Major Update Speculation XXVI: Much Ado About Nothing - Games

[QUOTE=redBadger;48123660]Am I the only one who thinks snowplow sucks. It's so confusing[/QUOTE] Funny how a lot of people think this when almost a year ago people were pissed it wasn't official.

[QUOTE=TectoImprov;48123967]Funny how a lot of people think this when almost a year ago people were pissed it wasn't official.[/QUOTE] People were pissed because Valve pulled it without warning and were 100% silent to the community.

[QUOTE=redBadger;48123660]Am I the only one who thinks snowplow sucks. It's so confusing[/QUOTE] It's Attack/Defense CP but with a different kind of timer It is literally no different than regular A/D CP in terms of gameplay and layout. The only difference is that the attacking team has to capture all of the points before the train gets to 0%, which as far as I know is set on a specific time. So it's basically no different.

[QUOTE=TectoImprov;48123967]Funny how a lot of people think this when almost a year ago people were pissed it wasn't official.[/QUOTE] The game mode is confusing at first but it's ok once you get used to it. What I don't understand now is why the map itself is so.. weird to navigate. How did it ended up like this if the map makers were working "closely" with Valve on it? It feels like it's a Payload map, but it's not. If the map was developed as a normal CP or Payload map from the start I bet it would've ended up much more fun and less confusing.

it really should of just been a train payload map [editline]4th July 2015[/editline] The way the train moves is awkward and janky It just seems like a small repetitive map

I like all of the new maps except Suijin...Don't get me wrong, it's absolutely gorgeous and I hope future maps will try and use that style. The issue I have is that extremely long stretch of nothing which makes it sniper heaven. That really sucks.

Snowplows litteraly atk/def with an added element, its seriously not that hard

[QUOTE=Keychain;48124032]It's Attack/Defense CP but with a different kind of timer[/QUOTE] Then there's no reason to have a different timer then. It's a remnant of the old idea of a train-focused mode that YM slated with junctions and traps. That got shot down relatively early because the train dictated the game flow when that should primarily be in the player's control, but the train still tried to be the star of the show. With the change to the mode to be more in line with A/D, the train is relegated to being literally nothing more than a decoration, a prop, a set-piece to try to give context to why we're capturing these control points. I get that it's based around End of the Line, which is about a runaway train, but the map does a horrible job of putting that point across. It's not that same runaway train if it comes to a stop at a wooden barricade. It lacks the urgency and impact that it does in the short. The ultimate stop of that train was the [i]climax[/i]. A good comparison would be the tech and weapons that the two teams are fighting over that they mostly gloss over. They're completely irrelevant to the gameplay as they should be. It's not until the round is finalized with results that the aftermath is set into motion, it's an eerie sort of dread to not be wary of the damage that the mercs are directly responsible for. But they don't care because they got their paycheck and they won, a similar sort of feeling is imbued in the players. They care for playing the FPS and to win, not to do political battles or territory disputes. If I had to make any changes to the map itself to improve it without changing the gameplay or layout, it'd be to axe the train focus entirely and make it a straight-up Attack/Defense map. No nonsense, no clutter, just A/D. This would ensure that players would [i]immediately[/i] understand that it's not a different mode, as it stands there really are a handful of ambiguous details that serve no real purpose other than needless obfuscation. There's a difference between players learning a layout and recognizing terrain than it is to have players feel out a game mode; TF2's mode are prided around being presented rather minimalistic and simple to avoid excess. The places where the train used to reside would be covered in a mound of explosives so players can still use that slight height advantage or cover, capturing the point would remove the explosive barricade from the tracks and the map would progress as per usual. The train only making an appearance when BLU clears the tracks of all obstacles (zipping through to the next area/blowing up at the final destination) or when time expires and the train smashes in a spectacular explosion against the first barricade in the way. That's a pipe dream at this point, as I'm sure that they're too fatigued to want to keep caring about the map, it's been well over a year.

How do I improve performance after the new update?

I got lucky and unboxed the rarest skin! [IMG]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/620718327576403715/DFE3A34AC18F9B94614B735FCCF8443E3D410801/[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;48124119] If I had to make any changes to the map itself to improve it without changing the gameplay or layout, it'd be to axe the train focus entirely and make it a straight-up Attack/Defense map.[/QUOTE] I would have a/d with the train and the control points, but between the cps the train is off the map. Upon capturing a point, the trap moves out of the way and time is added, the train eventually careens through that point and so on. If the timer runs down, the train comes through regardless and smashes into the obstacle.

[video=youtube;IUFK4E7NPmg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUFK4E7NPmg[/video] new exploit xD

I don't have any problem with the train being on the map. Just remove the health meter and put a normal timer in its place.

[QUOTE=kamuixmod;48124291][video=youtube;IUFK4E7NPmg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUFK4E7NPmg[/video] new exploit xD[/QUOTE] As far as post update exploits are this is fairly tame

I genuinely don't understand people's problem with it. You just have to prevent the traps from doing too much damage, it is LITERALLY A TIMER, it takes maybe two rounds to figure out.

[QUOTE=Zeos;48124318]I genuinely don't understand people's problem with it. You just have to prevent the traps from doing too much damage, it is LITERALLY A TIMER, it takes maybe two rounds to figure out.[/QUOTE] Then why give the player less information about the time remaining in the round? Showing the amount of time left before the amount of time left in the round goes down is pointlessly convoluted. Just show the amount of time left in the round.

[QUOTE=Zeos;48124318]I genuinely don't understand people's problem with it. You just have to prevent the traps from doing too much damage, it is LITERALLY A TIMER, it takes maybe two rounds to figure out.[/QUOTE] The fact that it takes longer than a quick glance at the HUD is in itself a problem. A heathbar implies that there is a thing to be damaged. The game explicitly highlights the train, the very same thing that has the aforementioned healthbar. It then follows that the logical course of action is to use <damaging weapon> on <thing to be damaged>. This is something that's been trained into our minds for years and makes sense to anyone who has ever pondered what happens when a weapon or other damaging force gets applied to a creature or structure that can be killed or destroyed, nothing in TF2 has broken that mold either. There's no reason to believe it should be otherwise. Yes, the mode itself is very straightforward. But it's only in retrospect that it is straightforward, everyone here is under the bias of having known what's going on prior. Remove yourself from that bias and understand just how needlessly-cluttered it is to someone who has no prior experiences with the map or mode. Understand that things are presented differently because they [i]are[/i] different, not for the sake of [i]looking[/i] different. When that distinction is blurred, issues arise.

They should just replace the percentage in the train HUD with a countdown instead.

what if the train just wasn't highlighted on snowplow? players would stop running at it

I think the TF2 team took too much inspiration from the CS: GO team. :v: [video=youtube_share;ER8m-m142RA]http://youtu.be/ER8m-m142RA[/video]

[QUOTE=Poopy Joe;48124420]I think the CS: GO team made this update[/QUOTE] FTFY

[QUOTE=Poopy Joe;48124420]I think the TF2 team took too much inspiration from the CS: GO team. :v: [video=youtube_share;ER8m-m142RA]http://youtu.be/ER8m-m142RA[/video][/QUOTE] Nope.It's not an inspiration but an easter egg as in the wiki it was said it's first heard and was not taken out by inspiration

[QUOTE=kariko;48124087]I like all of the new maps except Suijin...Don't get me wrong, it's absolutely gorgeous and I hope future maps will try and use that style. The issue I have is that extremely long stretch of nothing which makes it sniper heaven. That really sucks.[/QUOTE] I shouldn't be getting killed by Snipers who are literally chilling right in front of their spawn.

[QUOTE=JohnMegaman72;48124635]Nope.It's not an inspiration but an easter egg as in the wiki it was said it's first heard and was not taken out by inspiration[/QUOTE] Wiki is great and all but it's not run by Valve. There's always info there that is made up because it sounds true.

A few things I absolutely hate about Snowplow: - The entire gimmick of the train being the timer. This includes the train HUD and damage system that could easily be a regular timer e.g. Mountainlab/Mann Manor. - The train using the outline when it's not the capture objective - THE ENEMY IS ABOUT TO DEPLOY THE DEVICE (99% of people don't even know what this means because you couldn't get a proper voice line) spam every 30 seconds - Really obnoxious music at the start/end of the rounds. Suijin also does this (albeit a lot better than Snowplow). It's not good. You're not original. It doesn't enhance the map in any way and the music slider doesn't affect the volume of it. Stop it. Snowplow could have been pretty good if they just made the train a background object that simply moves to the next station once a point is captured. There is no need for the HUD or damage/vague timer crap.

The music is nice on both the maps. It's not loud, it's not annoying. On suijin it's very short, and on snowplow it hypes up the round. [QUOTE]the point isn't if it's good or not, the point is no other official map really does it. It's unfitting.[/QUOTE] Asteroid says hello. Anyway, it doesn't matter if no other official map does it, what matters is whether or not it works in context.

Honestly, if Snowplow actually followed the standards for an A/D map it might have been added the first time around. Now it looks like Valve caved in just to get rid of the "too confusing for new players" meme and save face. [editline]4th July 2015[/editline] and about the music, the point isn't if it's good or not, the point is no other official map really does it. It's unfitting.

I legit want a pl_snowplow now. There are too many good defensive positions between each cap, the continual objective would translate well. Also a large, chew-chew-like train front would be fitting.

[QUOTE=Snowshoe;48124863]A few things I absolutely hate about Snowplow: - The entire gimmick of the train being the timer. This includes the train HUD and damage system that could easily be a regular timer e.g. Mountainlab/Mann Manor. - The train using the outline when it's not the capture objective - THE ENEMY IS ABOUT TO DEPLOY THE DEVICE (99% of people don't even know what this means because you couldn't get a proper voice line) spam every 30 seconds - Really obnoxious music at the start/end of the rounds. Suijin also does this (albeit a lot better than Snowplow). It's not good. You're not original. It doesn't enhance the map in any way and the music slider doesn't affect the volume of it. Stop it. Snowplow could have been pretty good if they just made the train a background object that simply moves to the next station once a point is captured. There is no need for the HUD or damage/vague timer crap.[/QUOTE] I agree with each point, but tbh i like the music, then again i'm a rather ambiance-appreciative person

My biggest problem with snowplow is how quickly the train moves between traps. It's way too fast and looks awful imo.