Major Update Speculation XXVI: Much Ado About Nothing - Games

You know, after the Smissmas festivities ended, I was planning on not playing tf2 again until the next major update hit, just to detox myself a little. I cracked around the start of May, and started playing again. Despite all the stupid shit that goes on with this game, like the terrible communication, the update droughts, and the extraordinarily questionable weapon balancing, I always seem to find myself coming back for one more round of 5Gorge (or whatever map I can get a decent connection on). So I guess my point is that even though the updates never seem to come when we want them to, and there are a ton of weapons we all wish would burn in hell (looking at you, gunslinger), the fact that we still play the game and eagerly anticipate what will happen with it next is something of a testament to how good this game really is. I think that even if at some point in the not too distant future Valve just said: "This is gonna be the last update, we're done," people would still continue to play this game for quite a while afterwards. I mean besides, how many people do you know who say they hate this game, but play it anyway? this game isn't going away anytime soon. Tl;dr: I think I may be addicted to this game. :v:

The situation with DotA 2's current treatment and the fact that TF2 is frequently claimed to be "dead", despite being strong for its age, reminds me of: [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/Bp0tWf0.png[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Mayor Luigi;47946571]You know, after the Smissmas festivities ended, I was planning on not playing tf2 again until the next major update hit, just to detox myself a little. I cracked around the start of May, and started playing again. Despite all the stupid shit that goes on with this game, like the terrible communication, the update droughts, and the extraordinarily questionable weapon balancing, I always seem to find myself coming back for one more round of 5Gorge (or whatever map I can get a decent connection on). So I guess my point is that even though the updates never seem to come when we want them to, and there are a ton of weapons we all wish would burn in hell (looking at you, gunslinger), the fact that we still play the game and eagerly anticipate what will happen with it next is something of a testament to how good this game really is. I think that even if at some point in the not too distant future Valve just said: "This is gonna be the last update, we're done," people would still continue to play this game for quite a while afterwards. I mean besides, how many people do you know who say they hate this game, but play it anyway? this game isn't going away anytime soon. Tl;dr: I think I may be addicted to this game. :v:[/QUOTE] yep it'll do that :v: I'll be honest though, I dont really pay attention to the tf2 market, prices, weapon bugs and whatnot, I just play TF2 because it's so fucking hilarious in the game

[QUOTE=zp92;47946616]yep it'll do that :v: I'll be honest though, I dont really pay attention to the tf2 market, prices, weapon bugs and whatnot, I just play TF2 because it's so fucking hilarious in the game[/QUOTE] I really hope we'll be getting more voice lines within the game. The VA and writing are brilliant.

[QUOTE=-=NARH=-;47945521] the only reason we even knew of the supposed Spy vs. Engie Update was because of testinglol, right? We weren't even given any actual information from the TF Team themselves about future updates..[/QUOTE] Well there was some Spy vs Engie related stuff updated into the game, like a holiday status which currently does nothing, animations for an engie revolver and strings for a speed pad

[QUOTE=Metaru;47944867][B]weapons, nor maps were never part of the deal.[/B][/QUOTE] The Back Scatter was confirmed later to be a weapon meant for EToL, but was instead shipped for Love & War for some reason. Also, you seem to be forgetting about Snowplow, the map that was hyped several times over by the community right before the update was finally shipped in which point it was already cut.

[QUOTE=Dr. Kyuros;47948839]The Back Scatter was confirmed later to be a weapon meant for EToL, but was instead shipped for Love & War for some reason. Also, you seem to be forgetting about Snowplow, the map that was hyped several times over right before the update was finally shipped.[/QUOTE] For the hundredth time, he made a video very specially saying that the video and cosmetics were the only things confirmed, not a map or weapons. [video]https://youtu.be/USfSQDfMj6w[/video]

True, it wasn't confirmed to be included. Something else that's true is that the mappers and the EotL team were in direct contact with Valve during Snowplow's development. Valve regularly gave their input on it, and it was pretty much bound to be added. Then they refrained from adding it out of the blue, with an absolutely baffling and insulting reason that made zero sense. The problem isn't that they didn't add it. It's the fact that they baited everyone and then threw all that effort away for absolutely no reason, punching the community and the crew in their collective face.

The only problem I have with the whole Snowplow situation is how the EotL team already knew that the map wasn't going to be included a month or so before release, but weren't allowed to talk about it until the update had came out. [B]Why?[/B] They really should have dropped that info as soon as possible and defused the hype early, bringing everyone down to more reasonable expectations, instead of letting the anticipation build for nothing and having it all come crashing down the way it did.

[QUOTE=Oizen;47945251]Here I'll recap what you missed Since October ScreamFortress was a Bumpercar Minigame, wasnt bad actually, introduced a joke about collecting Rubberducks in one of the Bumpercar minigames, Merasmus would sometimes scream BONUS DUCKS. End of the Line, the most hyped update of the year ended up being one of the worst updates in TF2 history, cp_snowplow was deemed too confusing so it wasn't added, No new weapons, and the event we got instead was... picking up Rubber ducks. Not only that but in order to collect the rubber ducks this time you had to pay money for a journal to collect ducks. What did the ducks do? Absolutely nothing! Valve released Mann Powered mode as damage control during the Smissmass update due to the backlash against End of the Line. Demoman was also slightly rebalanced Mannpower was pretty terrible then, and its not much better now. I wont go into its problems here, but I imagine it'll be in "beta" for a very very long time. This was about half a year ago. And since then...we've gotten pretty much nothing. And we dont even have anything to go off of to be hyped about an upcomming update.[/QUOTE] Welp, that's a bummer. Well, at least I have, what, 4 months to learn how to play this game again before the next halloween update :v:

[QUOTE=Omninerd;47949335]Welp, that's a bummer. Well, at least I have, what, 4 months to learn how to play this game again before the next halloween update :v:[/QUOTE] IF we'll even have one at this rate.

[QUOTE=Flubbman;47949091]True, it wasn't confirmed to be included. Something else that's true is that the mappers and the EotL team were in direct contact with Valve during Snowplow's development. Valve regularly gave their input on it, and it was pretty much bound to be added. Then they refrained from adding it out of the blue, with an absolutely baffling and insulting reason that made zero sense.[/QUOTE] "Too confusing for new players" was a legitimate reason though. A lot of people give it shit but fail to recognize that, yes, it actually is confusing for no substantial reason (contrast with Robot Destruction, which is confusing because there's no way to break it down any further. It's just got so many things going on at the core of the mode). When a veteran plays the mode, they pick at it and deduce "It's Attack/Defend." That's what the map was at its core, there was no reason to have the train as a prop to be used as a timer. In the time since the map workshop went live, I've seen more servers running snowplow. I've seen people genuinely confused as to what was going on, most notably "Why do we only get 30 seconds?" The map's custom mode was needlessly complex for what is normally a very straightforward game mode. The testers played it with the presumption of knowing Attack/Defense and offered layout and balance criticism under that pretense, very few actually brought up problems with the mode itself. I'd place this tenacity on YM, he tried his damnedest to make it work well. The original versions of the map had a slow-moving "train" that players followed around and tried to open paths for, lest it take the long way around and get damaged by a trap like it does now. This was horrible for pacing because the train dictated the game's flow instead of players dictating the game's flow. It put teams in situations where the game would drag forever if they didn't rush that first control point in the first 60 seconds of play before the train passed it. I could tell that YM wanted to have the train stay as the focus of the map throughout the entirety, but sadly it just wasn't a good enough idea to make work; either the train would control players (like it did early on), or the train would become a useless prop (like it is now). What I'd place as Valve's fault was the complacency throughout development. They would drop in to play with us, and then take it away to play privately, then return the next time with some feedback. Not once did I see them make a strong case about the train mechanic, it was left to sit, and as such it was built upon because there was that air of "it's fine, just go with it" despite it actually being the crux in the map's outlook. The map may very well have been official if there were sufficient feedback during the map's creation; if Valve themselves aren't giving a red-light on a mechanic with [i]well over half a year in advance[/i], then there's no reason to excuse them for axing said mechanic when it was time for the release. That's a problem that needs to be ironed out very early, not with a month's notice.

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;47949722]"Too confusing for new players" was a legitimate reason though. A lot of people give it shit but fail to recognize that, yes, it actually is confusing for no substantial reason (contrast with Robot Destruction, which is confusing because there's no way to break it down any further. It's just got so many things going on at the core of the mode). When a veteran plays the mode, they pick at it and deduce "It's Attack/Defend." That's what the map was at its core, there was no reason to have the train as a prop to be used as a timer. In the time since the map workshop went live, I've seen more servers running snowplow. I've seen people genuinely confused as to what was going on, most notably "Why do we only get 30 seconds?" The map's custom mode was needlessly complex for what is normally a very straightforward game mode. The testers played it with the presumption of knowing Attack/Defense and offered layout and balance criticism under that pretense, very few actually brought up problems with the mode itself. I'd place this tenacity on YM, he tried his damnedest to make it work well. The original versions of the map had a slow-moving "train" that players followed around and tried to open paths for, lest it take the long way around and get damaged by a trap like it does now. This was horrible for pacing because the train dictated the game's flow instead of players dictating the game's flow. It put teams in situations where the game would drag forever if they didn't rush that first control point in the first 60 seconds of play before the train passed it. I could tell that YM wanted to have the train stay as the focus of the map throughout the entirety, but sadly it just wasn't a good enough idea to make work; either the train would control players (like it did early on), or the train would become a useless prop (like it is now). What I'd place as Valve's fault was the complacency throughout development. They would drop in to play with us, and then take it away to play privately, then return the next time with some feedback. Not once did I see them make a strong case about the train mechanic, it was left to sit, and as such it was built upon because there was that air of "it's fine, just go with it" despite it actually being the crux in the map's outlook. The map may very well have been official if there were sufficient feedback during the map's creation; if Valve themselves aren't giving a red-light on a mechanic with [i]well over half a year in advance[/i], then there's no reason to excuse them for axing said mechanic when it was time for the release. That's a problem that needs to be ironed out very early, not with a month's notice.[/QUOTE] that's funny, I haven't even begun to comprehend the duck journal system yet. I legitimately still have no idea how it works.

[QUOTE=Hell-met;47949743]that's funny, I haven't even begun to comprehend the duck journal system yet. I legitimately still have no idea how it works.[/QUOTE] What's there to understand? When you pick up a duck, your duck counter goes up. You can use the journal to see other player's duck counters. If you have a journal equipped in your loadout, enemies you kill drop more ducks, with the amount they drop getting larger the more tokens you've put into your journal.

[QUOTE=TwoYearLurker;47949843]What's there to understand? When you pick up a duck, your duck counter goes up. You can use the journal to see other player's duck counters. If you have a journal equipped in your loadout, enemies you kill drop more ducks, with the amount they drop getting larger the more tokens you've put into your journal.[/QUOTE] now how would you expect a new player to get all of this?

[QUOTE=TwoYearLurker;47949843]What's there to understand? When you pick up a duck, your duck counter goes up. You can use the journal to see other player's duck counters. If you have a journal equipped in your loadout, enemies you kill drop more ducks, with the amount they drop getting larger the more tokens you've put into your journal.[/QUOTE] 80% of duck journal owners never passed level 2, 19% never passed level 5. of the few who did, i imagine a good chunk grinded it to level ~430,000. At least, that's the level mine stopped at.

What's the longest time between major updates? Have we broke the record yet?

[QUOTE=TwoYearLurker;47949843]What's there to understand? When you pick up a duck, your duck counter goes up. You can use the journal to see other player's duck counters. If you have a journal equipped in your loadout, enemies you kill drop more ducks, with the amount they drop getting larger the more tokens you've put into your journal.[/QUOTE] And you had to pay for it? No real prizes or anything else? Geez, man...

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;47949722]In the time since the map workshop went live, I've seen more servers running snowplow. I've seen people genuinely confused as to what was going on, most notably "Why do we only get 30 seconds?" The map's custom mode was needlessly complex for what is normally a very straightforward game mode. The testers played it with the presumption of knowing Attack/Defense and offered layout and balance criticism under that pretense, very few actually brought up problems with the mode itself. [/QUOTE] I remember when the map came out for public download/beta-testing, that I saw a lot of players try and straight up shoot the train. However, "Too confusing for new players" has sadly become one of those lines people trot out whenever they feel like it, along with the (unsourced) reason for only being able to play as RED in MvM.

I wonder what it was like to have started playing TF2 during the EOTL update and seeing hundreds of ducks littered across the battlefield while some man shouts 'BONUS DUCKS!' at you.

[QUOTE=Jetamo;47949890]I remember when the map came out for public download/beta-testing, that I saw a lot of players try and straight up shoot the train. [/QUOTE] It was a lot worse in early versions of snowplow because the "train" was just an MvM tank on rails. I was guilty of shooting at it too, but you can't be surprised when people shoot the thing that they've been trained to shoot at. Hell, even in the current release people see a healthbar and assume it can be damaged. This is something videogames have trained us to do for decades now.

I genuinely can't understand what was difficult about that map, it was so basic in concept. I showed this to a friend of mine who had NEVER played the game before and she understood 100% what to do the moment she saw it

[QUOTE=Hell-met;47949743]that's funny, I haven't even begun to comprehend the duck journal system yet. I legitimately still have no idea how it works.[/QUOTE] Im more shocked that people bought the duck journal. I refused to go near the thing because it would mean supporting what Valve did there. Regardless of whom the money actually went to.

[QUOTE=Cosmic feel;47949940]I genuinely can't understand what was difficult about that map, it was so basic in concept. I showed this to a friend of mine who had NEVER played the game before and she understood 100% what to do the moment she saw it[/QUOTE] So she sees a train with a healthbar and her first instinct isn't to shoot it?

[QUOTE=Cosmic feel;47949940]I genuinely can't understand what was difficult about that map, it was so basic in concept. I showed this to a friend of mine who had NEVER played the game before and she understood 100% what to do the moment she saw it[/QUOTE] I have a gun. Guns do damage to people and things. Game is highlighting this train with a blue outline, it must be important. My HUD has a train on it and a healthbar for said train. If the first thought going through anyone's mind isn't to use the gun on the train, then you're either telling the person up-front about what they [i]should[/i] be doing, you're making up anecdotal evidence that's not even remotely true, or the person who you showed this to didn't even look at the train and only saw the control point HUD but somehow isn't looking at the train health or the drastically-shorter timer.

[QUOTE=Magypsy;47949899]I wonder what it was like to have started playing TF2 during the EOTL update and seeing hundreds of ducks littered across the battlefield while Nolan North shouts forced memes at you.[/QUOTE] Fixed that for ya'.

The thing about cp_snowplow was, while it wasn't the most straight forward map, it still made a lot more sense than a few other maps valve added. cp_steel comes to mind. fuck steel.

[QUOTE=Oizen;47950052]The thing about cp_snowplow was, while it wasn't the most straight forward map, it still made a lot more sense than a few other maps valve added. cp_steel comes to mind. fuck steel.[/QUOTE] Don't you talk about my favourite map like that.

[QUOTE=Oizen;47950052]The thing about cp_snowplow was, while it wasn't the most straight forward map, it still made a lot more sense than a few other maps valve added. cp_steel comes to mind. fuck steel.[/QUOTE] There are icons for control points. A lot of them have locks on them except A and E. There are signs everywhere telling you which point you're going toward if you continue down the path. When you're dead, the spectator cam slaps a chalk drawing of the map at your face so you can read it, this chalk drawing updates when more points are captured. The difficult part of steel is knowing when to attack or defend which points, not finding your way around or understanding the mode. This is true with all maps and it's not an exclusive enigma specific to steel: knowing when to push, hold ground, or retreat.

[QUOTE=Erfly;47949959]So she sees a train with a healthbar and her first instinct isn't to shoot it?[/QUOTE] Well, you know when there's a bunch if jerry rigged traps in its way and a timer counting down while said traps are readying its kinda implied