TF2 Emporium 61: Smoking Guns - Games

Why would you want to stab [I][B]downwards[/B][/I], though? It's easier to see coming, easier to dodge or deflect, and you're less likely to deal meaningful damage. If you're seriously fighting with a knife, the point is to either pierce a vital organ or inflict heavy bleeding. Attacking downwards doesn't accomplish that - you hit a lot of bone in the shoulders and ribcage, and wounds in the upper torso don't bleed as much as elsewhere. You want to stab low, angling up. Gut wounds are nasty - they bleed a lot, are cripplingly painful, and are hard to heal. And if you do hit the ribcage, instead of slipping under it, you have a far better chance of slipping between ribs with a forward stab angled slightly upward than with a downward cleave. It's also a shorter distance to the vital organs at those sorts of angles, meaning you don't need to penetrate as deeply. And again, harder to see coming and harder to dodge or deflect - and even if you "miss" you can still hit nearby where you wanted and do nearly the same damage. Oh The only real upshot to attacking downwards might be hitting the neck, but it's a smaller target that's hard to hit - plus, you can always aim for the neck with an forward lunge, or a slash from either side, with equal or better effectiveness if you do hit. If you're not convinced, look at most of the major martial arts that employ knife fighting - very few use reversed grips for knives.

[QUOTE=G. Verloren;46954675]Why would you want to stab [I][B]downwards[/B][/I], though? It's easier to see coming, easier to dodge or deflect, and you're less likely to deal meaningful damage. If you're seriously fighting with a knife, the point is to either pierce a vital organ or inflict heavy bleeding. Attacking downwards doesn't accomplish that - you hit a lot of bone in the shoulders and ribcage, and wounds in the upper torso don't bleed as much as elsewhere. You want to stab low, angling up. Gut wounds are nasty - they bleed a lot, are cripplingly painful, and are hard to heal. And if you do hit the ribcage, instead of slipping under it, you have a far better chance of slipping between ribs with a forward stab angled slightly upward than with a downward cleave. It's also a shorter distance to the vital organs at those sorts of angles, meaning you don't need to penetrate as deeply. And again, harder to see coming and harder to dodge or deflect - and even if you "miss" you can still hit nearby where you wanted and do nearly the same damage. The only real upshot to attacking downwards might be hitting the neck, but it's a smaller target that's hard to hit - plus, you can always aim for the neck with an forward lunge, or a slash from either side, with equal or better effectiveness if you do hit. If you're not convinced, look at most of the major martial arts that employ knife fighting - very few use reversed grips for knives.[/QUOTE] But vidja gaem.

[QUOTE=TheJukebox;46954701]But vidja gaem.[/QUOTE] So, like, pro MLG 360 noscope airshot?

[QUOTE=G. Verloren;46954348]but it's not really suitable for Soldier because even though he's [I][B]not[/B][/I] actually a professional, he wants to [I][B]believe[/B][/I] he is.[/QUOTE] If anything, that's an argument [I]for[/I] having him hold it like that. Do you think a moron like Soldier is going to know that a reverse grip is not only [I]not[/I] what professional soldiers do, but also only looks cool? I wouldn't put it past him to hold it like that to try and assert his "training" [I]"Observe, maggots! This is how a [B]real[/B] killer stabs people!"[/I]

[QUOTE=G. Verloren;46954675]Why would you want to stab [I][B]downwards[/B][/I], though?[/QUOTE] [t]http://i.imgur.com/6Nsl47C.png[/t] [t]http://i.imgur.com/SeHrGXS.png[/t]

Okay, here are some shots in hlmv, and in-game. [t]http://i.imgur.com/7jULeAv.png[/t] [t]http://i.imgur.com/Qg3dB3N.png[/t] [t]http://i.imgur.com/m60GXO0.png[/t] [t]http://i.imgur.com/PncJ1L6.jpg[/t] Reload demo: [t]http://i.imgur.com/db93iaz.gif[/t] A friend of mine suggested that I use a goldmap on the gold, is this a good idea? I'm sort of on the fence, because it might look too much like an Australium weapon. Should I do this? [t]http://i.imgur.com/gOCoOUj.jpg[/t]

Hi guys :) I'm sad that I couldn't spend more time in this community, being a part of it and forging some 3D modeling skills like I wanted to. As time passes I find it even more difficult to do that so I will have to leave my only unfinished work that I think might be worth something to someone who can finish it. At the time I started making this I didn't notice anyone else doing it (even though it didn't seem much original to me, it was just something that needed to be made). [img_thumb]http://i.imgur.com/bIRQeaK.jpg[/img_thumb] [img_thumb]http://i.imgur.com/7HV4BHE.jpg[/img_thumb] [img_thumb]http://i.imgur.com/jMnskAP.png[/img_thumb] [img_thumb]http://i.imgur.com/a0fqAho.jpg[/img_thumb] It's supposed to be something close to cs go promo, a 3 or even maybe 4 part costume: 1. Helmet (with some possible addons and maybe a strapped chin strap) 2. Half face mask + gloves with knuckles 3. Bullet proof west (with a flashbang and smoke replacing grenades) This pics are very WIP! So far the only things finished are: -model,rigging,uw and ao bake of face mask + gloves (so still needs a texture and facial flex) -basic model of a helmet that needs a lower number of pollys If you're interested feel free to add me :) tl;dr: up for grabs.

[QUOTE=Mr. Jelly;46954775]If anything, that's an argument [I]for[/I] having him hold it like that. Do you think a moron like Soldier is going to know that a reverse grip is not only [I]not[/I] what professional soldiers do, but also only looks cool? I wouldn't put it past him to hold it like that to try and assert his "training" [I]"Observe, maggots! This is how a [B]real[/B] killer stabs people!"[/I][/QUOTE] I dunno, Soldier's kinda a simple, straightforward guy. I think he'd be confused by someone wanting to use a reverse grip. [I]"Remember, maggots! The pointy end goes in the enemy! Not the flat end!"[/I] Plus, he gets all his ideas from the military - and when have you ever seen a picture of a traditional soldier holding a knife in a reverse grip? If it's not something you'd see Uncle Sam doing on a recruitment poster, chances are Soldier isn't going to do it. Heck, practically the only time you ever see a reverse grip in a military context is as a mark of barbarism and treachery in propaganda images! [t]http://www.artic.edu/aic/collections/citi/resources/Rsrc_001678.jpg[/t] [t]http://olive-drab.com/gallery/nazi_propaganda_posters/gp0123.jpg[/t] [t]http://dsmy2muqb7t4m.cloudfront.net/articles/2010/inspir_propagandaposters/thisenemy.jpg[/t] [t]http://images.linnlive.com/1e037c81da387d8e4d1c2557d0a46f2b/b1ad7eb8-8f4c-4cd0-87d9-27f42c5e3369.jpg[/t] [t]http://propaganda2a.weebly.com/uploads/2/3/8/6/23864355/5448915_orig.jpg?342[/t] ------ [QUOTE=Grandzeit;46954804][t]http://i.imgur.com/6Nsl47C.png[/t] [t]http://i.imgur.com/SeHrGXS.png[/t][/QUOTE] Touché, but that's backstabbing - you're trying to get between the vertebrae and sever the spinal cord, so a downard thrust actually works there.

[QUOTE=G. Verloren;46954858]I dunno, Soldier's kinda a simple, straightforward guy. I think he'd be confused by someone wanting to use a reverse grip. [I]"Remember, maggots! The pointy end goes in the enemy! Not the flat end!"[/I][/QUOTE] I don't really think he'd be confused, the concept of 'smash something pointy downwards into something else' is a pretty easy one to grasp. Soldier is the kinda guy that's going to want to hit something with all his strength, and a reverse grip is the grip that's going to let you hit something with all your brute force [QUOTE=G. Verloren;46954858]Plus, he gets all his ideas from the military - and when have you ever seen a picture of a traditional soldier holding a knife in a reverse grip? If it's not something you'd see Uncle Sam doing on a recruitment poster, chances are Soldier isn't going to do it. [/QUOTE] How often do you see a picture of a traditional soldier holding a knife, period, especially in the mid-20th century? Everything was guns and guns and guns and bayonets

[QUOTE=Mr. Jelly;46954925]How often do you see a picture of a traditional soldier holding a knife, period, especially in the mid-20th century? Everything was guns and guns and guns and bayonets[/QUOTE] When you do find images of Allied soldiers with knives, most of them are held in a "hammer grip" or "natural grip". [t]http://www.weapons-universe.com/Brass-Knuckles-Blog/Images/US_Mark_One_Trench_Knife-Soldier.jpg[/t] [t]http://olive-drab.com/images/commando_training.jpg[/t] [t]http://23aa11d28fcf2eb980f2-650f7b390294ee3bc134c877ae8a4be4.r52.cf1.rackcdn.com/2011.065.1014_1.590x590.marked.jpg[/t] Far more prevalent, of course, were the bayonets you mention - but remember, a bayonet [I][B]is[/B][/I] a form of knife, and typically replaced other knives entirely in the gear of most grunts.

Having had formal weapons training, using a reverse grip on a knife is indeed far inferior and less efficient versus holding it normally. Luckily though, this is a videogame, especially one where a katana and an unbroken bottle do the same amount of damage. G. Verloren you remind me of those people who must go to any lengths to correct anyone who is wrong on the internet. Will you please shut up now?

People keep saying "It's a video game" as if that justifies anything and everything, but it simply doesn't. My argument is that I feel the reverse grip doesn't fit Soldier's theme and aesthetic, and I explained why. I also explained that I think it works on Demoman, because it [I][B]does[/B][/I] fit his theme. There's also the argument about how it doesn't fit Soldier's viewmodel and animations, which I seconded. [I]"This is a videgame"[/I] is in no way a counter for either of those arguments. If you don't want to take part in this discussion, no one's making you. If you don't want to read my posts, you don't have to. But I'm going to say my piece, and you have absolutely no right to tell me to shut up, so kindly refrain from doing so in the future please.

quick concept for a medic beard, up for grabs [IMG]http://puu.sh/eEKs3/8f3700f2ab.png[/IMG]

[QUOTE=G. Verloren;46955228]People keep saying "It's a video game" as if that justifies anything and everything, but it simply doesn't. My argument is that I feel the reverse grip doesn't fit Soldier's theme and aesthetic, and I explained why. I also explained that I think it works on Demoman, because it [I][B]does[/B][/I] fit his theme. There's also the argument about how it doesn't fit Soldier's viewmodel and animations, which I seconded. [I]"This is a videgame"[/I] is in no way a counter for either of those arguments. If you don't want to take part in this discussion, no one's making you. If you don't want to read my posts, you don't have to. But I going to say my piece, and you have absolutely no right to tell me to shut up, so kindly refrain from doing so in the future please.[/QUOTE] Can you guys just stop? We don't need multiple pages arguing about how to hold a bloody knife.

[QUOTE=NeoDement;46950960][url=http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=376282649&savesuccess=1][img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/900111/dictatorposter4emp.jpg[/img][/url] [url=http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=376273903][img]http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/37486795746342017/49342F35E4BA48B3003CFA0CDD812FED3A7EB4F6/[/img][/url] [url=http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=376274358][img]http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/37486795746345839/E3DCAB8921C78E3CE7B4EA0BD5745F1B7047F047/[/img][/url] Little 2 item allclass set by Square and me! Vote em up if you like em![/QUOTE] Mod versions of these items are now up! Download links are up on the respective workshop pages.

Where is Snowshoe and his boiler-suit scout when you need them?

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/3Hqg4uH.png[/IMG] [B]Doesn't quite fit the TF2 style but then again not a lot does anymore.[/B] Honestly i'm just a die hard fan hoping someone with the skill sets and the interest in the Jak And Daxter franchise will make it, mainly for mod purposes, with the optimism it could get into the game too. [t]http://static2.gamespot.com/uploads/original/mig/1/2/9/5/621295-919901_20041115_016.jpg[/t]

[URL="http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=376834119"][IMG]http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/37486795749363001/29AEBECD93C2C76CC87C08C77940086C01076C13/[/IMG][/URL] [URL="http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=376834119"][B][U]Swingin' Sniper[/U][/B][/URL] "Right on! Let's go, mate! We gotta boogie!" [URL="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=376809725"][IMG]http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/37486795749189947/1B8A452393073CE7D725B08D6732550DC2FB184C/268x268.resizedimage[/IMG][/URL] [URL="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=376809725"][B][U]Stunner of '69[/U][/B][/URL] This is the 60s. Anything goes, baby. [URL="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=376818497"][IMG]http://cloud-2.steamusercontent.com/ugc/37486795749223393/EE7EA6902BBBFD6E77DD1BD5F8A712DAD8B9707B/268x268.resizedimage[/IMG][/URL] [URL="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=376818497"][B][U]Groovy Getup[/U][/B][/URL] If you see a sharply dressed bloke, that's me. So don't shoot! [URL="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=376823023"][IMG]http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/37486795749240987/345316F21665EBF2025AFB881F1F2940E1BCEE5D/268x268.resizedimage[/IMG][/URL] [URL="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=376823023"][B][U]Boogie Bell-bottoms[/U][/B][/URL] Hey, got any spare socks? I need some padding. Models by me, texture stuff by Gadget and concept by BonJons. Mods will come :)

[QUOTE=BonJons;46955390] [B]Doesn't quite fit the TF2 style but then again not a lot does anymore.[/B][/QUOTE] Respect the artstyle. Don't use it as an excuse to shoehorn items based on other games in, even as mods.

[QUOTE=Rajikaru;46955544]Respect the artstyle.[/QUOTE] I agree, i'm just a little optimistic for a mod release.

[QUOTE=Rajikaru;46955544]Respect the artstyle. Don't use it as an excuse to shoehorn items based on other games in, even as mods.[/QUOTE] not even as mods? now that i disagree with

[QUOTE=BonJons;46955390] [B]Doesn't quite fit the TF2 style but then again not a lot does anymore.[/B] [/QUOTE] Nothing in-game is as unfitting as this.

[QUOTE=NeoDement;46955556]not even as mods? now that i disagree with[/QUOTE] Making mods? It's fine, there are fucking pony-replacing-merc mods. Asking somebody to design items you want as mods? That's another story.

[IMG]http://puu.sh/eETV9/b004dd9108.png[/IMG] not many items go with sober stuntman, heres one

[QUOTE=Flubbman;46955535][URL="http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=376834119"][IMG]http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/37486795749284503/3CA8FF8CB7D4C3A908326AB4C20EEF4A7642E1FB/[/IMG][/URL] [URL="http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=376834119"][B][U]Swingin' Sniper[/U][/B][/URL] "Right on! Let's go, mate! We gotta boogie!" [URL="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=376809725"][IMG]http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/37486795749189947/1B8A452393073CE7D725B08D6732550DC2FB184C/268x268.resizedimage[/IMG][/URL] [URL="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=376809725"][B][U]Stunner of '69[/U][/B][/URL] This is the 60s. Anything goes, baby. [URL="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=376818497"][IMG]http://cloud-2.steamusercontent.com/ugc/37486795749223393/EE7EA6902BBBFD6E77DD1BD5F8A712DAD8B9707B/268x268.resizedimage[/IMG][/URL] [URL="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=376818497"][B][U]Groovy Garment[/U][/B][/URL] If you see a sharply dressed bloke, that's me. So don't shoot! [URL="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=376823023"][IMG]http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/37486795749240987/345316F21665EBF2025AFB881F1F2940E1BCEE5D/268x268.resizedimage[/IMG][/URL] [URL="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=376823023"][B][U]Boogie Bell-bottoms[/U][/B][/URL] Hey, got any spare socks? I need some padding. Models by me, texture stuff by Gadget and concept by BonJons. Mods will come :)[/QUOTE] I would change the gold stuff to Cream Spirit color scheme or retain them in gold for RED but change the color in BLU Team to be Silver. Yes, it may be paintable and you can simply paint it yourself, but what if Valve decides to change the color or not add paintabillity and still keep the Yellowish design?

[QUOTE=Flubbman;46955535] [URL="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=376809725"][IMG]http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/37486795749189947/1B8A452393073CE7D725B08D6732550DC2FB184C/268x268.resizedimage[/IMG][/URL] [URL="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=376809725"][B][U]Stunner of '69[/U][/B][/URL] This is the 60s. Anything goes, baby. [/QUOTE] For some strange reason, this reminds me of Kevin Bloody Wilson

[t]http://i.imgur.com/k0T5AkX.png[/t] Jazz Sniper, after seeing Expiration Date again. Also, are there any references I could get of the characters from the back? I feel bad going into Gmod for them as they never turn out well. [URL="http://imgur.com/a/8tBYJ"]My other concepts.[/URL]

[QUOTE=BonJons;46955390][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/3Hqg4uH.png[/IMG] [B]Doesn't quite fit the TF2 style but then again not a lot does anymore.[/B] Honestly i'm just a die hard fan hoping someone with the skill sets and the interest in the Jak And Daxter franchise will make it, mainly for mod purposes, with the optimism it could get into the game too. [t]http://static2.gamespot.com/uploads/original/mig/1/2/9/5/621295-919901_20041115_016.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] The art looks good, but the Scout is completely clean comparing the other image you posted. You can go well beyond by adding his long ears, his scarf, gloves and boots, or other equipment from the game you got based on it (I never played, so I don't know what else the game has). One shoulder does not look really good. The glasses are supposed to represent each team color or it's red and blue for both teams? The artistic drawing is O.K., but it's currently way too clean (that doesn't mean you should add too much, you need to find a good balance). My opinion would be an item for the whole head (Hair, eyebrows, goggles and ears), an item for the chest (shoulders, gloves, etc.), and an item for pants and boots. May be too much stuff for a item to the workshop, so this may look better as a mod, but that doesn't mean it can be uploaded to the workshop, although Valve don't like too much stuff on an item (Mustachioned Mann and Teutonic Toque, for example).

These were the more subtle colors I had set up which are not as distracting from the Sniper's color scheme. Should we use them instead? [t]http://manschitz.com/projects/tf2/preview_discosniper2.jpg[/t]

[QUOTE=gabrielwoj;46955840]The art looks good, but the Scout is completely clean comparing the other image you posted. You can go well beyond by adding his long ears, his scarf, gloves and boots, or other equipment from the game you got based on it (I never played, so I don't know what else the game has). One shoulder does not look really good. The glasses are supposed to represent each team color or it's red and blue for both teams? The artistic drawing is O.K., but it's currently way too clean (that doesn't mean you should add too much, you need to find a good balance). My opinion would be an item for the whole head (Hair, eyebrows, goggles and ears), an item for the chest (shoulders, gloves, etc.), and an item for pants and boots. May be too much stuff for a item to the workshop, so this may look better as a mod, but that doesn't mean it can be uploaded to the workshop, although Valve don't like too much stuff on an item (Mustachioned Mann and Teutonic Toque, for example).[/QUOTE] Thanks for the advance, i agree that a should commit more to a concept and add more items. Originally the head items were just the main focus (given their better art than the rest of the concept), i only added the body items as a quick mock up. As for the scarf and missing elf ears, i forgot.:v: I'll attempt to fix it up tomorrow. [editline]17th January 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Gadget | TF2M;46955931]These were the more subtle colors I had set up which are not as distracting from the Sniper's color scheme. Should we use them instead? [t]http://manschitz.com/projects/tf2/preview_discosniper2.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] For me the gold makes it a tipper set.