MvM Discussion Megathread: Do Androids Complain of Overpowered Upgrades? - Games

Not to mention when you upgrade overheal the kritzkrieg and quick fix build uber at the same rate.

One situation where I found the no-knockback mechanic of Quick Fix's übercharge useful, it's against Giant FaN Scouts.

Why not just use shield to block their shot though?

[QUOTE=Exhale;43325275]The 3 other medi guns are on par with each other but kritskrieg is the king..[/QUOTE] Kritzkrieg is the best, but only with a team who can defend the medic well enough to get ubercharges in. The shield makes you directionally invulnerable so I seriously prefer it and a faster heal rate to a slower heal rate and an invulnerability that easily causes you to get knocked around like a yo-yo. I use the quick-fix ubercharge to keep myself alive if my health drops low, or more rarely if there's 2-3 people knocked out at once with a large volume of robots surrounding their resurrectors. Vaccinator is seriously underpowered in MvM in my experience because there's often both bullets and explosions hitting you at the same time, and occasionally fire is thrown in on top of that. I have yet to see a medic who can switch fast enough to make real use of it. Other than that, you're entirely right. Kritzkrieg is still the best for general use, I just really, really hate how people assume I'm a terrible, useless medic because I personally get more use out of the Quick-Fix. It really has it's advantages to be thrown on the table, yet people act like they do not exist.

Vacc says "death isnt too much of a worry now" and keeps people alive but makes some people TOO comfortable with risking their life QF says you're there to support your team, not so much pull your own weight damage-wise, hoping to make up for this by keeping everyone alive 24/7 Uber says you're not comfortable with another medigun, you won't be able to get shield or revive any faster, and provide no damage help. "if i pop at the right time, they'll be safe to clean up" Kritz says "i am here to help and support, that does not mean you should expect me to save you. I am just upgrading your current health/damage." it does a good job of keeping people alive while also making up for your lack of damage by tripling another player's. Personally, kritz is just the best medium.

You know what would be frickin sweet and awesome? If valve removed that useless second mini-mini sentry upgrade for the wrench and replaced it with a mini dispenser. Give the team the big one, and I'd keep the second for maintaining my gun. Or place it at a fall back spot. Or place it along the tank path to keep a constant supply of ammo to the team. I want this.

[QUOTE=WnR;43327082]You know what would be frickin sweet and awesome? If valve removed that useless second mini-mini sentry upgrade for the wrench and replaced it with a mini dispenser. Give the team the big one, and I'd keep the second for maintaining my gun. Or place it at a fall back spot. Or place it along the tank path to keep a constant supply of ammo to the team. I want this.[/QUOTE] you know what else would be awesome? if they replaced the [I]gunslinger's[/I] +1 mini-sentry upgrade with a +1 [I]normal sentry[/I] upgrade, so all of those gunslinger engies in boot camp could actually be useful for once. maybe it could cost $100 more because of the gunslinger's health bonus, that would make sense. (the trick is, it would actually just replace your mini-sentry with a normal sentry, then add a disposable onto that. it's like you're not even using the gunslinger at all!)

[QUOTE=TwoYearLurker;43327529]you know what else would be awesome? if they replaced the [I]gunslinger's[/I] +1 mini-sentry upgrade with a +1 [I]normal sentry[/I] upgrade, so all of those gunslinger engies in boot camp could actually be useful for once. maybe it could cost $100 more because of the gunslinger's health bonus, that would make sense. (the trick is, it would actually just replace your mini-sentry with a normal sentry, then add a disposable onto that. it's like you're not even using the gunslinger at all!)[/QUOTE] reduce prices on all sentry-related upgrades for gunslinger engis

The issue with the vaccinator is that the uber is fucking useless when you need it the most, as one or two crits will instantly drain the uber of whatever charge you're doing Valve should disable the uber drain period imho, it would make the vaccinator a more viable alternative in both MvM and PvP

revert vac to release state remove overheal penalty holy shit fixed for both pvp & mvm

[QUOTE=TwoYearLurker;43327529]you know what else would be awesome? if they replaced the [I]gunslinger's[/I] +1 mini-sentry upgrade with a +1 [I]normal sentry[/I] upgrade, so all of those gunslinger engies in boot camp could actually be useful for once. maybe it could cost $100 more because of the gunslinger's health bonus, that would make sense. (the trick is, it would actually just replace your mini-sentry with a normal sentry, then add a disposable onto that. it's like you're not even using the gunslinger at all!)[/QUOTE] i'd prefer a +1 mini-sentry upgrade with 2 levels, that way you can have 3 mini sentries. or you know we can just do it your way, except with a level 3 mini-sentry upgrade instead.

[thumb]http://www.sourceop.com/hell-met/TF2/minicritgold.jpg[/thumb] minicrit + gold = cancer

Hardly cancer. looks closer to a terrible case of hepatitis

your opinions on the newly built Soda Popper? Is it any viable for scouting?

[QUOTE=Zannabluke;43334664]your opinions on the newly built Soda Popper? Is it any viable for scouting?[/QUOTE] The extra jumps help when going around grabbing money

[QUOTE=Zannabluke;43334664]your opinions on the newly built Soda Popper? Is it any viable for scouting?[/QUOTE] Good distraction for giants so they shopt for you and not teammates. Nothing special though. FaN is still just as viable. Popper has saved me some potentially lost money though, jumping from point A to point B with a gap inbetween

Being Scout in Mannhattan with 2 jump upgrades is good enough, tho. With the third jump upgrade you can even double jump over the lower place with the grinder, saving you some time that you would need to go over the containers.

[QUOTE=Omninerd;43335011]Being Scout in Mannhattan with 2 jump upgrades is good enough, tho. With the third jump upgrade you can even double jump over the lower place with the grinder, saving you some time that you would need to go over the containers.[/QUOTE] You can jump over those containers with FaN and a well timed triple jump, while it does also require 1 upgrade in jump height.

[QUOTE=Zannabluke;43334664]your opinions on the newly built Soda Popper? Is it any viable for scouting?[/QUOTE] It is worse than FaN now but still better than scatter.

[QUOTE=Exhale;43336797]It is worse than FaN now but still better than scatter.[/QUOTE] scout focuses on mobility primarily, so the popper is the best thing for him. i would much rather prefer my team's scout go popper than trying to push shit around with FaN. i want the money, i dont want him trying to kill shit on his own. if he's trying to kill snipers he should be going scatter.

We are talking about sodapopper in mvm, right? Pre-balance soda had 10% more dps than FaN and 40% over scatter. Without minicrits it has worse dps than FaN but is still better against constant hordes compared to scatter. Scatter becomes worse the moment it has to reload, while soda just continues to deal damage. Scatter also cost more to max out and it is still worse than soda, because like I said, reload makes it worse. FaN does more damage now and has some utility (knockback) against the robots. The hype mode with soda is fun but that's all. It's just fun. Jump height (and speed) is all you need as scout to get anywhere. Nothing is preventing you from doing massive damage to the robots while also collecting all the money.

[QUOTE=Exhale;43338800]We are talking about sodapopper in mvm, right? Pre-balance soda had 10% more dps than FaN and 40% over scatter. Without minicrits it has worse dps than FaN but is still better against constant hordes compared to scatter. Scatter becomes worse the moment it has to reload, while soda just continues to deal damage. Scatter also cost more to max out and it is still worse than soda, because like I said, reload makes it worse. FaN does more damage now and has some utility (knockback) against the robots. The hype mode with soda is fun but that's all. It's just fun. Jump height (and speed) is all you need as scout to get anywhere. Nothing is preventing you from doing massive damage to the robots while also collecting all the money.[/QUOTE] but going in and fighting robots is generally not a good idea as a scout. the more a scout risks taking any damage of generating any aggro, the more of a chance he has to die. a scout that dies is a bad scout, and is not collecting money.

you have no reason to die with the money overheal. you should be around 300-400 hp at all times. it comes down to personal skill at this point. advice can't make you better if you can't multi-task properly. scout can bring excellent damage while completing his main job. [thumb]http://www.sourceop.com/hell-met/TF2/multi-scout.jpg[/thumb]

[QUOTE=Hell-met;43340286]you have no reason to die with the money overheal. you should be around 300-400 hp at all times. it comes down to personal skill at this point. advice can't make you better if you can't multi-task properly. scout can bring excellent damage while completing his main job. [thumb]http://www.sourceop.com/hell-met/TF2/multi-scout.jpg[/thumb][/QUOTE] what primary were you using and did you upgrade it? that's some nice damage.

[QUOTE=mphayes97;43344758]what primary were you using and did you upgrade it? that's some nice damage.[/QUOTE] He could've used pretty much any Scout primary, as they all can output a good amount of damage with full upgrades and decent aim. The latter one is not really required when there are hordes of normal bots in front of you though.

I personally use the Shortstop as my primary choice for Scout, very nice gun. 4 shots of 100% damage, plus healing bonuses keep me active in both damage and collecting dosh at the front (surfing explosives is fun, too!).

At this point I'm super confused. Everybody uses something different and everything seems to be effective from their point of view. I use BFB so I don't have to upgrade movement speed, and these days it also packs a punch. If I have to doublejump, all's fine, there are always robots to shoot.

I want a knockback resistance upgrade for Scout. They could just re-use the one on the Targe.

[QUOTE=zekrom3112;43345784]I want a knockback resistance upgrade for Scout. They could just re-use the one on the Targe.[/QUOTE] I wonder if it also affects the self-inflicted knock back as I tend to use the triple jump of it as a way to get on higher places without the need to max out my jumping. It would suck if one of its main features was made useless. At least it still could knock the bomb carrying bots around though.

39 tours later [t]http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/687096419936177792/9E151AAB6BE40979C241700FDBE79DEA290A02CC/[/t] finally