Map Testing Program General Discussion - Games

[QUOTE=Dat Lobo;45419032]My thoughts on Cactus Canyon. This map is so god awful fucking terrible, myself, my hand, and my ass would be embarrassed if i were to use it as a replacement for toilet paper. I have seen 12 year old's first attempts at a trade server map that are much better than this. There is only like ONE redeeming factor, and that's the decent rocket pogo stretch going down the left side on the 2nd stage, and that's it. Other than that, there is absolutely nothing that's fun about it in the slightest.[/QUOTE] Yeah there are multiple community payload maps that are way better then Cactus Canyon in it's current state like Swiftwater, Borneo, Boundary and Cashworks. It probably just would of been easier for Valve to buy one or more of them and make them official. Of course Cactus Canyon is still in beta, hopefully it will see a lot of improvements. It does feel like the map design philosophy was based on maps like Gold Rush which is baffling.

I personally like Cactus Canyon, but the first map is wayyy too Sniper friendly (I've watched pushes get eliminated by just two good Snipers that nobody can hit), and the second map has that archway that can really fuck everything up. I was on a team with eight Engineers defending, and while it was hilarious, I could feel the ass blast felt by the enemy team dealing with seven fucking Level 3s and a mini. Also, it seems like there's either way too many Spies or way too many Engineers at any point in the match. The chokepoints need reworking.

I'll just chime in here, I don't even know if Valve even looks here :v: Although it hasn't happened to me yet, I'm more than certain that an Engineer has setup right outside with the Wrangler or had a bunch of Snipers pick off people one by one. [t]http://i.imgur.com/sX4AZEv.jpg[/t] My thought was to open a third entrance to the side, I feel it's kinda empty here and giving an alternate route instead of straight ahead from the cart would give players options. Another idea is lower that Large ammo box so Engineers can't grab it for an instant refill or make it so the deck isn't so close to spawn. But the latter wouldn't solve the issue with Snipers. [t]http://i.imgur.com/bvMFa8i.jpg[/t] I would also knock down this wall on the second stage in the house thing. With only one entrance it's really difficult to rip out a holed in nest, or at least I was able to so by myself with little issue.

The new RD_asteroid is now just a shitty version of CTF. RIP the flanking routes, low-intensity areas, and multi-level combat. Welcome to 2fort_v2. [editline]17th July 2014[/editline] They seriously had to have sat down and said to themselves "how can we make sure the map has one, large chokepoint? [editline]17th July 2014[/editline] And why does Valve have such a [B]HUGE[/B] boner for spawning next to objectives? Like fucking hell was it that big a deal that one set of the lowest value robots was more than 5 feet from spawn? Now they're all within shooting distance of the spawn doors, and they've removed the "get further ahead but bypass any intruders" tradeoff the teleporter had, which as far as I know was EXCLUSIVELY unique to that map.

[QUOTE] 9:36 PM - Spydurr: [url]http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=287637501[/url] 6:37 PM - RMTB: Welcome to spacefort 6:37 PM - RMTB: Just missing ctf 6:37 PM - RMTB: The ctf gamemod [/QUOTE] Pretty much. Edit: It honestly now feels like 2Fort, which is one of my most hated maps in the game.

[QUOTE]Cactus Canyon: Ammo increased in stage 2[/QUOTE] HALLELUJAH! [video=youtube;LCVIbjmMOOI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCVIbjmMOOI[/video]

[QUOTE=Mbbird;45423773]The new RD_asteroid is now just a shitty version of CTF. RIP the flanking routes, low-intensity areas, and multi-level combat. Welcome to 2fort_v2. [editline]17th July 2014[/editline] They seriously had to have sat down and said to themselves "how can we make sure the map has one, large chokepoint? [editline]17th July 2014[/editline] And why does Valve have such a [B]HUGE[/B] boner for spawning next to objectives? Like fucking hell was it that big a deal that one set of the lowest value robots was more than 5 feet from spawn? Now they're all within shooting distance of the spawn doors, and they've removed the "get further ahead but bypass any intruders" tradeoff the teleporter had, which as far as I know was EXCLUSIVELY unique to that map.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I have to admit, most of the new changes are pretty awful. Most of the general RD mode changes are pretty good, though robots healing players seems a bit silly, and the HUD looks huge now, and I honestly preferred the previous robot skins. The Asteroid changes are mostly bad. The larger mid bridge and the terrain paths on the side of the bridge are nice (but the cave section served the same person and had more personality I guess), as is the removal of the locked doors (that stopped people being able to get past a sentry quite a lot I think). The line of sight blockers, the reduced water travel time, the drop down to enter the water, the increased glass room size are all pretty nice changes, though. The resupply cabinet is a godsend in combat, and most of the other good changes seem to be bug fixes and the like. The complete removal of the cave and lobby areas makes the map feel too tiny and cramped, and does stop the flanking methods people can take (I think the new "lobby" is much more confusing now as well). Removing the spawn teleporter is half a good change and half not. It stops the tunnel vision of people going through it, but makes it take a lot longer to actually get to the mid area of the map in combat. The rearranged robots are much more confusing and make it feel more cramped. The increased width of the vault corridors feels pointless, they're huge for no real reason. The new vent system is incredibly awkward and just doesn't feel like it fits at all. I don't really see the need for the change in setup time or power reactor max return time either. I can't say much about health and ammo pickups, as I haven't really looked for those properly. In regards to Cactus Canyon, I haven't really played it or anything, but the map just feels really off now. The new section doesn't look very good (but that's understandable), but it feels much too long now, and more confusing. I'm also pretty sure that area wasn't actually problematic at all, it was all of the sections afterwards that have been hard to deal with in my experience. Especially the area right after the first stage 2 cap and towards the final cap. Other than that, it's just fixes and the ammo change, which I've got no real idea about.

The entire gamemode had a really strong theme of [I]restraint[/I], and now it's just the "smash head into brick wall until victory" that you see at the end of PLR maps.

[IMG]http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/39722019939659268/EB083ED5DD95EBBB195BBB78EFBD4D54DF0BE0DE/[/IMG] Over-view of the map, do with it as you please. (alsosorryfordem1920x1080pics)

We all asked them to remove the tele. We all begged them to remove the tele. And now that it's gone, we see what fools we were. Also, flank routes aren't flank routes when they're more exposed and easy to see/shoot at than the main route.

I played a bit of both maps. Honestly I think making Asteroid smaller was a good decision, but removing the lower path under the bridge wasn't good, it just turns the bridge into a huge chokepoint and most of the fighting was done near the bridge. Neither team was able to capture many cores in the match I played. The first part of the second stage of Cactus Canyon does seem to be an improvement. Blu didn't instantly win, but since there weren't a lot of other major changes to the map it's still full of chokepoints. So far I feel a lot of the changes were for the better but both maps still need a lot of work.

[QUOTE=Punchy;45338801]I havent played it in a few hours but you know the middle of the map? With the bridges,[B] i want either 2 small side bridges over the spacepits,[/B] or like two floating asteroids you can jump onto as scout/soldier/extended jump classes. I don't enjoy the clausterphobia on those single bridges, we need more leg room out there[/QUOTE] hey they did the side bridges, nice

[QUOTE=ComodoreBluth;45424300]I played a bit of both maps. Honestly I think making Asteroid smaller was a good decision, but removing the lower path under the bridge wasn't good, it just turns the bridge into a huge chokepoint and most of the fighting was done near the bridge. Neither team was able to capture many cores in the match I played. The first part of the second stage of Cactus Canyon does seem to be an improvement. Blu didn't instantly win, but since there weren't a lot of other major changes to the map it's still full of chokepoints. So far I feel a lot of the changes were for the better but both maps still need a lot of work.[/QUOTE] I won't deny that making Asteroid smaller was a good idea (it was too big and too confusing), but they cut too much. If they'd just cut that weird front section before you turn left to go to the A robots or right to go to the cave, then rotated the bases so they lined up, connected the cave up to it, and then added something to stop the teams being able to get really long shots on the A robots, it probably would have been better.

I just played a game of RD_Asteroid with competent players on both sides. God. Don't make me do that again. Sure, there's no more single scouts getting into your spawn and taking your core. Sure, there's no more spawn teleporter. Sure, the map is even SHORTER. But DAMN if it isn't a stalemate-prone map. We were on that for something like 40 minutes at 120 - 100 with little to no change for either side. At one point blue got their shit together and made a number of pushes, ending the game, but it may have been because someone quit and was replaced. All in all - It's better. But I don't know what you can do to fix it now.

i'd say the worst thing thus far is removal of the underground flank route the middle is now just a complete clusterfuck that you are required to be funneled through now

I really want the return of arena maps, even if they have to come back in a different form Look at PLR, lots of maps like that are perfect for deathmatchy games, but that isn't the main focus of the map

OK, let me dump my shitload of what is recommended on the maps. [U][B]Asteroid:[/B][/U] I personally feel like the vault should be a little underground, like down to the lowest part of the vault now, and that the teams should spawn a little farther back than the vault. For the descending vault, I think that the area with the lasers should be a downward ramp. The spawn teleport should somewhat be brought back, but not the form that it was. As in have it here: [thumb]http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/575650375549379585/F95AF23053717F09D5022A17B0DCF36AF8A3DBD9/[/thumb] And have it lead here: [thumb]http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/575650375549382380/0DBF6FA265CEBA568205D91FF3B2CB5FBA9ABDDE/[/thumb] But, when setup finishes, have the area with the spawn teleport close. The underground flank should be brought back. The central bridge is too much of a choke point. Although, have the underground flank be shorter, but still long enough that the map doesn't feel like it's being over-compacted. [U][B]Cactus Canyon:[/B][/U] There are way too many choke points, and not enough flanks. All I can think of is fixing some of the flanks. Haven't played enough of the map, and haven't seen it since the update. So, I don't have too much to say.

Bridge is too chokey, just inside enemy base is too chokey, the only good flanking path is dominated by blast jumping yet again, and the intel is even more chokey now that the tunnel by it is a hole in the ground.

Cactus Canyon: Stage 2 is way better now, I was saying to myself earlier BLU should be fighting upward, as the first "area" was hard to defend/too small (leading players to set up on the infamous choke instead) and it was kind of wasted space. I think Stage 1 is mostly good, should probably get a flank added or geometry tweaked at the first checkpoint. Asteroid: I don't like all the robots close together, it feels like some strategy in the map has been stamped out. The previous feeling of progression and risk/reward for going deeper into the base made games a lot livelier. The new water route is cool, as since you can't get back up it's purely for attackers which is something more maps need. Glad the balcony area is gone too, there was no reason to attack it. Not sure if I like the tunnels completely gone, but as someone said maybe Valve will combine the two distinct rd_asteroids into something else. Everything else is good.

[QUOTE=Spydurr117;45423891]Pretty much. Edit: It honestly now feels like 2Fort, which is one of my most hated maps in the game.[/QUOTE] It felt like 2Fort before as well. It just feels like a smaller 2Fort now.

Urgh. Usually I don't get bothered by stuff like this, but in the small doorway that leads to the core, Blue set up a nest with two sentries (one was guarding the vents) in our own base. Made it impossible to pick up the core we were trying to steal that was in there along with the fact they kept stealing ours. Really hope they disable building in the core area.

Posted this in the general chat but I didn't know about this thread so here. [img]http://i.imgur.com/QRe3HeE.png[/img] They need to stretch out the robots quite a bit more. Obviously not as drastically as it was before, since it was really easy for enemy engineers to set up in your base next to the first robot wave, but something where it's not all just jammed together.

It seems that you can survive friendly laser under while in Victory! time. Not sure about the opposing team.

Me thoughts on Asteroid: The Good: I actually kind of like the changes made to Asteroid, however I'm inclined to agree about it being kind of a clusterfuck at times. Being shorter, I can now actually find my way around the map without going into a side path on accident, a bigger middle bridge means that I'm not entirely afraid of stepping out of spawn only to get snipped/sentried, more health and ammo in certain spots also made it so that I didn't have to run around in a panic back to the base in search of a health pack. They made things a bit simpler and easier to navigate, and I believe that's a step in the right direction! Bad: Map I think is a bit too simple and cramped if you know what I mean, with the underside now removed, spies don't really have much of an option to get behind enemy lines aside from braving the bridge, or it's side paths, the two facing buildings are also still a bit too much like Teufort, perhaps there can be a big opening for both bases, or maybe have the side bridges expanded with a few rocky formations to provide cover? What sucks most about Teufort is the fact that everybody has to pop out from 4 different openings that leave them wide open for attack, and they have a cramped bridge that they have to walk across if they want to get into enemy territory. The only saving grace of that area is the wide open underside and sewers that players can flank from, but even those side paths have glaring choke points which are easy to defend. What Asteroid needs in my opinion are: 1. A more open middle with some cover so that it's not a total scrimmage to get to the enemy base. The bigger bridge and two side paths are nice, but I think the side paths can be much MUCH bigger! Cover like stalagmites along the rocky paths can easily prevent snipers/spies from taking pot shots at you from long distance, as well as give somebody some much needed space to hide behind and be a real pain without being fully exposed. 2. Bring back the flanking underside path. As much as I hate them, spies and scouts need to be able to do some flanking on their own without risking confrontation on the main bridge, but both teams should also be aware of this path, and the map should be designed in a way that players are encouraged to take the alternative path to keep the enemy team on their toes. Seriously though, I think RD_Asteroid is slowly getting better, we just need to give them more feedback.. Cactus Canyon. I kinda need to play this one a bit more, but here's what I think so far: Good: I kinda haven't played offense on CC all the way to stage 2 yet, but I can tell that it's not as bad as it was before, still pretty bad though. I like how now you have to push uphill and the second map as more flanking options for exiting spawn, and it's a bit more complex on stage two which I do actually appreciate. It offers a bunch of new hiding spots for engineers to help their team push past some really awful choke points, and there are a lot more paths to slip in past enemy lines. Bad: Still is choke point hell, too many spots for defense in which you can be watched by the enemy, and they've got a lot of high ground to work off of. It's not completely foolproof defense, but a good sniper or two along with an engineer can render a push on the second point of the first half useless. It'd probably be easier if the area just after the first point was a bit more open, but I think perhaps the snipers shouldn't have such leeway on top of that hill. Some more cover and mayyyyybe make it so that there isn't so much high ground for the enemy team defending.

Asteroid is getting worse. One sentry shuts down everything, two sentries sends me spiraling into depression. Coupled with the fact that bad players are rampant, it's impossible to make any kind of push more than half the time. I just exited a game filled with anger due to the fact that, for 10 minutes, neither team could go anywhere because we were all crammed inside my team's base by a bunch of sentry nests. One sniper can also cover entire portions of the map. The spawns are just horrible. You can see both exits from the same position. A team needs some way of getting behind invaders sitting below the spawn.

An important thing to consider about Asteroid is that it has, and continues to give nearly instant respawns to someone if they're in the enemy base when they die. This worked out well enough when the level was significantly larger, but with the map cut down in size, attackers can get back to the enemy base quicker and more frequently now. This creates a problem outside of simply the map design, where a team that's on offense harshly bottles the defending team in their base, and it becomes incredibly difficult to break out. The one match I played on it, it got to 288-60ish, but the other team was able to swing the map in their favor, and I could hardly leave the base as a soldier, and would get sniped out in the open middle area as a scout since enemies were always around. I really would like the return of the lower path between the bases, but I think the respawn time bonus is something that needs to be tweaked as well.

with the adittion of the two side bridges in the center, the main bridge itself was rendered pointlesss. both as a landmark and as a route.

[B]New Asteroid[/B] Why? :suicide: I can see that the main issue of the map being too large and easy to defend, but at the same time too easy to bypass has been your main focus of the revamp, but you've just made it worse. By narrowing down the number of routes, you've essentially created 2fort again but with even less options to get in the base. Just because the teleporter was a bad idea doesn't mean that an alternative like a skybridge with a conveyor belt wouldn't work, enabling people to avoid all conflicts while still being able to see what was going on in the base and if help was needed or not. This new version truly is 2fort v2, what with the few entrances and long and tedious push until we actually reach some damn robots. One of the reasons why I liked the old Asteroid is because the objective was scattered around the base, so I could either stay relatively close to the no-man's land and just destroy the A robots or sneak/push right in and take down C robots or the reactor. Now we have all the robots a few seconds away from the enemy spawn. The only thing I like about the new Asteroid is the new water flank, but even that's not too good because you have to get past the bridge and into the enemy base before it can even be used. I would actually like it if the water lead straight to the reactor, giving us another vent-ish route to get in and out of. Being able to bypass heavily defended areas is NOT a bad thing, nor should it be required to have so many pushes in such a gamemode. We need a larger map and more ways to avoid areas of conflict [I]throughout the entire map[/I]. Think about it this way, a lone class could easily get to the core or the robots this way, but if an entire team were to try and sneak through, not only would it be redundant because you only need one guy to take the core/destroy robots and maybe 1-2 more to protect/help him, but any more and you're just trying to start a major fight near the enemy's spawn in an area that's hard as hell to escape AND there's nobody doing other productive stuff in the meantime, whereas if 1-2 guys snuck in and the rest of the team pushed through the chokes, your team has some really high odds of coming out ahead. I'd also suggest removing the invincibility on robots deeper in the base when the A robots haven't been destroyed. Maybe give them damage resistance, but not flat out invincibility. TL;DR Get a size mix between this and the original, spread out the robots more and give us some decent flanks. Also, do the robots say "Error, F not bound"?

I'm just going to go with Kierany's rant. I, frankly, am to pissed about the new asteroid. It's been made so trying to set up a defense after your sentry first falls is just an effort in futility. The loss of the A/B doors have made it just an open invitation to get rectally raped at your spawn cause soldiers 2 hop it across in massive groups and just stand outside your doors.

[QUOTE=Kierany9;45426764][B]New Asteroid[/B] Also, do the robots say "Error, F not bound"?[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure they say "Error: path not found".