Major Update Speculation XXVI: Much Ado About Nothing - Games

[QUOTE=Youme;48086259]Not people who don't want to pay it, the people who run to forums to complain about it, who scream and whine and throw hissyfits over something that isn't [I]the exact specific thing that they personally wanted[/I]. There seems to be this entire community around TF2 where all people are interested in is complaining about everything that's in (or isn't in) every update. No matter what Valve do, the same group of people are there, ready to throw tantrums over it. I'm really tired of it. Bring something interesting or new to the discussion.[/QUOTE] At the other end of the spectrum are people who trip over themselves to defend shit like Duck Tokens, lack of content for TF2, or whatever fuck up of the month you want to rationalize. People who think that any criticism against something is a personal attack against both the party that did it, and themselves for some reason. Valve isn't infallible, and while in many ways they are one of (if not the best) companies in the industry, it makes their fuckups that more visible, and hence more of a discussion point. If you think it's unfair for people to criticize them, you could always wait till the next TF2 major update six months from now to post again, Merry Smissmas.

[QUOTE=Youme;48086259]Not people who don't want to pay it, the people who run to forums to complain about it, who scream and whine and throw hissyfits over something that isn't [I]the exact specific thing that they personally wanted[/I]. There seems to be this entire community around TF2 where all people are interested in is complaining about everything that's in (or isn't in) every update. No matter what Valve do, the same group of people are there, ready to throw tantrums over it. I'm really tired of it. Bring something interesting or new to the discussion.[/QUOTE] No one is blaming you, people have an issue with Valve for cutting the cp_snowplow map so late into its development. The ducks were just a catalyst for that frustration, nothing more. Don't blame the community for not being happy with buying micro-transactions. However no one has any issue supporting the community and the people who worked on the short. Supporting the community is half the reason why people buy hats in the first place, if we had known the ducks were just that, then I don't think it would have been as bad. The issues arise, when we heard Valve cut the map that's been in development for a long time, with the regular playtesting and effort put in, that's all. Your acting aggressive, please don't take the complaints personally.

[QUOTE=Youme;48086259]Not people who don't want to pay it, the people who run to forums to complain about it, who scream and whine and throw hissyfits over something that isn't [I]the exact specific thing that they personally wanted[/I]. There seems to be this entire community around TF2 where all people are interested in is complaining about everything that's in (or isn't in) every update. No matter what Valve do, the same group of people are there, ready to throw tantrums over it. I'm really tired of it. Bring something interesting or new to the discussion.[/QUOTE] I honestly feel that if Valve had decided to ship Snowplow the negativity towards the duck journals and the EotL update in general wouldn't have existed for the most part. Yes there will always be people who are unhappy or expecting too much and will be let down, but 2014 had been a pretty light year on content and 2013 wasn't great either, so it wasn't unreasonable that people were looking forward to a new map and to be very disappointed/let down when Valve decided not to ship it. I know I felt the disappointment too. I had a ton of fun playtesting Snowplow with you guys and while I didn't think it was perfect I thought it was a fun map in a game mode that badly needed a new official map (and I honestly found it more enjoyable then Cactus Canyon or Asteroid). I honestly never felt as angry at the TF team/Valve as when I found out that Valve decided not to ship Snowplow. Eventually I did mellow and I bought a Duck Journal to support the EotL team, but if there was a way for me to directly donate to the EotL team without Valve getting any of it I know I would have done that. It's not just here that I hear people complain about the lack of gameplay content and the greater focus on cosmetics recently. You see it on Reddit, you see it on SPUF. Sometimes I ask the random people on servers I'm playing on what they think and I hear the same complaints. I think the duck journal just brought the cosmetic over gameplay content feelings to a head with the community. Hoestly I hope some good came of it and Valve will focus more on gameplay affecting content for future major updates. Valve has generated a lot of good will with the TF2 community over the past 8 years but a couple of bad mistkes and updates can cause them to loose a lot of that goodwill that they have built up. Honestly it's in their best interest to keep the community happy, a happy community buys more items in TF2 and Valve makes more money.

[QUOTE=Youme;48079079]Not at liberty to give an exact number but it's considerably higher. More ducks were sold [I]in 6 weeks[/I] than Hoodoo stamps [I]during its entire lifetime[/I][/QUOTE] Nothing personal but I would never buy a hoodoo stamp so that's not surprising.

[QUOTE=Youme;48086259]Not people who don't want to pay it, the people who run to forums to complain about it, who scream and whine and throw hissyfits over something that isn't [I]the exact specific thing that they personally wanted[/I]. [/QUOTE] does this count as strawmaning? listen, the same reason you felt the need to whine about people who whine is the same reason why people come to the forum to whine. because it's the impulsive thing to do, and there's space for it. doesn't mean thats all a specific group of people do, whoever that group is and wherever they supposedly exist according to you. stop taking it personally. people complain about updates in tf2 because they love tf2. i call it criticism, and it's a healthy thing for both the consumer and the producer of that product.

It would be weird but unsurprising if there wasn't a blog post tonight.

[QUOTE=ComodoreBluth;48086517]I honestly feel that if Valve had decided to ship Snowplow the negativity towards the duck journals and the EotL update in general wouldn't have existed for the most part. Yes there will always be people who are unhappy or expecting too much and will be let down, but 2014 had been a pretty light year on content and 2013 wasn't great either, so it wasn't unreasonable that people were looking forward to a new map and to be very disappointed/let down when Valve decided not to ship it. I know I felt the disappointment too. I had a ton of fun playtesting Snowplow with you guys and while I didn't think it was perfect I thought it was a fun map in a game mode that badly needed a new official map (and I honestly found it more enjoyable then Cactus Canyon or Asteroid). I honestly never felt as angry at the TF team/Valve as when I found out that Valve decided not to ship Snowplow. Eventually I did mellow and I bought a Duck Journal to support the EotL team, but if there was a way for me to directly donate to the EotL team without Valve getting any of it I know I would have done that. It's not just here that I hear people complain about the lack of gameplay content and the greater focus on cosmetics recently. You see it on Reddit, you see it on SPUF. Sometimes I ask the random people on servers I'm playing on what they think and I hear the same complaints. I think the duck journal just brought the cosmetic over gameplay content feelings to a head with the community. Hoestly I hope some good came of it and Valve will focus more on gameplay affecting content for future major updates. Valve has generated a lot of good will with the TF2 community over the past 8 years but a couple of bad mistkes and updates can cause them to loose a lot of that goodwill that they have built up. Honestly it's in their best interest to keep the community happy, a happy community buys more items in TF2 and Valve makes more money.[/QUOTE] I just wanted people to play an attack defend map besides dustbowl :(. The only good AD maps are gorge and gravel pit if theres a medic. Am I the only one who enjoys this game mode?

[QUOTE=poptart TF2;48087335]I just wanted people to play an attack defend map besides dustbowl :(. The only good AD maps are gorge and gravel pit if theres a medic. Am I the only one who enjoys this game mode?[/QUOTE] Gullywash is a good AD Map according to valve.

[QUOTE=Freeze;48087161]It would be weird but unsurprising if there wasn't a blog post tonight.[/QUOTE] It's amusing to see how the most optimistics are coming back to reality.

[QUOTE=Drury;48086554]Nothing personal but I would never buy a hoodoo stamp so that's not surprising.[/QUOTE] Would you buy a Poodoo stamp?

[QUOTE=HiddenShadow;48087469]Would you buy a Poodoo stamp?[/QUOTE] I would buy a poo journal that makes fart noises, if only to equip it with the fat engie while relaxing

[QUOTE=Radaghast;48087461]It's amusing to see how the most optimistics are coming back to reality.[/QUOTE]Excuse me? I can be optimistic about future updates and the game in general (which I am) without having unrealistic expectations on how soon they will arrive.

Well TF2 has become an eSport: [url]http://www.razerzone.com/arena[/url]

[QUOTE=cirlo;48087731]Well TF2 has become an eSport: [url]http://www.razerzone.com/arena[/url][/QUOTE] that confirms competitive beta is very soon, right???

Speaking of the competitive beta, am I the only one worried about it? TF2 is a (mostly) casual game, and I don't want comp-related updates taking precedence over regular ones.

[QUOTE=165your4;48088098]Speaking of the competitive beta, am I the only one worried about it? TF2 is a (mostly) casual game, and I don't want comp-related updates taking precedence over[B] regular ones[/B].[/QUOTE] So you'd rather want no updates?

[QUOTE=Rumia;48088130]So you'd rather want no updates?[/QUOTE] Having no gameplay updates would be better than having weapons be balanced for what is essentially one gamemode, it'd be like changing weapon stats throughout the whole game to center around mvm balance.

[QUOTE=SirWubbles;48088187]Having no gameplay updates would be better than having weapons be balanced for what is essentially one gamemode, it'd be like changing weapon stats throughout the whole game to center around mvm balance.[/QUOTE] who knows maybe valve will actually make weapons right for once instead of completely screwing them up

the spookiest part of a full moon is the fact that the game gets an update, am I right? :v:

[QUOTE=cirlo;48087731]Well TF2 has become an eSport: [url]http://www.razerzone.com/arena[/url][/QUOTE] What exactly does this mean?

[QUOTE=165your4;48088098]Speaking of the competitive beta, am I the only one worried about it? TF2 is a (mostly) casual game, and I don't want comp-related updates taking precedence over regular ones.[/QUOTE] I think it's time that valve focuses on the non-casual part of TF2 for once

[QUOTE=165your4;48088098]Speaking of the competitive beta, am I the only one worried about it? TF2 is a (mostly) casual game, and I don't want comp-related updates taking precedence over regular ones.[/QUOTE] well doing what theyve been doing now has lead to the bfb and loch so.

We haven't even gotten a crate in the past 6 months. That's so bizarre to me, do they understand the free money they're missing?

[QUOTE=165your4;48088098]Speaking of the competitive beta, am I the only one worried about it? TF2 is a (mostly) casual game, and I don't want comp-related updates taking precedence over regular ones.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=SirWubbles;48088187]Having no gameplay updates would be better than having weapons be balanced for what is essentially one gamemode, it'd be like changing weapon stats throughout the whole game to center around mvm balance.[/QUOTE] should there really be such a gap between "casual tf2" and "competitive tf2" in the first place? if they're so different as games that they can be compared to the difference between standard tf2 and mvm, then something might not be quite right. i've heard that the competitive format used in the matchmaking probably won't have any class limits or class-based matchmaking since it would make it harder to find a match, so maybe it'll bridge the gap a bit?

[QUOTE=TwoYearLurker;48088476]should there really be such a gap between "casual tf2" and "competitive tf2" in the first place? if they're so different as games that they can be compared to the difference between standard tf2 and mvm, then something might not be quite right. i've heard that the competitive format used in the matchmaking probably won't have any class limits or class-based matchmaking since it would make it harder to find a match, so maybe it'll bridge the gap a bit?[/QUOTE] Noones going to take matchmaking seriously if its a 6 v 6 composed of 3 snipers, 2 spies, and a scout

[QUOTE=TwoYearLurker;48088476]should there really be such a gap between "casual tf2" and "competitive tf2" in the first place? if they're so different as games that they can be compared to the difference between standard tf2 and mvm, then something might not be quite right. i've heard that the competitive format used in the matchmaking probably won't have any class limits or class-based matchmaking since it would make it harder to find a match, so maybe it'll bridge the gap a bit?[/QUOTE] casual and competetive players want two different things out of one game, its difficult to please both. meta sticking, serious play, comms and strats aren't something I see in pubs and I don't see rancho relaxos in prem so

[QUOTE=Rumia;48088130]So you'd rather want no updates?[/QUOTE] If the updates don't affect me or the majority of the community, then it's basically the same as having no updates.

[QUOTE=Bynine;48088460]We haven't even gotten a crate in the past 6 months. That's so bizarre to me, do they understand the free money they're missing?[/QUOTE] they have nothing to make crates of because it takes too much attention and effort no matter how many automatic handling systems they put in place

You can influence and maintain interest in both the competitive AND casual audience at the same time once mathmaking is created. It's called proper rebalances and new maps Both of which we've continually had a severe lack of for quite some time

i love to see rebalancing on items, but most of the time buffs seem to go to the things that don't need it. The Reserve Shooter buff and the Loch n Load change felt really unnecessary to me. They should be buffing or changing existing items that are rarely used and underpowered, and if the item was extremely shit already then I'd be fine with seeing a complete rework. The Short Circuit change for example made it feel like a totally new weapon and I liked that.