Major Update Speculation XXVI: Much Ado About Nothing - Games

id much rather have them for the assets, putting them on community server rotation and porting them over to stuff like sfm tbh, even if they are no longer played

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;48231440]The backlash from removing Snowplow would be unreal [editline]17th July 2015[/editline] It would also be confusing to TF2 players because we're not used to having maps removed.[/QUOTE] I can't see a reason why they would remove it, like there really is no reason to remove maps in tf2 whatsoever at all Like the best you can do is put them into their own category if they're event tied or special maps

Bit unrelated but didn't want to post this in its own thread, I have a shitload of spare weapons, is the best (most 'profitable') thing to do with them still to craft them into scrap?

[QUOTE=Netsc;48231612]Bit unrelated but didn't want to post this in its own thread, I have a shitload of spare weapons, is the best (most 'profitable') thing to do with them still to craft them into scrap?[/QUOTE] Sell them for 1 scrap each for a tiny profit. It'll probably take a while, but it works.

We've had entire map stages removed without much explanation.

[QUOTE=Upgrade;48231815]We've had entire map stages removed without much explanation.[/QUOTE] Are you talking about the beta maps that were still in development? Of course there's going to be drastic changes to those, that's got nothing to do with removing completed maps for no reason.

Huh. System messages telling that the Item-Server will be down? It's a little thing, yet nice.

[QUOTE=omegasupreme1;48230663]You just don't understand do you? You can't just cut the best map in the game, no matter how unplayed it is[/QUOTE] They also can't do it since the Valve commentaries are placed in Hydro. And since placing them in another map would take effort, nah it's not gonna happen.

[QUOTE=Doom64hunter;48231984]They also can't do it since the Valve commentaries are placed in Hydro. And since placing them in another map would take effort, nah it's not gonna happen.[/QUOTE] In the modern day, truthfully I could see them removing it without remembering the commentaries and having it crash every time it loads. It would be hilarious, but also a sad moment in gaming history.

remember when the original 9 hats were taken out of circulation just to fuck with the economy haha :)

Something I'd want is an H for loadout presets, which is cosmetics only but would work for halloween vision. Basically it's the loadout anyone with it on sees, and if they don't have any item that triggers halloween vision then it's normal.

[QUOTE=Cufflux;48232423]Something I'd want is an H for loadout presets, which is cosmetics only but would work for halloween vision. Basically it's the loadout anyone with it on sees, and if they don't have any item that triggers halloween vision then it's normal.[/QUOTE] I like that idea. That and finding some way to remove the actual halloween cosmetics until a full moon or halloween starts would help the halloween stuff a lot, I'd assume.

[QUOTE=Punchy;48227063]Lmao imagine the insane backlash if snowplow was [U][B]un[/B][/U]added[/QUOTE] that'd make snowplough the perfect outrage engine. First it was arbitrarily cut months ahead without any communication that the one gameplay addition to EOTL was ejected over a stupid petty reason, then it was added in later, which just pissed everyone off again because it made the whole eotl fiasco entirely pointless and even more arbitrary, and just generally rubbed salt in the wound. I can't even imagine the firestorm that'd happen if valve went "actually just kidding, we're running this shit like CS for no particular reason now. BYE." i feel like Tf2 is becoming the detention duty in valve now for devs that're acting out or whatever. Like if Valve had a monopoly board, Jail would just be "work on TF2"

[URL]http://strawpoll.me/4951782[/URL] How'd you feel if they were removed? Cast your votes! EDIT: Sorry for using Strawpoll. I suck and regret everything in my life.

I'd be mad if Borneo or Powerhouse were removed. The other 2 maps I wouldn't mind being removed.

honestly, I think that would just be really unfair to the people who made the map if they were removed after the event, especially with no mention of that at all during the update. What would they even gain for removing a map they just added?

If they're planning on featuring lots of maps from the workshop, it could very quickly add up to a TON of maps. Removing them would keep things neater and not bloat downloads. But they're small downsides of keeping the maps around for those who want them still imho

Patch notes: -ended gun metal campaign -removed the four campaign maps (Five minutes later) Hotfix: -re-added the four maps please stop throwing rocks at valve hq.

[QUOTE=Youme;48233284]If they're planning on featuring lots of maps from the workshop, it could very quickly add up to a TON of maps. Removing them would keep things neater and not bloat downloads. But they're small downsides of keeping the maps around for those who want them still imho[/QUOTE] While I can understand if the intent is to reduce initial download size, that's no excuse for axing community content from the official lineup. If they are planning on using the Maps workshop more heavily, I'd not mind if didn't also mean removing it from official rotations. All servers (including Valve's) have the infrastructure to utilize the maps workshop. The only realistic issue would arise if the map on the workshop is updated and the server is running an out-of-date version while players are getting the newest one. Players shouldn't be forced to seek out community servers for these official-run maps when the community-run server scene has been in shambles since the addition of quickplay (especially when contrasted with how lively it was before the inclusion of quickplay).

[QUOTE=DrCactus;48233244]honestly, I think that would just be really unfair to the people who made the map if they were removed after the event, especially with no mention of that at all during the update. What would they even gain for removing a map they just added?[/QUOTE] the creators of the maps would stop receiving money for their work after the end of the campaign anyways

Well that's another thing that should be brought up. How can Valve help us get community servers back up and running and successful again?

You do realize they can update maps, right There is literally no point in removing one

[QUOTE=Youme;48233534]Well that's another thing that should be brought up. How can Valve help us get community servers back up and running and successful again?[/QUOTE] For one: stop funneling players into Valve servers. From their perspective it does make sense, as that's what's considered the most "pure" first impression of the game -- no nonsense mods, no gimmick/joke maps, no abusive admins, and no things that modify what is TF2 at its core. However, it fosters lazy players who are unspeaking, slow to learn the intricacies of the game, and hesitant to explore other servers/maps because that's unfamiliar territory. Why put in effort when it's a simple 2 clicks away with a giant "PLAY NOW" plastered over it? It's difficult to build communities when the potential new members are just herded into the grind-fests that are Valve servers. Those who do intentionally seek out community servers are also relatively-seasoned players; and their time cannot be spread too thinly between the few communities that they are loyal to (if any). And veteran players only have so much time and interest to devote toward the game when community servers are in the state they're in now; it's a gradual decline in numbers until a server cannot maintain it's upkeep costs due to disinterest. While the addition of Quickplay saw a swift end to the predatory ad-based servers such as Pinion, it caused enough collateral damage to community server populations that most rolled over and croaked. The only third-party servers that I've seen survive that purge were clan or website-based servers that are tight-knit, gimmicky trade/orange-style focused servers, and the big boxes like skial and lotus.

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;48233609]However, it fosters lazy players who are unspeaking, slow to learn the intricacies of the game, and hesitant to explore other servers/maps because that's unfamiliar territory. Why put in effort when it's a simple 2 clicks away with a giant "PLAY NOW" plastered over it? It's difficult to build communities when the potential new members are just herded into the grind-fests that are Valve servers. Those who do intentionally seek out community servers are also relatively-seasoned players; and their time cannot be spread too thinly between the few communities that they are loyal to (if any). And veteran players only have so much time and interest to devote toward the game when community servers are in the state they're in now; it's a gradual decline in numbers until a server cannot maintain it's upkeep costs due to disinterest.[/QUOTE] I dunno - if someone is genuinely [I][B]too lazy[/B][/I] to search for a community server on their own, is that really the sort of person who is going to become a valuable member of [I][B]any[/B][/I] community? I know if [I][B]I[/B][/I] wouldn't want them.

imo, if valve is going to continue with this "hands-off" approach they've been doing for awhile, then they should focus more on player-base conservation and less on making sure that new players never have to think for themselves.

There's got to be a compromise both parties may reach.

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;48233609]For one: stop funneling players into Valve servers. From their perspective it does make sense, as that's what's considered the most "pure" first impression of the game -- no nonsense mods, no gimmick/joke maps, no abusive admins, and no things that modify what is TF2 at its core. However, it fosters lazy players who are unspeaking, slow to learn the intricacies of the game, and hesitant to explore other servers/maps because that's unfamiliar territory. Why put in effort when it's a simple 2 clicks away with a giant "PLAY NOW" plastered over it? It's difficult to build communities when the potential new members are just herded into the grind-fests that are Valve servers. Those who do intentionally seek out community servers are also relatively-seasoned players; and their time cannot be spread too thinly between the few communities that they are loyal to (if any). And veteran players only have so much time and interest to devote toward the game when community servers are in the state they're in now; it's a gradual decline in numbers until a server cannot maintain it's upkeep costs due to disinterest. While the addition of Quickplay saw a swift end to the predatory ad-based servers such as Pinion, it caused enough collateral damage to community server populations that most rolled over and croaked. The only third-party servers that I've seen survive that purge were clan or website-based servers that are tight-knit, gimmicky trade/orange-style focused servers, and the big boxes like skial and lotus.[/QUOTE] I can definitely see why Valve did what they did. You remember what it was like back then, when Pinion was at its worst. The only way to avoid the ads was to either seek out the few ad-free servers and save them to your favorites, or just stick to Valve servers. But what about newer, inexperienced players who didn't know those techniques? Imagine what it was like for them back then. Go through the server browser and find one running a map you like? Bam, pinion ads. Use quickplay to find a server for you? Bam, more pinion ads. Unless you already knew what you were doing, the game was now Ad Fortress 2. That's a lot of trouble you have to go through just to be able to play a video game. So, to fix this problem, Valve just changed quickplay to send you to a guaranteed ad-free server by default, so even the newest players finally had a way to [i]just play a quick game of TF2[/i] without having to worry about which servers will force them to watch a minute-long ad every round. As far as I'm concerned, Pinion was already killing community servers from the inside, and quickplay was just Valve pulling the plug. Could they have handled it better? Probably. Maybe instead of going the "valve servers by default" route, they could've adopted a zero-tolerance policy towards ads, paying for advantages, and that sort of thing, and aggressively de-listed servers that tried to find ways around it. But that's a bit more ambitious than just changing the default setting for the quickplay menu.

[QUOTE=TwoYearLurker;48234611]I can definitely see why Valve did what they did. You remember what it was like back then, when Pinion was at its worst. The only way to avoid the ads was to either seek out the few ad-free servers and save them to your favorites, or just stick to Valve servers. But what about newer, inexperienced players who didn't know those techniques? Imagine what it was like for them back then. Go through the server browser and find one running a map you like? Bam, pinion ads. Use quickplay to find a server for you? Bam, more pinion ads. Unless you already knew what you were doing, the game was now Ad Fortress 2. That's a lot of trouble you have to go through just to be able to play a video game. So, to fix this problem, Valve just changed quickplay to send you to a guaranteed ad-free server by default, so even the newest players finally had a way to [i]just play a quick game of TF2[/i] without having to worry about which servers will force them to watch a minute-long ad every round. As far as I'm concerned, Pinion was already killing community servers from the inside, and quickplay was just Valve pulling the plug. Could they have handled it better? Probably. Maybe instead of going the "valve servers by default" route, they could've adopted a zero-tolerance policy towards ads, paying for advantages, and that sort of thing, and aggressively de-listed servers that tried to find ways around it. But that's a bit more ambitious than just changing the default setting for the quickplay menu.[/QUOTE] Oh god you reminded me of pinion. Fuck everything about that shit.

[QUOTE=Youme;48233534]Well that's another thing that should be brought up. How can Valve help us get community servers back up and running and successful again?[/QUOTE]After years of Pinion and hilariously unfair donator benefits? They don't.

[QUOTE=TectoImprov;48234638]Oh god you reminded me of pinion. Fuck everything about that shit.[/QUOTE] The only thing worse than life under pinion is life under dota