The demoman is absolutely invincible now. - Games

Why not just stop complaining and uninstall the game if you're that bothered about it?

[QUOTE=biodude94566;19184300]Well, let's refute the point of it being OP: You have what is essentially a <40 health scout with a buffed bat. He has to be within melee range of you to do any damage. At range, it's piss-easy to deal with him. If you let him get inside melee range, or are unable to deal with him before he gets in melee range, you have every right to be killed. It's like dying to a backstab - you deserve the death because you aren't paying enough attention to your surroundings or just plain suck.[/QUOTE] [b]My point is that it is more effective and practical than the shovel.[/b] If injured to this point, it allows you to retreat very quickly and kill unaware enemies in your way. A shovel can not do this.

[QUOTE=Noob_Reaper;19184304]Yeah, Valve listened to the players on the Sandman and look what happened.[/QUOTE] That has nothing to do with his point. If pyros are so awesome and scale so well with skill, why aren't they played in competetive matches?

[QUOTE=Noob_Reaper;19184304]Yeah, Valve listened to the players on the Sandman and look what happened.[/QUOTE] What happened? Was it overused before the nerf(s?) and is now underused? That only backs up my argument. The players noticed how good it was, used it, others complained, Valve nerfed it and now players have noticed that it's completely useless and therefore do not use it.

[QUOTE=Noob_Reaper;19184327][b]My point is that it is more effective and practical than the shovel.[/b] If injured to this point, it allows you to retreat very quickly and kill unaware enemies in your way. A shovel can not do this.[/QUOTE] If you're injured to that point and are retreating, you likely have enemies on your tail - all of whom can SHOOT YOU AND KILL YOU. The Equalizer is a high-risk, high-reward weapon, if you can use it correctly. It's fine as is. [editline]03:50PM[/editline] [QUOTE=ThePuska;19184371]What happened? Was it overused before the nerf(s?) and is now underused? That only backs up my argument. The players noticed how good it was, used it, others complained, Valve nerfed it and now players have noticed that it's completely useless and therefore do not use it.[/QUOTE] What happened is everyone complained about the stun, so Valve removed the ability to stun ubers. They kept complaining, so Valve re-added the ability to double-jump and took the scout's health down to 25. People complained STILL, and Valve recently changed the way it stuns.

[QUOTE=Noob_Reaper;19184016] And? The fact that you can move as fast as the fastest class AND do massive dmg should be proof enough of it being OP.[/QUOTE] The reason its not OP is because when in this state, nearly all of the classes can kill you with one hit.

The Demo is only invincible, because everyone just play Pyro Demo Solly these times, if he gets shot by a Shotgun, he will surely die.

[QUOTE=biodude94566;19184384]If you're injured to that point and are retreating, you likely have enemies on your tail - all of whom can SHOOT YOU AND KILL YOU. The Equalizer is a high-risk, high-reward weapon, if you can use it correctly. It's fine as is. [editline]03:50PM[/editline] What happened is everyone complained about the stun, so Valve removed the ability to stun ubers. They kept complaining, so Valve re-added the ability to double-jump and took the scout's health down to 25. People complained STILL, and Valve recently changed the way it stuns.[/QUOTE] To your point on the Equalizer, not if you have teammates around or know WHEN to retreat. To the Sandman bit, what about it? I gave an example of how the community DOESN'T always know best.

[QUOTE=biodude94566;19184384]What happened is everyone complained about the stun, so Valve removed the ability to stun ubers. They kept complaining, so Valve re-added the ability to double-jump and took the scout's health down to 25. People complained STILL, and Valve recently changed the way it stuns.[/QUOTE] All right I can't see how that would serve as an example to any argument, mine or his, but whatever

[QUOTE=Laurn;19184465]The Demo is only invincible, because everyone just play Pyro Demo Solly these times, if he gets shot by a Shotgun, he will surely die.[/QUOTE] Not in my experience. If you're playing demo and see the scout/whatever, you ca neasily pluck it out of the air with a sticky/grenade. [editline]11:53PM[/editline] [QUOTE=ThePuska;19184371]What happened? Was it overused before the nerf(s?) and is now underused? That only backs up my argument. The players noticed how good it was, used it, others complained, Valve nerfed it and now players have noticed that it's completely useless and therefore do not use it.[/QUOTE] I'm saying that the players cried about it when it was balanced (and even nerfed a bit) and it;s USELESS now.

[QUOTE=Noob_Reaper;19184487]I'm saying that the players cried about it when it was balanced (and even nerfed a bit) and it;s USELESS now.[/QUOTE] Has nothing to do with how players find the most efficient method of playing.

[QUOTE=Noob_Reaper;19184468]To your point on the Equalizer, not if you have teammates around or know WHEN to retreat. To the Sandman bit, what about it? I gave an example of how the community DOESN'T always know best.[/QUOTE] So you're saying it's OP for being a good weapon in a skilled player's hands. Alright, so let's nerf every other weapon in the game, especially the airblast, FaN, knife, etc.,.

[QUOTE=Noob_Reaper;19184487]Not in my experience. If you're playing demo and see the scout/whatever, you ca neasily pluck it out of the air with a sticky/grenade.[/QUOTE] You're playing against some really fucking stupid players if you can do this every time and with ease.

Okay so this is his basic argument in realistic terms [quote=Noob_Reaper]I suck at this game. Any class that kills me is overpowered and overpowered and invincible because i say it is and refused evidence to prove otherwise[/quote] It's not overpowered. The items are well balanced, because you can't side step and can't aim doesn't mean it's overpowered and needs to be nerfed.

[QUOTE=Noob_Reaper;19182990]Think I'm lying about this shit? Go try demoman for an hour, it's so easy it's unfun.[/QUOTE] Are you high or something. Do you even know how easy it is to get around a Scottish Resistance trap? It's got about as much of a blast area as the DH. [editline]07:03PM[/editline] And you're obviously playing the other classes wrong is you can't kill a demoman.

You play mostly Pyro and you can't even kill a melée player in you own element? The Pyro is the close-quarter master! Sword + Shield Demomen are easy food for your axetinguisher! If you can't out close-range someone when you are the close-range king, maybe you really, really suck.

[QUOTE=Noob_Reaper;19182990]I'm not kidding. Let's assume you have all the unlocks and are using them, with 4 heads taken. You can: Sticky jump midair, move faster than scout, have 210 health, take 70% less explosive/fire dmg, charge an enemy MUCH faster than a scout, onehit enemies with a melee weapon which has a range of all the way across fov.[/QUOTE]There's a skill tree that lets me dual-wield secondary weapons? Hot [i]damn[/i].

[QUOTE=biodude94566;19184384]What happened is everyone complained about the stun, so Valve removed the ability to stun ubers. They kept complaining, so Valve re-added the ability to double-jump and took the scout's health down to 25. People complained STILL, and Valve recently changed the way it stuns.[/QUOTE] I'm going off topic in this oh-so-wonderful thread (:jerkbag:) but is it just me or has stunning always been broken? I've stunned heavies -- this is with the original stun, no movement -- and they could still fire their minigun as long as they kept it spinning. Earlier today I was playing scout and a pyro who I had stunned managed to ignite me while he was running around.

Only the rival classes Sniper and Spy can one hit Heavies. If he isn't overhealed then you need a critsplosive.

Get your 'sister' and send her to the employees at valve. That'll be the only way to convince them to nerf the demo.

OK, it's fucking midnight, and I'm waiting for my kid to get to sleep. In the meanwhile, I read this laughable thread. Jesus man... let's break this down. Any scout worth his salt will use his high speed (that is always higher than a demo can reach, bar the charge), double jump and hitscans to kill the demo. If you get killed when scout, you're a bad scout, NOT because of an OP demo. That or the map you play, but maps like 2Fort or Dustbowl were never decent scout maps to begin with. A soldier can juggle him, bring out a shotty, use his equaliser to knock him down a peg, or use it to retreat. Buff banner soldiers get it worse, a corresponding disadvantage to this (once balanced) unlock. A pyro will flame, then puff and sting, or use a combination of airblast and shotty fire to kill him. Backburner pyros... well, who gives a shit about them, they're gimping themselves anyway. Also, W+Mouse1 pyros don't count here. Other demos will either have the same combo for an even battle or the default loadout/ SR loadout. Tricky situation, due to explosive resistance. The only time you could claim it was OP. Heavy tears them down. If you think otherwise you're a bad heavy, it's that simple. Engineers should be happy. No sticky launcher= field day. if you're caught alone by one, you're dead either way. Medics are always butt fucked by combat classes. Targe is just another way to die. Snipers attack from range, get fucked at close range. Dur. Spies, again, have problems in direct engagement, though not as much as snipers. Plus backstabs. Demos with the targe and shield are not OP. They are OP due to the poor knowledge with how to combat them, and that's the important point. Remember how lethal the spy was, when TF2 came out? Now look at him- much more dangerous to play. Same will happen to these melee demos. Merry Christmas.

[QUOTE=Gunner th;19184700]Okay so this is his basic argument in realistic terms It's not overpowered. The items are well balanced, because you can't side step and can't aim doesn't mean it's overpowered and needs to be nerfed.[/QUOTE] No, the basic argument is that the demoman can now solo any class except FAN scouts easily. To the avove, if you puff and sting he'll just start hurling grenades at you close range (2shot)

[QUOTE=rofflewoffles;19183540]But you can lure the poor charger to your team's sticky trap or just to some of your teammates, and look at his hard-earned killing spree go to waste when he get's raped by the rest of your team. If you can't beat him with the[b] easy-to-play-low-skill-ceiling class[/b], get other people to help you.[/QUOTE] All classes have easy to pick up and play aspects. No classes have low skill ceilings

[QUOTE=Noob_Reaper;19185059]No, the basic argument is that the demoman can now solo any class except FAN scouts easily. To the avove, if you puff and sting he'll just start hurling grenades at you close range (2shot)[/QUOTE] Really? Because i have no problem killing Demo men using any of those as any class. Hell most are so stupid i've had them charge into taunt kills. The Demo is fine, get some skill then complain. It's not overpowered because you can't W M1 it. I play pyro quite a bit, sword wielding demo are my favorite, ignite then axetinguish.

[QUOTE=Noob_Reaper;19185059]if you puff and sting he'll just start hurling grenades at you close range (2shot)[/QUOTE] [i]Then fucking treat him like you would any other demo, you just have to fight a bit longer to come out on top.[/i]

[QUOTE=Gunner th;19185105]Really? Because i have no problem killing Demo men using any of those as any class. Hell most are so stupid i've had them charge into taunt kills. The Demo is fine, get some skill then complain. It's not overpowered because you can't W M1 it.[/QUOTE] You're just restating logical fallacy after logical fallacy. Go read the points I debunked earlier, I'm not saying them again. [editline]12:26AM[/editline] [QUOTE=biodude94566;19185135][i]Then fucking treat him like you would any other demo, you just have to fight a bit longer to come out on top.[/i][/QUOTE] 2.2X longer You'll be grenaded before you flame him, and I use flaregun [editline]12:27AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Gunner th;19185105]Really? Because i have no problem killing Demo men using any of those as any class. Hell most are so stupid i've had them charge into taunt kills. The Demo is fine, get some skill then complain. It's not overpowered because you can't W M1 it. I play pyro quite a bit, sword wielding demo are my favorite, ignite then axetinguish.[/QUOTE] The last mentioned tactic is the only way I can kill them (along with lucky flaregun hits when they're alight), but they usually spam nades at me before I can get an axe hit on em.

[QUOTE=Noob_Reaper;19185141]2.2X longer You'll be grenaded before you flame him, and I use flaregun [editline]12:27AM[/editline] The last mentioned tactic is the only way I can kill them (along with lucky flaregun hits when they're alight), but they usually spam nades at me before I can get an axe hit on em.[/QUOTE] Then you're just a bad pyro that's whining that you can't kill a demo.

[QUOTE=Noob_Reaper;19185141] 2.2X longer You'll be grenaded before you flame him, and I use flaregun[/QUOTE] Grenades are totally hitscan and not the slowest weapons in the game and can't be reflected by pyros.

[QUOTE=xpod1;19185197]Grenades are totally hitscan and not the slowest weapons in the game and can't be reflected by pyros.[/QUOTE] December 25th Team Fortress 2 Update- *The grenade launcher is now classified as a hitscan weapon. *The pyro's airblast ability has been removed from game.

[QUOTE=Gunner th;19185105]Really? Because i have no problem killing Demo men using any of those as any class. Hell most are so stupid i've had them charge into taunt kills. The Demo is fine, get some skill then complain. It's not overpowered because you can't W M1 it. I play pyro quite a bit, sword wielding demo are my favorite, ignite then axetinguish.[/QUOTE] This. This is a shit thread, and you just ignore half the bits of logic in here. Everything else is "BUT HE COULD DO THIS TO KILL ME IF I DO THAT" Which is... um, yeah. It's not just rock paper scissors, it actually kind of depends on skill who will win. If you can't kill targe demos for some incomprehensible reason, you're the odd one out. Everyone else in this thread seems to have no problems with them. Take from that what you will.