Team Fortress 2 Lore Discusssion: We make sense out of a hat-simulator - Games

I don't think I remember seeing this discussed. In retrospect, The Contract actually is pretty confusing lore-wise. Last time we saw Miss Pauling and Saxton Hale interact was in WAR. Back then [URL="http://www.teamfortress.com/war/saxtonhale/04.htm"]he knew her name and Helen was a valued customer. [/URL]Helen says [URL="http://www.teamfortress.com/war/administrator/05.htm"]"tell him money is no object."[/URL] Yet in The Contract, Saxton keeps talking about how she can't afford his prices and acting like he has better clients, when Helen is one of the most rich and powerful women in the world. She thinks nothing of bullying Soviet Astronauts and making vast plots to trick America out of Australium, and then admitting it right in front of a senate hearing. Considering how excited he was to talk to Helen back then, it seems odd that Miss Pauling gets the dirty horrible waiting room. Did the Administrator have massive budget cuts or something? There's been no canon proof of a falling out between Mann co and Helen, so while Saxton is plenty IC, it's strange to see him treat Helen and Miss Pauling that way. And does Saxton also hire out the mercenaries to do his dirty work as well as Helen? Because [URL="http://www.teamfortress.com/tf04_blood_in_the_water/#f=54"]in Blood In The Water[/URL], Scout says he works for Saxton and that he hired him, though most of the other canon (including The Contract) says he's just a seller. I suppose it's possible, given that Demoman canonically had three jobs. Maybe his other two were working for Saxton Hale, which would explain why he wasn't working in the beginning of Ring of Fired.

[QUOTE=LurkMoar;48264452]I don't think I remember seeing this discussed. In retrospect, The Contract actually is pretty confusing lore-wise. Last time we saw Miss Pauling and Saxton Hale interact was in WAR. Back then [URL="http://www.teamfortress.com/war/saxtonhale/04.htm"]he knew her name and Helen was a valued customer. [/URL]Helen says [URL="http://www.teamfortress.com/war/administrator/05.htm"]"tell him money is no object."[/URL] Yet in The Contract, Saxton keeps talking about how she can't afford his prices and acting like he has better clients, when Helen is one of the most rich and powerful women in the world. She thinks nothing of bullying Soviet Astronauts and making vast plots to trick America out of Australium, and then admitting it right in front of a senate hearing. Considering how excited he was to talk to Helen back then, it seems odd that Miss Pauling gets the dirty horrible waiting room. Did the Administrator have massive budget cuts or something? There's been no canon proof of a falling out between Mann co and Helen, so while Saxton is plenty IC, it's strange to see him treat Helen and Miss Pauling that way. And does Saxton also hire out the mercenaries to do his dirty work as well as Helen? Because [URL="http://www.teamfortress.com/tf04_blood_in_the_water/#f=54"]in Blood In The Water[/URL], Scout says he works for Saxton and that he hired him, though most of the other canon (including The Contract) says he's just a seller. I suppose it's possible, given that Demoman canonically had three jobs. Maybe his other two were working for Saxton Hale, which would explain why he wasn't working in the beginning of Ring of Fired.[/QUOTE] Contract looks a lot more non-canon with self-deprecating humor than as actual bits of lore. There are direct references to how the weapons Mann Co produces are dirt-cheap and ubiquitous, and how Saxton laughs and says "No" when asked if he'll provide [i]new[/i] ones. The parallels in reality with the TF team and the community seem pretty clear that they're taking jabs at themselves.

Hasn't it been mentioned several times in-game that Spytech/TF Industries has been going bankrupt, though? Maybe they had to cut back on what they could afford.

[QUOTE=Doctor Hunt;48265083]Hasn't it been mentioned several times in-game that Spytech/TF Industries has been going bankrupt, though? Maybe they had to cut back on what they could afford.[/QUOTE] Has it? I must've missed them. Can you pinpoint a source, so I can piece them together? I'm addicted to trying to make sense of the lore of this hat shooter.

[QUOTE=Makzu;48251955]So with the newest comic (Contract) Hale said that "he is fairly sure 4 of them cant read". So which 4 is it?[/QUOTE] It is "joke" about nationality. Saxton thinks that non-english persons can't speak English nor can't read(He actually knows,that they are able to learn English,but he chose to be an arse and false himself). He was talking about:Heavy,Spy,Medic and Pyro -classes,that are not from the english countries.

[QUOTE=LurkMoar;48265515]Has it? I must've missed them. Can you pinpoint a source, so I can piece them together? I'm addicted to trying to make sense of the lore of this hat shooter.[/QUOTE] The main thing I was going off of was the corkboard in Doomsday, but the fact that Sawmill's CTF variant has two abandoned Spytech bases also helps

[QUOTE=Damoman;46642861][img]http://i.imgur.com/ZT8nqvh.png[/img] See, when I first saw this image I thought the Scout was telling the absolute truth, It wasn't a real memory and it was just the writers calling back to one of the funniest moments in tf2 history. But then in the following issue the Heavy alludes very heavily to the Spy being the Scouts father. So, retrospectively, I would have to imagine that the above picture is true and the Scout is just trying to lie to himself about it. By that logic I'd have to imagine that the Spy knows all about the Scout being his son. Especially seeing how he is holding a guide on how to pass a dna test in the latest Halloween comic.[/QUOTE] Hey [url]http://pastebin.com/N9tHzzra[/url] [quote] MANNCO CONTRACT CALL-TO-FAX 1.54.45 YOU HAVE 1 NEW CALL MESSAGE-ID: <915PAULING> PROCESSING... ************ HEY, SPY. PAULING. I TOOK CARE OF THAT DNA TEST FOR YOU. YOU OWE ME ONE AND I'M CASHING IT IN. TAKE CARE OF THIS. <END TRANSCRIPT> [/quote] [sp]DEEPEST[/sp] [sp]LORE[/sp]

[QUOTE=LurkMoar;48264452][URL="http://www.teamfortress.com/tf04_blood_in_the_water/#f=54"]in Blood In The Water[/URL], Scout says he works for Saxton and that he hired him, though most of the other canon (including The Contract) says he's just a seller. I suppose it's possible, given that Demoman canonically had three jobs. Maybe his other two were working for Saxton Hale, which would explain why he wasn't working in the beginning of Ring of Fired.[/QUOTE] "Contract" happens during Gravel Wars, while "Blood in the Water" comes after MvM taking place, hence, Saxton hiring the mercs himself after Mann brothers' unfortunate death. I'm loving all of you taking simple silly dark humor, with all the dead body counts intimidating astronauts and Saxton being a general douchebag, as some solid historical evidence. It's even better than pointing out the "Expiration Date" point in timeline with a help of ScoutxPauling relationship progression as a barometer.

[QUOTE=Doctor Hunt;48266391]The main thing I was going off of was the corkboard in Doomsday, but the fact that Sawmill's CTF variant has two abandoned Spytech bases also helps[/QUOTE] OOh, thanks for that. I'll have to spend more time checking for hints in game. [editline]22nd July 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Psychopath12;48264494]Contract looks a lot more non-canon with self-deprecating humor than as actual bits of lore. There are direct references to how the weapons Mann Co produces are dirt-cheap and ubiquitous, and how Saxton laughs and says "No" when asked if he'll provide [i]new[/i] ones. The parallels in reality with the TF team and the community seem pretty clear that they're taking jabs at themselves.[/QUOTE] I wish they'd be more upfront about where stuff is in canon. Like Expiration Date which got released in the middle of Ring of Fired. Is it before ROF? After ROF? Completely unrelated to any continuity and a relic of a series which almost happened, but died from Valve time? Who knows? Though, the wiki said it was shortly before MVM. (I'm still pretty salty we never got that TF2 TV show.)

[QUOTE=nightlord;44765244]There is a problem with the respawn theory. We know there are 18 mercenaries ("18 perfect idiots" are mentioned by the Administrator: [url]http://www.teamfortress.com/pyromania/thepoopyjoefiles/04.html[/url]). If there were just 9 of them, it would make the WAR! update a bit pointless - in the comic it specifically mentions the BLU soldier and the RED demoman, which means the actual characters we know of are on a set team. Then there's things like the Demoman's voice line about almost joining the other team. It definitely doesn't seem like there are only 9 of them. Also, how would they know which is the real mercenary at the end of the day?[/QUOTE] if anything this could actually support the theory, it explains why every soldier and demoman says these things: They're all clones of the post-WAR! demo and soldier We now know that before the respawn system, Demoman was only on RED and Soldier was only on BLU

My point of view on the Re spawn theory You don't really play the original class after your first death it's really another merc who has almost have the original body,attribute and skills as the first one you used this comprehend to the fact that the game has many pre loadout sets to set your character to be specific to what you want.This would apply everytime you either change loadout or die and you can say there are 18 mercs divided in to 2 groups RED and BLU but what about the hypothetical GRN and YLW? this only means that the mercs are not just 18 but a continuous cycle of life and death .Another thing is the many worlds theory meaning every decision you make in the game(and in real life) affects everything after that, for example you're playing as Medic(or Arrayseven's main annihilator),there's a world where you win using The Stock, another world where you lose because of using the stock med gun,another where you win because of going aggressive and vice versa, meaning respawning is just another timeline far more late that the one you played before, respawning is just the game's way to show the play what may work and not.

[QUOTE=ikes;48266917]if anything this could actually support the theory, it explains why every soldier and demoman says these things: They're all clones of the post-WAR! demo and soldier We now know that before the respawn system, Demoman was only on RED and Soldier was only on BLU[/QUOTE] And how do we know that? The fact that only RED Demo and BLU Soldier became friends tells us more about the whole cloning business itself, rather than anything. Despite mercs obviously being clones of each other, there're slight differences between the ones on either team. REDs regularly contact with the outer world (families, friends, fried-chicken tramps) and they're are generally a bit more cranky, "livey" and they have been almost always winning at the beginning of their career. BLUs are more constrained and they seem to be a bit of a "light soda" version of RED (just compare two Soldiers; one is a psychotic US officer impersonator, the other is simply psychotic). And these differences also play along the style of their respective companies (Demolotion v.s. Building). RED are the originals, BLUs are the toned down clones. That's also your WAR! Update friendship explanation. RED Soldier was simply too fucked up for poor Tavish to get along with him from the very beginning.

if TF2 items are canon to TF2, then aperture science is a canon thing in TF2's universe. meaning, cave johnson, and [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPWs6ioNZoI"]cave johnson's alternate/parallel earths from alternate timelines[/URL] are also canon. CLEARLY TF2 exists within multiple parallel earths, or parallel timelines. each comic or story thread exists within its own slightly alternate timeline where only some things are "canon", and many details are different. every server you join is an alternate timeline with a parallel gravel wars. every hatch the gray bots blow up is an alternate hatch that may not have blown up in other timelines. all of these timelines are frozen in a set moment and repeat, infinitely. :sbhj:

[QUOTE=eugensiman;48268057]And how do we know that? The fact that only RED Demo and BLU Soldier became friends tells us more about the whole cloning business itself, rather than anything. Despite mercs obviously being clones of each other, there're slight differences between the ones on either team. REDs regularly contact with the outer world (families, friends, fried-chicken tramps) and they're are generally a bit more cranky, "livey" and they have been almost always winning at the beginning of their career. BLUs are more constrained and they seem to be a bit of a "light soda" version of RED (just compare two Soldiers; one is a psychotic US officer impersonator, the other is simply psychotic). And these differences also play along the style of their respective companies (Demolotion v.s. Building). RED are the originals, BLUs are the toned down clones. That's also your WAR! Update friendship explanation. RED Soldier was simply too fucked up for poor Tavish to get along with him from the very beginning.[/QUOTE] [URL="http://www.teamfortress.com/tf02_unhappy_returns/#f=38"]In Unhappy Returns, the RED team has BLU team's memories.[/URL] [editline]22nd July 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Annoyed Grunt;48266407]Hey [url]http://pastebin.com/N9tHzzra[/url] [sp]DEEPEST[/sp] [sp]LORE[/sp][/QUOTE] It shows up in the [URL="http://www.teamfortress.com/bloodmoney/#f=12"]last Halloween comic[/URL] as well. It also comes up just as it's established in Unhappy Returns and Expiration Date that Scout runs to Spy for help. That's a lot of what made me think it was legit long before the hints started dropping. Spy was already being set up as his father figure. [editline]22nd July 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=eugensiman;48266723]"Contract" happens during Gravel Wars, while "Blood in the Water" comes after MvM taking place, hence, Saxton hiring the mercs himself after Mann brothers' unfortunate death. I'm loving all of you taking simple silly dark humor, with all the dead body counts intimidating astronauts and Saxton being a general douchebag, as some solid historical evidence. It's even better than pointing out the "Expiration Date" point in timeline with a help of ScoutxPauling relationship progression as a barometer.[/QUOTE] Didn't Miss Pauling hire them for Helen, though? [URL="http://www.teamfortress.com/tf01_ring_of_fired/#f=61"]In Ring of Fired, she gets a note from Administrator saying to rebuild the team.[/URL] Saxton was busy interacting, [URL="http://www.teamfortress.com/tf03_cold_day_in_hell/#f=11"]and ultimately siding with Charles Darling[/URL]. I remember in MUS someone tracked down that there's a Darling in the Mann family tree, which likely wasn't a coincidence, and is going to come up when Darling plays his hand. Also noteworthy that as of [URL="http://www.teamfortress.com/tf04_blood_in_the_water/#f=54"]Blood In The Water,[/URL] Miss Pauling has actually become her own faction. She's working behind the Administrator's back, with Scout and Heavy as her agents. Heavy gets it, while Scout is too into her to notice much of anything. At the very least, she doesn't fully trust the Administrator, and is investigating her. Haha, no wonder everyone is so salty about the recent Miss Pauling news. How are they going to figure out what the hell Valve is doing with the lore without the Scoutpauling ruler?

[QUOTE=LurkMoar;48268805]Haha, no wonder everyone is so salty about the recent Miss Pauling news.[/QUOTE] i think people are a bit more salty that not only was it just a tweet and not something they could have written into the story if they cared enough about it, but it was also bundled with "the comic will be further delayed". also [URL="http://www.teamfortress.com/wizardcon/"]not mentioning you are looking for a same-sex on your personal ad[/URL] is considered bad form and will probably net you a lot of unwanted results.

[QUOTE=LurkMoar;48268805]Haha, no wonder everyone is so salty about the recent Miss Pauling news. How are they going to figure out what the hell Valve is doing with the lore without the Scoutpauling ruler?[/QUOTE] I think the info-drop that Jay did on Twitter is more tongue-in-cheek than anything. It has no actual bearing on the character's personality, she is who she is and that's not changed even with that information present. She's still a workaholic, and she's still rejecting Scout's advances. I think that's jokingly rationalizing the reuse of the manilla folder that was used in Meet the Spy. It's common practice in development to reuse assets to save space and time. The only hole left to fill was a [i]reason[/i], which could be diverted as something unrelated. Had that not been revealed prior to the update, people would have found it anyway, See: Uberchain. And people would have jumped to a similar conclusion. I personally disagree with the method of reveal, as it felt extremely out-of-place to reveal out of nowhere with no real context to it. Those kinds of character details are more aptly used with subtlety instead of blatantly. A few examples: Sniper is emotionally distant from his adoptive parents, Demoman is brash and extremely boisterous (when drunk at least), Scout is selfishly aggressive and in-your-face. Their personalities match their class abilities, but it's a subtle touch that makes them appropriate, it's not spelled out plain-as-day.

[QUOTE=LurkMoar;48268805][URL="http://www.teamfortress.com/tf02_unhappy_returns/#f=38"]In Unhappy Returns, the RED team has BLU team's memories.[/URL][/QUOTE] I believe these were messed up a bit with a whole RED'n'BLU institution going down after/during MvM. For the sake of a better merc with more experience to boot up, the last, original RED crop of mercs may have been given with BLU clones' memories as well. [QUOTE=LurkMoar;48268805]Didn't Miss Pauling hire them for Helen, though? [URL="http://www.teamfortress.com/tf01_ring_of_fired/#f=61"]In Ring of Fired, she gets a note from Administrator saying to rebuild the team.[/URL] Saxton was busy interacting, [URL="http://www.teamfortress.com/tf03_cold_day_in_hell/#f=11"]and ultimately siding with Charles Darling[/URL]. I remember in MUS someone tracked down that there's a Darling in the Mann family tree, which likely wasn't a coincidence, and is going to come up when Darling plays his hand.[/QUOTE] The chronological order of mercs' official employers is this: 1850s - 1972 (Gravel Wars) - Redmond and Blutarch Mann 1972 - 1973 (MvM) - Saxton Hale 1973 - ???? (post-MvM, Australium Hunt) - They are officialy unemployed by Gray, but they work for Pauling for the sake of battling against their common foe, helping eachother out, yadda-yadda-yadda. [QUOTE=LurkMoar;48268805]Also noteworthy that as of [URL="http://www.teamfortress.com/tf04_blood_in_the_water/#f=54"]Blood In The Water,[/URL] Miss Pauling has actually become her own faction. She's working behind the Administrator's back, with Scout and Heavy as her agents. Heavy gets it, while Scout is too into her to notice much of anything. At the very least, she doesn't fully trust the Administrator, and is investigating her.[/QUOTE] Oh yes, I love this new Pauling v.s. Administrator dynamic. Not only does it improve both characters, it also expands on this throughout-series feeling of something much grander going in at the background. With Administrator apparently being a daughter of Elizabeth (thus, possibly, Zephiniah's as well), everything else seems incredibly down-to-earth in comparison to two immortal bickering siblings fighting over the total world domination. With, possibly, their distant relative (who keeps those "zhooz" for some reason) trying to shoehorn in. [QUOTE=LurkMoar;48268805]Haha, no wonder everyone is so salty about the recent Miss Pauling news. How are they going to figure out what the hell Valve is doing with the lore without the Scoutpauling ruler?[/QUOTE] By listening to sensible things other characters say or looking at the hints that matter, for example. Let's take "Expiration Date". We know that the current crop of mercs got into Gravel Wars somewhere around 1967-1968, so when Medic says that "we use teleporters six times a day, times four years", he gives us a straight clue. The year 1971, the one, when Redmond and Blutarch were killed, and the one prior to MvM, also corresponds the whole situation - Pauling suddenly "sympathizes" only one team, the briefcase is not some pointless map objective, but some information incredibly valuable for Administrator herself, the war seems to go on, but with not as much of a control, as before, with no restricted areas to fight in, objectives, respawns, announcements and mercs actually having a risk to go to jail because of killing their own clones. Now that's EVIDENCE. Not "it's post-MvM, because she likes him now".

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;48269253]I think the info-drop that Jay did on Twitter is more tongue-in-cheek than anything. It has no actual bearing on the character's personality, she is who she is and that's not changed even with that information present. She's still a workaholic, and she's still rejecting Scout's advances. I think that's jokingly rationalizing the reuse of the manilla folder that was used in Meet the Spy. It's common practice in development to reuse assets to save space and time. The only hole left to fill was a [i]reason[/i], which could be diverted as something unrelated. Had that not been revealed prior to the update, people would have found it anyway, See: Uberchain. And people would have jumped to a similar conclusion. I personally disagree with the method of reveal, as it felt extremely out-of-place to reveal out of nowhere with no real context to it. Those kinds of character details are more aptly used with subtlety instead of blatantly. A few examples: Sniper is emotionally distant from his adoptive parents, Demoman is brash and extremely boisterous (when drunk at least), Scout is selfishly aggressive and in-your-face. Their personalities match their class abilities, but it's a subtle touch that makes them appropriate, it's not spelled out plain-as-day.[/QUOTE] With the reusing of game files and the fact that there's a line where she talks about "getting rid of that DNA test" I'm not sure the two are even connected. Would anyone had even made that joke if it hadn't come out after the Jay tweet? According to the MVM trailer and Meet The Spy, there probably aren't even any pictures left in the folder. [editline]22nd July 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=eugensiman;48269255]I believe these were messed up a bit with a whole RED'n'BLU institution going down after/during MvM. For the sake of a better merc with more experience to boot up, the last, original RED crop of mercs may have been given with BLU clones' memories as well. The chronological order of mercs' official employers is this: 1850s - 1972 (Gravel Wars) - Redmond and Blutarch Mann 1972 - 1973 (MvM) - Saxton Hale 1973 - ???? (post-MvM, Australium Hunt) - They are officialy unemployed by Gray, but they work for Pauling for the sake of battling against their common foe, helping eachother out, yadda-yadda-yadda. Oh yes, I love this new Pauling v.s. Administrator dynamic. Not only does it improve both characters, it also expands on this throughout-series feeling of something much grander going in at the background. With Administrator apparently being a daughter of Elizabeth (thus, possibly, Zephiniah's as well), everything else seems incredibly down-to-earth in comparison to two immortal bickering siblings fighting over the total world domination. With, possibly, their distant relative (who keeps those "zhooz" for some reason) trying to shoehorn in. By listening to sensible things other characters say or looking at the hints that matter, for example. Let's take "Expiration Date". We know that the current crop of mercs got into Gravel Wars somewhere around 1967-1968, so when Medic says that "we use teleporters six times a day, times four years", he gives us a straight clue. The year 1971, the one, when Redmond and Blutarch were killed, and the one prior to MvM, also corresponds the whole situation - Pauling suddenly "sympathizes" only one team, the briefcase is not some pointless map objective, but some information incredibly valuable for Administrator herself, the war seems to go on, but with not as much of a control, as before, with no restricted areas to fight in, objectives, respawns, announcements and mercs actually having a risk to go to jail because of killing their own clones. Now that's EVIDENCE. Not "it's post-MvM, because she likes him now".[/QUOTE] (facepalm) I can't believe I forgot about that part of MVM canon! I guess I got too distracted with post MVM canon that I totally had a brainfart. You're right, he worked for Saxton Hale during the early MVM years. That's what I get for not playing MVM for a while. Miss Pauling's plot is really interesting. There's a lot of parallels that she's very likely to be the next Administrator, and the thought of her going head to head with Administrator could be a very intriguing plot point, especially if she still has some lingering loyalty for Helen. It'd actually be a really neat game mode if Valve ever went there. Though I've heard that Valve doesn't intend to make game modes out of things in the comics (re: the TFC vs mercs for example) but people have also reported that Valve spoke out on saying that Spy and Scout weren't related, and they're obviously going through with that, whatever they said in the past. I can buy that memory sharing. While it was originally the RED and BLU Soldier and Demoman who were friends, RED Soldier and RED Demoman have also shown to be friends and sharing the conversations which harken back to the original pair of WAR. To say nothing of the fact that Merasmus has the same relationship with both RED and BLU Soldier. And RED Spy is having the same fatherhood issue with RED Scout when it was established that it was BLU Scout and RED Spy. So either Valve ditched the RED VS BLU are different dynamic halfway through, or it was all according to plan and some kind of sad clone plot going on. I was mostly joking in regards to that, re: the Scoutpauling ruler/barometer. Most people are salty about the Miss Pauling thing because 1) Expiration Date and The Spoils Of Love And War (as well as parts of Gun Mettle) established it as being very likely requited to a degree and 2) Scout's plot largely revolves around her at the moment. Revealing midway that she's gay essentially makes Scout's plot (other than his father plot) kind of boring, depressing and a waste of space that could've been easily used to develop other mercenaries. For example, we know that Expiration Date originally had other plots that were scrapped so that Scoutpauling became the main plot. That's gotta leave a bitter taste for someone who got to see Sniper/Demoman/Heavy/Medic/whoever else shafted in plot for a pair Valve intended to screw over from the get go. I don't think he was that serious either, considering the context of those tweets and him later agreeing that it would be forced and shoehorned. Plus, Makani has confirmed that Miss Pauling wasn't always 100% gay in her talks about stuff prior to this wank.

[QUOTE=LurkMoar;48269356] For example, we know that Expiration Date originally had other plots that were scrapped so that Scoutpauling became the main plot. That's gotta leave a bitter taste for someone who got to see Sniper/Demoman/Heavy/Medic/whoever else shafted in plot for a pair Valve intended to screw over from the get go. [/QUOTE] I'm aware only of some Heavy strawberry-related comic sequence cut in the final edit and of the fact that "Expiration Date" was originally intended to be the second (possibly, the October one?) episode of a TF2 TV Show, with first one explaining the universe as a whole. I'm curious, if we know what are the other scrapped plots then.

[QUOTE=eugensiman;48269980]I'm aware only of some Heavy strawberry-related comic sequence cut in the final edit and of the fact that "Expiration Date" was originally intended to be the second (possibly, the October one?) episode of a TF2 TV Show, with first one explaining the universe as a whole. I'm curious, if we know what are the other scrapped plots then.[/QUOTE] It was apparently funny enough for McVee to mention it specifically as a teaser when Expiration Date was just being posted. I can't recall anything specifically, [URL="http://pastebin.com/niwN5KfY"]but you're welcome to go through the original Expiration Date script leaks.[/URL] There was some really funny stuff that got cut there. They're easier to read if you put a character's name in and then filter through that. [URL="http://anoia.tumblr.com/post/91824374598/i-should-ask-whats-your-opinion-on-an"] Makani mentioned that an earlier possibility for Expiration Date had a whole lot unhappier ending for Scout.[/URL] Though the script leak shows that some lines that didn't make it were actually more romantic. "The stupidest brave thing" and "I like you too" (this one was a Scout line) for example. So apparently it went from "Scout is completely humiliated and fails entirely" to "more fluffy than the stuff you'd find on tumblr" to what it is now. I'd love to see the cut voice lines show up like other cut content has. (The WAR Soldier and Demoman lines, the longer version of the Meet The Scout, etc) Nathan did confirm in his livestream shortly after Expiration Date that a lot was deleted, so it was recorded as opposed to just being unrecorded scripts.

Bumping this just out of curiosity; If the Engineer has the Frontier Justice in Meet the Medic, then that means the events of Loose Canon would have had to happened before that, right?

Might as well drop a quick theory in here. Okay, so the whole RED vs BLU thing went on starting from the mid 1800s, right? That would mean, as far as we know in terms of canon, the green and yellow teams were never really involved with this conflict, even in TFC. Yes, yellow team was after the civilian for unknown reasons, but this could be assumed to be between them and someone else. Like, they were taking him out before green team(or someone else, who knows) could capture and use him. But aside from that, yellow has been mostly absent in Team Fortress and green has never even shown up at all. But knowing the Administrator, she would try and get everyone involved in the current conflict, and she certainly has the power to do so. So... why hasn't she? The only explanation is that yellow and green must be in a behind the scenes conflict, and somehow are able to maintain enough secrecy as to not catch the attention of anyone, including the Administrator. And now to the crazier, less likely part of this theory. Based on the TFC icons for yellow and green, green could be a cult of Cthulhu worshipers, and yellow a clan of paladins combating the dark forces of Cthulhu. I know, not much proof behind this, but I'm just spitballing this part out there to see if anyone else thinks it might actually make sense.

[QUOTE=Lazerlatte;48422499]-snip-[/QUOTE] but green and yellow aren't even canon, they're from TF2C

[QUOTE=Blackavar;48422837]but green and yellow aren't even canon, they're from TF2C[/QUOTE] GTFO sonny, us grown ups are talkin' Oh fine, here have a penny and go buy yourself a piece of candy. O-or err uh, what was it, didn't candy raise in price a.... a.... A NICKLE yep it's a nickle now ain't it go on youngin' go get you a candy No but seriously you obviously have not played Team Fortress Classic enough.

[QUOTE=Blackavar;48422837]but green and yellow aren't even canon, they're from TF2C[/QUOTE] He's saying since TFC was nade canon, then Yelliw and Green are technically canon. Then he got all sassy molassy about it.

Tf2s story was interesting, I wish that there was a lot more effort put into it as the inconsistencies are insane. Snipers alive in the halloween comic after rof, miss pauling works under saxton in the newest comic?? Saxton leaves the company though?

[QUOTE=Popularvote;48423129]He's saying since TFC was nade canon, then Yelliw and Green are technically canon. Then he got all sassy molassy about it.[/QUOTE] I was just joking around :/

[QUOTE=Cornish;48423299]Tf2s story was interesting, I wish that there was a lot more effort put into it as the inconsistencies are insane. Snipers alive in the halloween comic after rof, miss pauling works under saxton in the newest comic?? Saxton leaves the company though?[/QUOTE] Gun Mettle happens before the events of the ongoing comic, and Halloween canon is debatable.

I'm annoyed by items which give Heavy clothing related to the Bolsheviks or Red Army, or even items named with "red army" or "bolshevik". His father was counter-revolutionary, and after his execution his family was sent to a gulag, presumably run by the Bolsheviks. It was implied he took part in torturing and killing the guards after the prisoners broke out... clothing relating to the White Army or the Tsar would make more sense as something he'd wear or be described as.

cross post from MUS [QUOTE=cha0s;48601158]someone on reddit came up with a theory involving the coordinates pauling gave to the tfc spy(its reddit, so take this with a grain of salt): [url]https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/3j5i12/huge_detail_about_tfc5_old_wounds/[/url][/QUOTE] edit: we were also talking about respawing being canon on MUS and i mentioned: if respawing isn't canon, why is it shown that people DIED during the gravel wars(such as the blu team in meet the spy)?