[QUOTE=GastricTank;23883964]Alot of spies underestimate the revolver, and truth be told, I get more points shooting and retreating than I do backstabs. It is the primary weapon for a reason.[/QUOTE]
It's actually considered his secondary weapon. I found that out the hard way trying after trying to use a primary token to craft an Ambassador.
But that is only for crafting purposes.
Sandvich cooldown needs to be removed, it was fine before.
[QUOTE=GastricTank;23883964]I never said that. He is good for assisting others to kill the Sentry. Spy is not weak at all, either. Being able to sneak behind enemy lines, taking out key targets, and having an amazing but strongly underrated primary weapon ( And by this, I mean the Default, not the Ambassador ) does not a weak class make.
Alot of spies underestimate the revolver, and truth be told, I get more points shooting and retreating than I do backstabs. It is the primary weapon for a reason.[/QUOTE]
I understand the Revolver has the potential to kill, but honestly more than half the classes will destroy a Spy with a revolver out unless they've been damaged beforehand. The Spy relies too much on factors like deception to be efficient at all times, adding things like the Homewrecker's sapper removal just makes playing Spy a bit harder.
Honestly the Spy is the hardest class in the game to play as. He doesn't need to be much harder. The Homewrecker could have some other advantage completely unrelated to sapper removal.
Afterburn is really underpowered, valve should buff it so it lasts a full 30 seconds and does double the damage per second it does now amirite? Also the fire should explode on contact
[QUOTE=EvilShadow777;23884889]Honestly the Spy is the hardest class in the game to play as. He doesn't need to be much harder.[/QUOTE]
This is true, but Homewrecker does come with a price. Unless you stay with your Engineer-buddy all the time, it won't come useful in other situations. I don't think alot of the Pyros out there have the patience to do this, unlike myself.
Remove all content updates.
[QUOTE=GastricTank;23885213]This is true, but Homewrecker does come with a price. Unless you stay with your Engineer-buddy all the time, it won't come useful in other situations. I don't think alot of the Pyros out there have the patience to do this, unlike myself.[/QUOTE]
2 Engineers behaving as buddies is one thing, the Spy's main counter getting something else that counters the Spy is another. Honestly with the Homewrecker and any Flamethrower the Pyro is a pure Spy counter.
It really devalues the class as a whole since someone can just pick Pyro and ruin it for you.
I can pretty much piss off every guy on a server when I'm Homewrecker pyro and we have a lot of Engies. My fire pushes them away, and I have a shotgun to kill any stray aways and a Sapper-remover. In short:I'm unkillable if the engie has a dispenser and I play it smart.
It's rather annoying, but realize no one even uses this item thinking it's UP, or use it on offense/no engies.
The Pyro has always been the Spy's counter. Most of the time, Spies get screwed over whenever there is a Pyro in the picture, so let us just look at it like this:
Pyro is defending with Homewrecker, completely ruins your plans. Spy obviously wont work, so don't be afraid to switch classes to something more useful in this situation, such as a Demoman or Medic.
Well I honestly don't think there is any point in time where a class should be completely shut out. Before the Homewrecker Pyros were annoying, they could reveal and kill you. But you could sneak around them or even kill them. Now even if you manage to sneak past them your work can be foiled by them.
All that effort spent sneaking behind enemy lines, stabbing the Engineer and sapping his stuff, just for a Pyro to smack the sappers off until the Engie revives.
I mean sure, there's times a class counters another class. Like a Targe + Eyelander Demoman being countered by a Natascha Heavy. But it's not a hard counter, the Demoman still has a large outlet to kill the Heavy, the Spy doesn't get that opportunity most of the time vs the Pyro.
[QUOTE=Luafox;23876856]I don't get why the compression blast should affect übers when sandman doesn't.[/QUOTE]
Realistically:
If your wearing a big suit of armor, will you even really feel a baseball? no. Can a wind tunnel still knock you on your ass?Yes .
Game play:
Sure, A compression blast can send enemies flying and make an uber useless, but people can still fight back. With the sandman, depending on how far away the ball was hit from, half an uber can be wasted with no chance of fighting back.
[QUOTE=Raiderz;23886155]Realistically:
If your wearing a big suit of armor, will you even really feel a baseball? no. Can a wind tunnel still knock you on your ass?Yes .
Game play:
Sure, A compression blast can send enemies flying and make an uber useless, but people can still fight back. With the sandman, depending on how far away the ball was hit from, half an uber can be wasted with no chance of fighting back.[/QUOTE]
TF2 isn't overly realistic. I really think that a Sandman ball should stun ubers but it shouldn't go over 3 seconds.
Invincible = INVINCIBLE. No baseballs.
[QUOTE=GastricTank;23886301]Invincible = INVINCIBLE. No baseballs.[/QUOTE]
Then there shouldn't be juggling with the CB or explosives. I can imagine some hulking giant being a bit phased by a baseball to the head. I think it should stun but be a weaker stun.
Bah. Being invincible doesn't mean that you are as solid as a rock and unable to be pushed. It just means you can't be hurt, so really, being juggled while Ubered makes sense.
The stun wouldn't damage obviously, but it would phase. I think it should be shortened from the normal time though. A baseball hit from afar is enough force to knock someone backward, so I really think it'd be enough force to phase someone even if they just feel pressure.
.....then again why are we trying to apply realism to TF2?
I'm tired of people thinking the huntsman requires more luck than precise aiming and tracking. Sure, you can get a kill because a scout doublejumps like an idiot in front of you and call it luck, but most of my shots (and kills) with the bow are fucking precisely calculated. You can't throw darts everywhere, you have less than 20 ammo!
The Huntsman is actually a pretty balanced weapon. It has the same potential as a Sniper rifle but it's a projectile, has a larger hitbox, and fires faster. Instead of hitscan you have to rely upon aiming and leading, or you can spam like an idiot and get minimal results. But overall it's balanced.
My [b]opinion[/b]:
natascha is OP
razorback is UP
FaN is slightly UP
dalakohs is UP
That's all I can think of right off the top of my head. The huntsman is fine, it gives the sniper the ability to serve multiple purposes on the battlefield and being killed by a sniper who is out of kukri range/under rifle range just makes people rage and yell "OP OP OP" because they aren't used to it.
PS Don't group me in with the people who get killed by something and rant about how OP/UP they are. I have tons of fun playing TF2, I just think some things need to be fixed.
Natascha is really debatable. I for one feel it's just fine as is.
The FaN isn't UP at all, people just aren't used to using it or just hate on it because it's identified as a noob weapon. After taking out a Soldier + Medic Combo using Crit-a-Cola + Force-a-Nature I really can't place it as underpowered.
The Razorback I actually feel is balanced, but very situational. You have to position yourself where you aren't in threat of other enemies or other Snipers while still being near teammates or a sentry. If used right, you are untouchable by a Spy until he eliminates all nearby threats, upon which you have the opportunity to Shiv him in the face.
If you're close enough to back stab a sniper without him noticing but he has the razorback, you might as well shoot him in the face. Especially if you have the ambassador.
That's the trick about the Razorback, you can be shot and killed by either revolver if you don't have some kind of back-up. You want to align yourself somewhere where the Spy would be a moron to try and kill you, like near a sentry in a corridor that lets you see into an open area. That way if the Spy tries to kill you, the sentry kills him. However, if he ignores you, if you catch onto him you can kill him yourself.
The FaN is the most powerful weapon at point blank range, how can it be UP?
[QUOTE](0.9x damage per pellet times 1.2x amount of pellets is 1.08 times normal damage)[/QUOTE]
That means that getting melee-range close to an enemy and unloading your FaN on them will do 1.08 times the damage of the normal scatterguns' in less time, and if that isn't enough to kill them, it will send them flying and make them confused just enough time for your mates to finish him.
[QUOTE]Base: 5.4 per pellet
[B]Max Ramp Up: 175% (9.45 damage per pellet)[/B]
Max Fall Off: 50% (2.7 damage per pellet)
[B]Pellet Count: 12[/B]
Point Blank: ~92-113
Medium Range: ~11-43
Long Range: ~3-11
[B]Mini-Crit: 7.29 per pellet[/B]
Critical Hit: 16.2 per pellet[/QUOTE]
Provided all pellets hit target (point blank), A very lucky shot can deal [B]up to[/B] 133 damage. A minicrit shot [B]will[/B] deal 87 damage, and a crit [B]will[/B] deal 194 damage. 87*2= 174, so if you take critacola and hit an enemy point blank, you can kill[B] 6 out of the 9 classes[/B] in just two hits. And if not all the pellets connect, you'll leave them horribly injured [B]and[/B] they will be flying through the air.
All data extracted from the TF2 wiki.
[QUOTE]Natascha is really debatable. I for one feel it's just fine as is.
The FaN isn't UP at all, people just aren't used to using it or just hate on it because it's identified as a noob weapon. After taking out a Soldier + Medic Combo using Crit-a-Cola + Force-a-Nature I really can't place it as underpowered.
The Razorback I actually feel is balanced, but very situational. You have to position yourself where you aren't in threat of other enemies or other Snipers while still being near teammates or a sentry. If used right, you are untouchable by a Spy until he eliminates all nearby threats, upon which you have the opportunity to Shiv him in the face.[/QUOTE]
Although the FaN does have twice the fire rate, it does little more damage than the regular scattergun and its only other pros are the target knockback and the ability to triple-jump. It's not [i]very[/i] UP, but I feel like it should pack much more punch than the scattergun up close, and much less at close-medium/medium range.
[editline]11:57PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=latin_geek;23887079]The FaN is the most powerful weapon at point blank range, how can it be UP?
That means that getting melee-range close to an enemy and unloading your FaN on them will do 1.08 times the damage of the normal scatterguns' in less time, and if that isn't enough to kill them, it will send them flying and make them confused just enough time for your mates to finish him.
Provided all pellets hit target (point blank), A very lucky shot can deal [B]up to[/B] 133 damage. A minicrit shot [B]will[/B] deal 87 damage, and a crit [B]will[/B] deal 194 damage. 87*2= 174, so if you take critacola and hit an enemy point blank, you can kill[B] 6 out of the 9 classes[/B] in just two hits. And if not all the pellets connect, you'll leave them horribly injured [B]and[/B] they will be flying through the air.
All data extracted from the TF2 wiki.[/QUOTE]
hm.
[QUOTE=Ender_Wiggin;23887080]Although the FaN does have twice the fire rate, it does little more damage than the regular scattergun and its only other pros are the target knockback and the ability to triple-jump. It's not [i]very[/i] UP, but I feel like it should pack much more punch than the scattergun up close, and much less at close-medium/medium range.[/QUOTE]
But it does, that's exactly how it works right now. More pellets with less damage, meaning you do more damage at close range, less at mid range. If you use the Crit-a-Cola + FaN combo you can take out an overhealed Heavy with a couple 2-shot meatshots.
I think Natascha and Sandman were and are balanced by the small amount of players who utilize them. Maybe it's just the servers I play on, but I rarely ever see any Heavy use Natascha, and the Sandman nerf baffled me because back in the Scout update, it was days before I was even hit with a ball.
[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;23887389]Eyelander/the axe and the Charging Targe are pissing me off. They're insanely OP.[/QUOTE]
They're fine.
My old quips these days:
The huntsman's arrow hitbox being a tiny bit smaller. Make the box shaft-sized, not as far-reaching as the feathers.
Force-of-Nature having a slight downside back again. Longer reload, lesser damage? The scattergun only seems to be better against groups now, which isn't the average scout's goal.
Snipers having reverse fall-off. I know a bullet's a bullet, but beating an unsuspecting sniper to death with a melee weapon to only end up dying to a fully-charged shot (be huntsman or rifle) that they whipped over my way; it's annoying.
The way people play them these days, Pyro and Demomen could have the offense and defense roles reversed. I don't see many offensive pyros ever penetrate far into a base, and the only defensive demoman I see are the campy-types (which can be done with any class, really.)
[QUOTE=Doom14;23888046]The way people play them these days, Pyro and Demomen could have the offense and defense roles reversed. I don't see many offensive pyros ever penetrate far into a base, and the only defensive demoman I see are the campy-types (which can be done with any class, really.)[/QUOTE]
The way I see it, soldier, demoman, pyro, heavy, etc.. arent offense or defense classes, they're [i]combat[/i] classes. They serve purposes on the offensive and defensive sides of the battlefield.
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