ramp that makes the cart go back if nobody's touching it. What this means is that if you can keep headshotting the people pushing the cart on that ramp, they won't be able to make any progress. Still a safe spot for Snipers, since the spawn is right behind. Maybe make the wall on the right bigger, it would make Snipers' job harder by obstructing their view a bit more. [t]http://i.imgur.com/s9vrMpC.jpg[/t] This path here is hard to go through if a red Sniper is guarding it. Going close to that bridge thing pretty much guarantees your death before even seeing the Sniper, because the red Sniper can bodyshot you first. [t]http://i.imgur.com/2yhoij0.jpg[/t][t]http://i.imgur.com/I1aa7ap.jpg[/t] Here a Sniper can cover the entire path. At this part of the map people switch to Soldier just to get to the other side by rocketjumping without getting shot. And then both teams end up with 5 Soldiers. [t]http://i.imgur.com/fveojXN.jpg[/t] A problem not related to the Sniper, here Blu always takes damage when falling off this ledge if they hold W. Nobody takes the little staircase at the bottom of the second pic, why is it even there? [t]http://i.imgur.com/yh02U3Q.jpg[/t][t]http://i.imgur.com/M1r5OyA.jpg[/t] Also there's a safe spot here [t]http://i.imgur.com/Xqvx7eQ.jpg[/t]

[QUOTE=Segab;45372788]A problem not related to the Sniper, here Blu always takes damage when falling off this ledge if they hold W. Nobody takes the little staircase at the bottom of the second pic, why is it even there? [t]http://i.imgur.com/yh02U3Q.jpg[/t][t]http://i.imgur.com/M1r5OyA.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] I was playing the map earlier, and I didn't get any fall damage here. It probably depends on the speed of the class.

They need to tweak the point system in RD. If you cap a reactor with 200+ plus cores, that gives you a crazy 20-30 points for doing so. This is way too high considering capping an intel is worth like 2 points. I've gotten a few "On the bright side..." regarding points on lives I wouldn't consider that amazing.

[QUOTE=Fapplejack;45372884]They need to tweak the point system in RD. If you cap a reactor with 200+ plus cores, that gives you a crazy 20-30 points for doing so. This is way too high considering capping an intel is worth like 2 points. I've gotten a few "On the bright side..." regarding points on lives I wouldn't consider that amazing.[/QUOTE] The thing is though it's really hard to get away with the core so I sort of agree with the amount of points you get. It should be less over time though, and I think it should reward the person who traveled the most with it.

[QUOTE=Zadrave;45372935]The thing is though it's really hard to get away with the core so I sort of agree with the amount of points you get. It should be less over time though, and I think it should reward the person who traveled the most with it.[/QUOTE] I said it was too hard to steal cores earlier, but now that I've played loads I think I've changed my mind. If you have just one other teammate who can hold the door for you, it's really easy to get in and out. Maybe I'm just playing against bads, but now it seems that the core is not actually too tough to get. All those points really add up too. I once looked at the scoreboard and found I had 100 points when nobody else had over 30 :v:

[QUOTE=Upgrade;45363865]I knew there was something funky with the robot hitboxes. I should not be able to hit the robot when shooting about it. Yet: [t]http://i.imgur.com/ksXQoIT.jpg[/t] Unfortunately, TF2 has apparently removed the ability to show hitboxes so I had to use tf_debug_flamethrower [t]http://i.imgur.com/4TRXPQO.jpg[/t] Relative height of hitbox vs robot. [t]http://i.imgur.com/xkuOFBv.jpg[/t] [t]http://i.imgur.com/mwCeuI0.jpg[/t] As always, the hitboxes "look" fine when viewed in Model Viewer probably since it's only showing the hitscan hitbox.[/QUOTE] I think they broke Sentry hitboxes too. I've hurt myself so many times trying to shoot over a small level 1 sentry only to hit it's invisible box and get tonnes of damage.

Heavy + Medic combos can walk through the lasers without dieing. I think they should spread the lasers more apart, and make them do a little bit more damage. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmBqZBTQTv4#t=1m40s[/media] Skip to 1m 40s to see the laser part.

[QUOTE=Upgrade;45372665][t]http://i.imgur.com/1uiuMym.jpg[/t] I played a game where the teleporter for both teams simply refused to work. We did win, but it took an ungodly amount of time. Often by the time we destroyed the A and B bots and fended off the enemy team, the A bots had respawned. Fortunately one of our Engies hid a teleporter in their water pool. Without the teleporter to quickly get you to mid, it feels like a really extended version of 2fort. I guess the enemy team had the same amount of trouble with time wasted just getting out of their base.[/QUOTE] I might be wrong but I think this is down to a friendly engineer trying to upgrade that teleport which causes it to stop working. I'm not sure if they need to build their own teleport first but I've seen a troll engineer upgrading the spawn teleport and screwing us over.

[QUOTE=Cypher100;45380485]Heavy + Medic combos can walk through the lasers without dieing. I think they should spread the lasers more apart, and make them do a little bit more damage. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmBqZBTQTv4#t=1m40s[/media] Skip to 1m 40s to see the laser part.[/QUOTE] Wow I always thought they insta killed.

[QUOTE=1 Duck;45395559]I might be wrong but I think this is down to a friendly engineer trying to upgrade that teleport which causes it to stop working. I'm not sure if they need to build their own teleport first but I've seen a troll engineer upgrading the spawn teleport and screwing us over.[/QUOTE] No, I've seen retarded scunts on my team destroy our own teleporter, then just stand there and taunt laugh. I have actually never seen a douchebag kicked that fast. So that isn't it. [editline]15th July 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=MrCasual;45395594]Wow I always thought they insta killed.[/QUOTE] No, you can walk through it if you're overhealed. I think it pertains to your classes health and takes a percentage away from it. I've QF'ed scouts to run it in and they made it through with 5-10 hp left.

Guys, i think Sentry Holing should be a new gamemode... [IMG]http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/590286345709499049/F3A99F241850BE332031D2D300CCC6DA3AE2C981/[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Kirillian;45396685]Guys, i think Sentry Holing should be a new gamemode...[/QUOTE] You build a sentry in a hole that nobody walks by ever, and then the entire game turns Russian for no reason? Might be fun.

[QUOTE=Drury;45397475]You build a sentry in a hole that nobody walks by ever, and then the entire game turns Russian for no reason? Might be fun.[/QUOTE] Well, the problem is that actually reaches the point of ammo and medkit on the left... So you can sentry camp.

Why not build a sentry in a spot where it's easily repaired and difficult to destroy, though?

[QUOTE=Drury;45397501]Why not build a sentry in a spot where it's easily repaired and difficult to destroy, though?[/QUOTE] I was looking for other stuff on their map, i tried everything and found only this... and a trap with secret room that is not avaiable to reach right now. I just was looking for glitches exploities and stuff. Also you can jump down on your building. And upgrade it if you want to. And... For "Special people" if you will build a teleporter over here, your teammate who will get into it will die instantly. So... Yeap. I guess.

[QUOTE=MrCasual;45395594]Wow I always thought they insta killed.[/QUOTE] When the map first came out, it most definitely insta-killed; but they updated it so they just hurt really bad.

is it just me or do red win every time on asteroid?

[QUOTE=Cypher100;45380485]Heavy + Medic combos can walk through the lasers without dieing. I think they should spread the lasers more apart, and make them do a little bit more damage. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmBqZBTQTv4#t=1m40s[/media] Skip to 1m 40s to see the laser part.[/QUOTE] FoS heavies I'm pretty sure can survive the lasers too.

[QUOTE=Capt. Tin;45401729]FoS heavies I'm pretty sure can survive the lasers too.[/QUOTE] I've managed to do it as a regular Heavy, just make sure not to get hit twice in one run and have a sandvich ready so you can make a return trip.

I'd imagine you've got to make sure it only clips you otherwise it could hit you twice and kill you.

I'm fairly sure that I've been able to survive a damage tick as a soldier with the Battalion's Backup. But you're still left with very low health.

My thoughts on Cactus Canyon. This map is so god awful fucking terrible, myself, my hand, and my ass would be embarrassed if i were to use it as a replacement for toilet paper. I have seen 12 year old's first attempts at a trade server map that are much better than this. There is only like ONE redeeming factor, and that's the decent rocket pogo stretch going down the left side on the 2nd stage, and that's it. Other than that, there is absolutely nothing that's fun about it in the slightest.

[QUOTE=Dat Lobo;45419032]My thoughts on Cactus Canyon. This map is so god awful fucking terrible, myself, my hand, and my ass would be embarrassed if i were to use it as a replacement for toilet paper. I have seen 12 year old's first attempts at a trade server map that are much better than this. There is only like ONE redeeming factor, and that's the decent rocket pogo stretch going down the left side on the 2nd stage, and that's it. Other than that, there is absolutely nothing that's fun about it in the slightest.[/QUOTE] This thread isn't for rants.

[QUOTE=Dat Lobo;45396610]No, I've seen retarded scunts on my team destroy our own teleporter, then just stand there and taunt laugh. I have actually never seen a douchebag kicked that fast. So that isn't it.[/QUOTE] Ok, since I figured out what the bug is, I'll share it with you, so if you guys see morons doing this, you can kick them before they even have a chance to break it. It happens when a scout repeatedly fires sandman balls at the teleporter. If someone takes the teleporter while a ball is hitting it, it will destroy the tele outright, or as dumbfuck scunts who need to be kicked in the balls call it, Nuking the Tele. I know valve checks this thread, so FUCKING FIX THIS. [editline]17th July 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=zekrom3112;45419078]This thread isn't for rants.[/QUOTE] Neither is the general idiocy of commenting on quasi-rants, but good job doing that. I believe this was a thread for voicing one's opinions on the new maps, and I did that. Now don't you have an mvm map to be playing for 4 hours straight?

[QUOTE=Dat Lobo;45419099]Ok, since I figured out what the bug is, I'll share it with you, so if you guys see morons doing this, you can kick them before they even have a chance to break it. It happens when a scout repeatedly fires sandman balls at the teleporter. If someone takes the teleporter while a ball is hitting it, it will destroy the tele outright, or as dumbfuck scunts who need to be kicked in the balls call it, Nuking the Tele. I know valve checks this thread, so FUCKING FIX THIS. [editline]17th July 2014[/editline] Neither is the general idiocy of commenting on quasi-rants, but good job doing that. I believe this was a thread for voicing one's opinions on the new maps, and I did that. Now don't you have an mvm map to be playing for 4 hours straight?[/QUOTE] This thread is for proper feedback. Saying "it's horrible", while technically feedback, doesn't give the slightest bit of useful information to Valve, so what's the point? The most bare-bones explanation of [I]why[/I] you hate it helps Valve improve it, rather than wasting your time and energy making a weird toilet paper analogy.

[QUOTE=Dat Lobo;45419099]Neither is the general idiocy of commenting on quasi-rants, but good job doing that. I believe this was a thread for voicing one's opinions on the new maps, and I did that. Now don't you have an mvm map to be playing for 4 hours straight?[/QUOTE] Gosh, so hostile. Just keep getting mad on the internet and see where it gets you, pal.

[QUOTE=Dat Lobo;45419032]My thoughts on Cactus Canyon. This map is so god awful fucking terrible, myself, my hand, and my ass would be embarrassed if i were to use it as a replacement for toilet paper. I have seen 12 year old's first attempts at a trade server map that are much better than this. There is only like ONE redeeming factor, and that's the decent rocket pogo stretch going down the left side on the 2nd stage, and that's it. Other than that, there is absolutely nothing that's fun about it in the slightest.[/QUOTE] koth_hydraulics_a1 was better than cactus And now I would like to give some actual critique on Ass Steroids and Cactus Canyon. [B]Asteroid[/B] This one's the better map of the two. It has a few glaring issues, like the bot hitboxes, their absurd ammounts of health, the teleporters and how awkward the layout can be, but I enjoyed it overall. It does suffer from 2fort syndrome a bit, AKA stop entrenching the objective five miles into the enemy base. But I excuse Asteroid because there's actually more than one way to win. The gamemode also isn't explained that well. The map itself is either too easy or too hard to attack. Since everybody but the Engineers goes to the battlements teleporter and have a massive deathmatch on the bridge, if you somehow get past the spam you're either stuck alone against 1-2 Engies or your entire team will roll them all the way to the back of the map. Surprisingly, it's not that long of a journey to one end of the base to the other, it just seems that way because the only way to get in mid-round alone is by taking the lower cave route and then 3-4 more detours once you're inside. And even then it's hard if you're alone because there's no way to get around A if there's a sentry. I do like the core stealing though, if you can sneak past any sentries then you can get into the core room and start stealing shit until people notice you, then you run like the wind and risk a lasery death or into the vents and risk getting trapped. Since this is a brand new gamemode, I have no real idea how to balance it, but removing the teleporters and making some more paths to bypass certain sections of the map would help a lot. Also, remove the stupid lock on certain doors so that they open regardless of whether you've killed a certain group of bots. Regardless, I'm liking this map a lot and I'm really interested in seeing where it goes. TL;DR: Experiment a bit with it, rework the bases so that they don't rely on teleporters. [B]Cactus Canyon[/B] :suicide: Valve, quick tip. First of all, don't design your maps like the 2007 abominations that are Dustbowl and Goldrush. Payload should be single stage, end of. Multi-Stage just gives way too many opportunities for the defenders to set up. If we make a good push, we shouldn't be forced to wait a minute so that the defenders can regroup onto the next stage while simultaneously losing all momentum and buildings we had. Second of all, if you're going to do multi-stage, do it like Thunder Mountain. Multi stage has only [I]ever [/I]been done well on Thunder Mountain. The first two stages are decently hard to hold with only 1 or 2 good chokepoints that are very easily flanked. The third stage sort of devolves into who can out-DM who before the cart goes into the two chokepoints before ending in a climactic tower-climbing finale. It feels more like a single stage map, hard to defend, but extremely satisfying if you pull it off. THIS is how you make a multi stage payload map. Not two bland and almost exactly equal stages, not just in aesthetics(This is beta after all) and theme but in gameplay. It just feels dull, there's no difference between this brown area with wooden huts and that brown area with wooden huts. The entire map is just samey with nothing different between the next area. Every other map has interesting and varied terrain. Look at Badwater, it starts off next to a huge ass cliff and then passes through the exterior of the RED base before going through a couple of chokepoints and into the designated intense finale area. Also, what's the objective? What gets blown up at the end? There are no bases, there's nothing but dusty terrain and wooden buildings. And for the love of god, this goddamn map has more chokepoints than fucking Dustbowl. I thought we were over this whole chokepoints everywhere shit by the time Upward came out. Why are we going back to 2007 map design, which was when Hydro was still considered a good idea. Personally, I hate this map with a passion. I played it for half an hour or so before I had to stop playing because of how abominaly bad it is. TL;DR: Remove chokepoints, make it single-stage or refer to Thunder Mountain, make the terrain more interesting, make the key areas stand out more and add a death pit with nothing but cacti.

Guys, lobo is entitled to rant about the maps. This is a feedback thread, that includes negative. Now on that note, Lobo you should actually make it constructive, say what you dislike, what to improve, etc. Just saying you dislike it doesn't help at all.

[QUOTE=Punchy;45420691]Guys, lobo is entitled to rant about the maps. This is a feedback thread, that includes negative. Now on that note, Lobo you should actually make it constructive, say what you dislike, what to improve, etc. Just saying you dislike it doesn't help at all.[/QUOTE] He is indeed entitled to his opinion, but the way he gave it was really really bad.