[QUOTE=Timebomb757;19183221]This basicly sums up my arguments in a more neatly organized form. A+.[/QUOTE]
Thank you.
Also, forgot to note: The sandman actually does a fairly good job against the charges, since the demo moves in a straight line towards you. The FaN also is a great neutralizer.
Let's take a soldier for example:
1) Spot a demoman that is looking funny at you
2) Pull shotgun out
3) Wait till he charges at you
4) Take a few steps sideways
5) While doing so, shoot him with the shotgun
6) He's dead now
I kill at leas 80% of all the demoman that are using the cargin' targe. It's that easy
[QUOTE=Noob_Reaper;19183259]I try, believe me. But, as I said, he fucking grenade launchers me.[/QUOTE]
Maybe he's just one of those annoying people who can hit with a nade no matter where you are. I often rage because of those.
[QUOTE=rosthouse;19183290]Let's take a soldier for example:
1) Spot a demoman that is looking funny at you
2) Pull shotgun out
3) Wait till he charges at you
4) Take a few steps sideways
5) While doing so, shoot him with the shotgun
6) He's dead now
I kill at leas 80% of all the demoman that are using the cargin' targe. It's that easy[/QUOTE]
Are you kidding? 210 HP takes so many shotgun shells to whittle down, whilst he can just maul your ass with the grenade launcher.
[editline]11:05PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Boomersocks;19183321]Maybe he's just one of those annoying people who can hit with a nade no matter where you are. I often rage because of those.[/QUOTE]
It really seems like everyone does this to me, even when I'm strafing in a very fast class (scout, pyro)
I agree somewhat, we need a nerf, but seriously, any skilled player can DODGE a charge.
[QUOTE=Timebomb757;19183289]Also, forgot to note: The sandman actually does a fairly good job against the charges, since the demo moves in a straight line towards you. The FaN also is a great neutralizer.[/QUOTE]
FAN and natascha are, but noone really uses them except for a few people. Sandman is useless nowadays, it's been nerfed into oblivion.
[quote][url=http://tf2wiki.net/wiki/Eyelander]Eyelander Damage[/url]
Base: 65 (59 to 72 damage)
Mini-Crit: 88
Critical Hit: 195 (only when made as part of a Targe charge, or Kritzkrieg)[/quote]
[quote][url=http://tf2wiki.net/wiki/Bottle]Bottle Damage[/url]
Base: 65 (59 to 72 damage)
Mini-Crit: 88
Critical Hit: 195[/quote]
195. The only class you can one hit with the Eyelander is the soldier, and the only way this is possible is because of the 25 damage you can get if you hit an enemy with the shield at the end of your charge (once it starts full crits on the sword).
[QUOTE=Noob_Reaper;19183331]Are you kidding? 210 HP takes so many shotgun shells to whittle down, whilst he can just maul your ass with the grenade launcher.
[editline]11:05PM[/editline]
It really seems like everyone does this to me, even when I'm strafing in a very fast class (scout, pyro)[/QUOTE]
If the demoman can land every nade he shoots on you he deserves the kill, and you're sucking because you can't kill a demoman who's meleeing.
[QUOTE=AshtonArdoin;19183349]I agree somewhat, we need a nerf, but seriously, any skilled player can DODGE a charge.[/QUOTE]
The point isn't JUST the charge, EVERYTHIGN about him is better now.
I also have a bone to pick with the soldier update, being direct hit 1hits any non-hardy class (pyro, soldier, heavy) and a crit 1hits anything, and the fucking equalizer has NO setback. It's a direct upgrade to the shovel.
In most of the situations you present, you make it seem like you are 1v1ing the demoman. You should not do this, the targe and eyelander makes the Demoman a very VERY strong foe to fight solo, especially in close quarters. You need to work as a team to take him down, as you would with a Heavy or a sniper.
This is, after all, TEAM Fortress 2.
[QUOTE=Noob_Reaper;19183400]the fucking equalizer has NO setback. It's a direct upgrade to the shovel.[/QUOTE]
Except for you have to be relatively hurt for it to be any good at all?
[QUOTE=rofflewoffles;19183377]If the demoman can land every nade he shoots on you he deserves the kill, and you're sucking because you can't kill a demoman who's meleeing.[/QUOTE]
And I don't, even though I can land every flaregun shot, shotgun shell, and/or flame particle effect? Great logic, Mr. Rofflewaffles.
Uh, it wouldn't be a problem if he wasn't faster than a scout by about two times during his charge, and STILL faster than a scout without it, WHILST having 210 health and onehitting with his melee weapon.
[QUOTE=Noob_Reaper;19183367]FAN and natascha are, but noone really uses them except for a few people. Sandman is useless nowadays, it's been nerfed into oblivion.[/QUOTE]
Then maybe YOU should start using them eh?
[QUOTE=biodude94566;19183413]Except for you have to be relatively hurt for it to be any good at all?[/QUOTE]
No, you don't. The full heal equalizer does the same dmg as shovel, try it.
[editline]11:10PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Timebomb757;19183435]Then maybe YOU should start using them eh?[/QUOTE]
Why should I confine myself to one or two classes I don't enjoy using because there's an overpowered demoman about?
[QUOTE=Noob_Reaper;19183441]No, you don't. The full heal equalizer does the same dmg as shovel, try it.[/QUOTE]
What the hell are you talking about? It does HALF damage when you are fully healed.
[QUOTE=Timebomb757;19183403]In most of the situations you present, you make it seem like you are 1v1ing the demoman. You should not do this, the targe and eyelander makes the Demoman a very VERY strong foe to fight solo, especially in close quarters. You need to work as a team to take him down, as you would with a Heavy or a sniper.
This is, after all, TEAM Fortress 2.[/QUOTE]
But, he DOESN'T need to work as a team! He becomes a 1 man solo machine fucking damage tank.
Think about the solly, Compared to the Demoman the Soldier is pretty much invincible with his Direct hit, and his equalizer can win against the Demomans Eyelander.
[QUOTE=Noob_Reaper;19183441]No, you don't. The full heal equalizer does the same dmg as shovel, try it.[/QUOTE]
Actually it's tied for least powerful weapon with the non backstab knife at full health.
[QUOTE=Timebomb757;19183461]What the hell are you talking about? It does HALF damage when you are fully healed.[/QUOTE]
It doesn't say anything about that on the equalizer's description, and even if it's true, did anyone here actually use the shovel? The equalizer makes you move as fast as a scout and 1hit shit, the shovel did like 100 dmg with a slow ROF.
[QUOTE=Noob_Reaper;19183431]And I don't, even though I can land every flaregun shot, shotgun shell, and/or flame particle effect? Great logic, Mr. Rofflewaffles.
Uh, it wouldn't be a problem if he wasn't faster than a scout by about two times during his charge, and STILL faster than a scout without it, WHILST having 210 health and onehitting with his melee weapon.[/QUOTE]
The only way he can one hit you with the melee weapon is if he gets both the Targe's bash for 25 damage [b]and[/b] the full crit off the sword swing. This can take out any class with 220 health or less. So you cannot one shot a heavy with the Eyelander unless he has taken 80 damage already.
[QUOTE=Noob_Reaper;19183441]No, you don't. The full heal equalizer does the same dmg as shovel, try it[/QUOTE]
TF2 wiki says otherwise.
[QUOTE=Noob_Reaper;19183476]But, he DOESN'T need to work as a team! He becomes a 1 man solo machine fucking damage tank.[/QUOTE]
But you can lure the poor charger to your team's sticky trap or just to some of your teammates, and look at his hard-earned killing spree go to waste when he get's raped by the rest of your team. If you can't beat him with the easy-to-play-low-skill-ceiling class, get other people to help you.
[QUOTE=Noob_Reaper;19183476]But, he DOESN'T need to work as a team! He becomes a 1 man solo machine fucking damage tank.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, against one person. If you have a teammate, his 210 HP doesnt mean squat.
A spy can one-hit you from behind of you are alone and win, why dont you bitch about that?
[QUOTE=Noob_Reaper;19183502]It doesn't say anything about that on the equalizer's description, and even if it's true, did anyone here actually use the shovel? The equalizer makes you move as fast as a scout and 1hit shit, the shovel did like 100 dmg with a slow ROF.[/QUOTE]
[quote]Shovel Damage
Base: 65 (59 to 72 damage)
Mini-Crit: 88
Critical Hit: 195[/quote]
[quote]Equalizer Damage scale:
[img]http://tf2wiki.net/w/images/f/f9/Equalizerdamagespeed.PNG[/img][/quote]
You sir, are wrong.
[QUOTE=Noob_Reaper;19183502] The equalizer makes you move as fast as a scout and 1hit shit[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but you have to have around 30 HP for that to work, making it obscenely easy to kill a soldier under those condtions.
ITT: Hey guys I suck at killing the easiest target, and everyone else can. So I think Valve should nerf the demoman.
No. It is fine as is.
[QUOTE=Sgt.Kiddles;19183581]ITT: Hey guys I suck at killing the easiest target, and everyone else can. So I think Valve should nerf the demoman.
No. It is fine as is.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much this.
[QUOTE=Timebomb757;19183542]Yeah, against one person. If you have a teammate, his 210 HP doesnt mean squat.
A spy can one-hit you from behind of you are alone and win, why dont you bitch about that?[/QUOTE]
Because spies are easy to kill and do not have the equivalent of 600 health against any non-bullet throwing class.
[QUOTE=Noob_Reaper;19183502]It doesn't say anything about that on the equalizer's description, and even if it's true, did anyone here actually use the shovel? The equalizer makes you move as fast as a scout and 1hit shit, the shovel did like 100 dmg with a slow ROF.[/QUOTE]
Christ man, fact check before you spout this bullshit.
No seriously, I'm getting sick of OMG NERF THIS NAOW IT KILLD ME TOO MUCH threads.
There's like, a new one [b]every day.[/b]
Go [url=http://tf2wiki.net/wiki/Shovel]HERE[/url] and [url=http://tf2wiki.net/wiki/Equalizer]HERE[/url], read up, and then keep doing your repetitive argument.
[QUOTE=rofflewoffles;19183540]But you can lure the poor charger to your team's sticky trap or just to some of your teammates, and look at his hard-earned killing spree go to waste when he get's raped by the rest of your team. If you can't beat him with the easy-to-play-low-skill-ceiling class, get other people to help you.[/QUOTE]
Low skill ceiling? Ahaha, hope you're a troll. Pyro has a lot more to do than w+m1 if you're any good with him.
[editline]11:18PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=CrazyBaconLegs;19183605]Christ man, fact check before you spout this bullshit.
No seriously, I'm getting sick of OMG NERF THIS NAOW IT KILLD ME TOO MUCH threads.
There's like, a new one [b]every day.[/b]
Go [url=http://tf2wiki.net/wiki/Shovel]HERE[/url] and [url=http://tf2wiki.net/wiki/Equalizer]HERE[/url], read up, and then keep doing your repetitive argument.[/QUOTE]
Uh, what about the links? They just reaffirmed my argument.
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