Major Update Speculation XXVI: Much Ado About Nothing - Games

[QUOTE=Netsc;48155508]Has anyone done any tests to see what the outcome of a heavy with the default minigun and a heavy with natascha going 1 on 1 with the damage resistances on the natascha is?[/QUOTE] Just stat math off the top of my head 20% resistance and 25% dmg penalty on Natascha, which means Sasha is dealing 5% more damage to Natascha. So if both heavies were spun up and fighting at point blank with normal full health, assuming they fire at precisely the same time, Sasha will always win. If Sasha has about >270 hp, Natascha will win. What I want to see is how much dps the tomislav does at medium distances (such as 2fort bridge end to end) vs Sasha, if the accuracy outweighs the firerate penalty in terms of dps at that distance.

[QUOTE=Power Glove;48155559]Just stat math off the top of my head 20% resistance and 25% dmg penalty on Natascha, which means Sasha is dealing 5% more damage to Natascha. So if both heavies were spun up and fighting at point blank with normal full health, assuming they fire at precisely the same time, Sasha will always win. If Sasha has about >270 hp, Natascha will win. What I want to see is how much dps the tomislav does at medium distances (such as 2fort bridge end to end) vs Sasha, if the accuracy outweighs the firerate penalty in terms of dps at that distance.[/QUOTE] Just from gameplay experience I would say the tomislav will have you win midrange fights but youll lose at closer ranges.

[QUOTE=krsp1249;48155502]hmm what is this? [IMG]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/rD3_WTnOO4XgDObjj5N85TDPTVYWK2fSL1CApU3New=w958-h476-no[/IMG][/QUOTE] Probably the Lil Guardian Pyro since that video was made by the same people who made the Lil Guardian Pyro video.

[QUOTE=TheJukebox;48152342]Every single one of those points is actually an argument against you. :v: 1. BANG posted specifically to stop all the people saying that this is an official update, and that the MyM article wasn't supposed to have teases for Invasion. He specifically said that the community project is entirely different than whatever Valve is doing with rd_asteroid. Also, coming very close to saying something isn't evidence, that's making assumptions based on selective hearing. [/QUOTE] In all honesty, and no offense meant, but I think the Invasion team is trying to make sure it doesn't get as hyped up as EOTL did. I remember reading talk somewhere about how it was a bit like "Valve's doing a space update? Well, so are we!" Probably back in the old Mercs vs Alien thread that was in this subforum somewhere. A space race, if you will. And also covering their ass if Valve near the end says "nah we don't want to do it" At the end of the day, Invasion "community update" is definitely a thing, and we just don't know if it's a EOTL-style update, or a NOTLU style update yet.

[QUOTE=poptart TF2;48155673]Just from gameplay experience I would say the tomislav will have you win midrange fights but youll lose at closer ranges.[/QUOTE] You need to factor the rev up time as well. By the time Sasha deals full damage the tomislav is already taking 40hp~ off your life

seems like the glitch with dropping a gun into the bombpit in PL is still there...

They did not learn after the Bread props doing the exact same thing, did they

[QUOTE=kamuixmod;48156930]seems like the glitch with dropping a gun into the bombpit in PL is still there...[/QUOTE] They fixed it today though or is it a different bug?

[QUOTE=IntenseBarney;48157059]They fixed it today though or is it a different bug?[/QUOTE] it seems like neither. edit: ok so the problem basically stems from the fact that a bomb hatch hole is basically a pit with an invisible floor coded just for players, a glass hatch prop that is actually intangible (set so you can go through it), and a trigger below that that says "if a physics object touches this, explode and trigger gameplay mechanics", with the intended physics object being the mine cart (which turns into a physics object when triggered to fall into the hole). once the mine cart is triggered to fall the player invisible floor turns off or goes away, so that players can fall down the hole. if they just made it so that the PLAYER CLIP brush also blocks physics objects, this wouldn't be a problem. physical objects like fallen ammo, guns, and sentry pieces shouldnt be out of players' reach anyway, so it shouldn't (see: SHOULDN'T but WILL) break everything. this would stop shit from falling down the hatch and triggering the explosion.

[QUOTE=TheJoey;48157381] if they just made it so that the PLAYER CLIP brush also blocks physics objects, this wouldn't be a problem. physical objects like fallen ammo, guns, and sentry pieces shouldnt be out of players' reach anyway, so it shouldn't (see: SHOULDN'T but WILL) break everything. this would stop shit from falling down the hatch and triggering the explosion.[/QUOTE] Not true, the problem was shit was spawning inside the clip brush meaning it gets pushed downwards and triggering the explosion

[QUOTE=IntenseBarney;48157523]Not true, the problem was shit was spawning inside the clip brush meaning it gets pushed downwards and triggering the explosion[/QUOTE] seriously? before it was just things falling in, i didnt realize things were literally spawning in the trigger.

[QUOTE=TheJoey;48157531]seriously? before it was just things falling in, i didnt realize things were literally spawning in the trigger.[/QUOTE] It's something to do with the way weapon pickups are handled, you can also bug the game and lose one of your weapon slots (allowing things like minigun with buffalo steak) by getting in a teletrap and picking up a weapon because the teletrap gets the weapon stuck. [editline]9th July 2015[/editline] Their fix to the weapons in payload pit issue was to make it so you can't pick up weapons by taunting, since valve always goes for the laziest fix.

[QUOTE=IntenseBarney;48157549]It's something to do with the way weapon pickups are handled, you can also bug the game and lose one of your weapon slots (allowing things like minigun with buffalo steak) by getting in a teletrap and picking up a weapon because the teletrap gets the weapon stuck. [editline]9th July 2015[/editline] Their fix to the weapons in payload pit issue was to make it so you can't pick up weapons by taunting, since valve always goes for the laziest fix.[/QUOTE] a video on reddit showed it being done with a flamethrower, i guess it was long enough to trigger the pit (badwater). they need to change the trigger from any physics prop to just the cart to stop this permanently. I assume they've done this already, as upwards doesn't explode if a weapon falls into it. (i think) edit: back from what was going to be a quick test. can confirm switching flamethrowers can trigger it on badwater. Also had it happen by just suiciding with the flamethrower out.

[QUOTE=chandlerj333;48157647]a video on reddit showed it being done with a flamethrower, i guess it was long enough to trigger the pit (badwater). they need to change the trigger from any physics prop to just the cart to stop this permanently. I assume they've done this already, as upwards doesn't explode if a weapon falls into it. (i think)[/QUOTE] i think they're trying to avoid solutions that involve actually changing the entities on the map, since there could still be countless custom maps using the old entity setup that are still prone to the bug the real solution would be if they could somehow hard-code it so that dropped weapons never set off trigger entities

It's annoying how they're removing 1hits from the game (caber, huntsman) without actually buffing the weapon in return. These aren't good weapons and they deserve something in exchange.

[QUOTE=hrak;48157791]It's annoying how they're removing 1hits from the game (caber, huntsman) without actually buffing the weapon in return. These aren't good weapons and they deserve something in exchange.[/QUOTE] Hunstman can still 1 hit, you just have to actually land a headshot

[QUOTE=hrak;48157791]It's annoying how they're removing 1hits from the game (caber, huntsman) without actually buffing the weapon in return. These aren't good weapons and they deserve something in exchange.[/QUOTE] what? they didn't change the huntsman. you can also still one hit kill with the caber if you dont count the shield bash.

[QUOTE=TheJoey;48157843]what? they didn't change the huntsman.[/QUOTE] Damage spread could apply onehit kills

Having a random chance to one hit kill is poor design. It's just RNG if you kill them or not. [QUOTE=TheJoey;48157881]damage spread is normally used as a term to describe weapons with spread as far as i know. like a shotgun. and i can't find this among huntsman patches ([url]https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Huntsman#Update_history[/url]) so please explain. did huntsman have a random chance of applying damage elsewhere, other than where the arrow hit? i'm not sure i follow.[/QUOTE] You're thinking of bullet spread. Damage spread is when a weapon has a random chance to deal more or less damage. They recently made damage spread off by default.

[QUOTE=LittleBabyman;48157851]Damage spread could apply onehit kills[/QUOTE] damage spread is normally used as a term to describe weapons with spread as far as i know. like a shotgun. and i can't find this among huntsman patches ([url]https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Huntsman#Update_history[/url]) so please explain. did huntsman have a random chance of applying damage elsewhere, other than where the arrow hit? i'm not sure i follow.

damage spread =! bullet spread

[QUOTE=TheJoey;48157881]damage spread is normally used as a term to describe weapons with spread as far as i know. like a shotgun. and i can't find this among huntsman patches ([url]https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Huntsman#Update_history[/url]) so please explain. did huntsman have a random chance of applying damage elsewhere, other than where the arrow hit? i'm not sure i follow.[/QUOTE] Damage spread is a modifier to damage. What you're thinking of is pellet spread, which only affects bullet weapons (aside from Sniper Rifles)

[QUOTE=Supreveio;48157938]Damage spread is a modifier to damage. What you're thinking of is pellet spread, which only affects bullet weapons (aside from Sniper Rifles)[/QUOTE] it only affects shotguns (and scout primaries)

I thought that stuff like the Pistol, SMG and Revolver used bullet spread as well, you just can't make it consistent like with shotguns.

i've been completely unaware the huntsman arrows had any such thing. what the fuck?

[QUOTE=TheJoey;48158054]i've been completely unaware the huntsman arrows had any such thing. what the fuck?[/QUOTE] Pretty much every damage source in the game did that.

It bothers me that so many people who are interested in tf2 enough to visit forums for the game dont even know what damage spread is, havent you ever wondered why it sometimes takes 3 melee swings to kill a light class instead of 2?

[QUOTE=Supreveio;48158051]I thought that stuff like the Pistol, SMG and Revolver used bullet spread as well, you just can't make it consistent like with shotguns.[/QUOTE] They do. That's why you can't snipe with pistols or SMGs.

[QUOTE=Supreveio;48158051]I thought that stuff like the Pistol, SMG and Revolver used bullet spread as well, you just can't make it consistent like with shotguns.[/QUOTE] I think what you mean is the one guaranteed pellet to always hit the center of your crosshair

The pistol, SMG and revolver have "spread recovery", the amount of time it takes after a shot to return to 100% accuracy. Most are 1.25 seconds, however the ambassador and enforcer are 0.95 seconds. There may be others with quicker spread recovery, but I did a quick check and couldn't find anything else.