MvM Discussion Megathread: Do Androids Complain of Overpowered Upgrades? - Games

[QUOTE=LightFlock;43107489]I always figured both health regen and movement speed to be very useful playing Pyro aswell. Not to mention resistances are undoubtedly useful no matter the class.[/QUOTE] Health regen isn't worth it. Theres a better upgrade called health on kill. Really, you should be upgrading your gun. But if you're not upgrading your gun, you should be buying resistances. (although upgrading your gun is better, killing shit faster increases your survivability [as does health on kill])

[QUOTE=Wolf532;43107438]Axtinguisher does 390 damage per second when it is full upgraded. A flamethrower does 308 damage per second fully upgraded. It takes 1600 dollars to fully upgrade a flamethrower's damage, while it only costs 800 dollars to upgrade the axtinguishers firing speed to full. You get MORE damage at HALF the price. The only downside is that its shit against tanks. But on Manhatten, there are no tanks. The BIG upside to the axtinguisher is that it's FAR more reliable than the flamethrower at dealing damage. To achieve said full 308 DPS with the flamethrower, you have to be right up next to the giant anyway. Farther away from the giant, it only deals a measly 182 damage per second (Again, fully upgraded.) At So with the axtinguisher and degreaser, you can have the utility of airblast on your team while still having a decent amount of damage output. Now you can spend your money on resistances because the only upgrades you need are ammo capacity (hell, even just 1 point in it will do) airblast force, heatlh on kill and swing speed.[/QUOTE] The flamethrower's more useful. Although the axti may hit higher single target dps in a vacuum, the flamethrower does much better against crowds since flame particles penetrate, and it's also useful against the tank (the best anti-tank weapon in the game, in fact). Additionally, the flamethrower is probably going to be reaping the benefits of a kritzkrieg, buff banner, or mark for death, increasing the damage to ~376 dps. Switch time just isn't worth it at that point. Also, I like to run the powerjack in my melee slot for the increased mobility. Also, where on earth are you getting your numbers from? 195/(1-0.4) = 325 dps for the axtinguisher at max swing speed 139.5*2 = 279 dps for the flamethrower at max damage

id rather not switch out my flamethrower and have to switch it back to air blast or puff fire. you're wasting valuable fractions of seconds on switching.

I still wonder why the Medic shield doesn't have a kill icon... That thing is confusing. So, for new upgrades suggestions: [B]Global +20% knockback resistance: $150 (up to 3 points)[/B] Have you ever spent all your money on explosive and critical resistance, just to go flying after the first Soldierbot of a horde knockbacks you to a wall, followed by a rocket barrage? Yeah, this will come in hand against those FaN Scouts, too. Ps: It obviously should not conflict with self-explosive jumping, but I don't know if this is the reason Valve hasn't made it yet. [B]- Shotguns and Scatterguns +20% bullets per shot: $200 (up to 4 points)[/B] Now what would this make? Basically, you will have more bullets, maybe with some random deviation, so the shot becomes wider. The idea is that you will hit more stuff with it, and do a lot of more damage at point blank. [B]- Buff Banner, Battalion's Backup, Concheror +25% buff radius: $250 (up to 3 points)[/B] Buff each and every single one of your teammates! Yes, even the Sniper! Could be useful in large maps. [B]- Battalion's Backup Immunity to movement-impairing effects: $300[/B] No more knockback to your teammates, and no more fear in those sandman Scout waves. [B]- Flying Guillotine, Wrap Assassin, Boston Basher, Southern Hospitality, Tribalman's Shiv +5s Bleed on target: $200~250 (up to 3 points)[/B] There will be blood. [B]- Flying Guillotine, Sandman, Wrap Assassin Throw Mastery: $300 (up to 4 points)[/B] +15% projectile speed per point. On direct hits: projectiles does maximum damage, and applies an effect radius that is increased +15% per point. Basically, Flying Guillotine and Wrap Assassin would apply bleeding effect to the bots in the radius, and sandman balls would stun bots in the radius. [B]- Disciplinary Action +2s speed boost on hit: $100 (up to 4 points)[/B] Because yeah, why not? Waste this on these extra bucks you don't know what to spend on, or just hit your teammates with this while spamming "press f4". [B]Speed boost applied on wearer after getting a kill: $200~300[/B] I know that you won't use your melee in MvM as a Soldier and even less if you're using the DA, but hey, let's give it some more uniqueness! Also, this would come in hand while running out of ammo for the rocket launcher under a buff banner charge.

It's pretty obvious why it doesn't have a kill icon: cause valve is lazy

The Gunslinger could use some work to make it a viable upgrade. Why not give it additional tiers into the disposable sentry slot? You'd deal less DPS overall, but combined with the Rescue Ranger or something, you could cover pretty much any area. And imagine managing 3 or more mini-sentries while possessing a Frontier Justice. It might actually make that gun worthwhile, too.

[QUOTE=igotopinions;43109989]The Gunslinger could use some work to make it a viable upgrade. Why not give it additional tiers into the disposable sentry slot? You'd deal less DPS overall, but combined with the Rescue Ranger or something, you could cover pretty much any area. And imagine managing 3 or more mini-sentries while possessing a Frontier Justice. It might actually make that gun worthwhile, too.[/QUOTE] disposable sentries are different from minis, they are a new building technically. they do not inherit upgrades, have weaker health/damage, are slightly smaller and cannot be repaired/refilled. (they are absolutely terrible) there needs to be a whole new upgrade for real clone sentries.

[QUOTE=Hell-met;43100706]might aswell post this here. I posted this on SPUD but threads whining about bad players were apparently alot more popular. -holysweetmaidenoffinlandisthislonglistjesus- don't bother rating. too much stuff at once.[/QUOTE] That "100% crit chance" upgrade sounds like something that would probably never come to fruition. Spy already can get crits for his revolver via knife upgrades, Pyro can already get crits with his flares and the permacrits would just render the crit canteen pointless. If anything, some loadout choices should have a "critboost on kill for %s1 seconds" upgrade, since that doesn't render the crit canteen somewhat pointless and doesn't encourage going battle-class ([sp]or battle-medic*shudder*[/sp]), like the permacrits would. Explosive punch sounds weird too, since explosive headshot is kind of Sniper's thing in MvM. I don't know, maybe slap a "minicrits become full crits" upgrade on the Steak or something like that. That milk/piss slowdown will never get removed. I'm quite sure of that. On the plus side though, the Short circuit slowdown, ambassador's Explosive headshots, Demoknight changes and infinite Razorback sound like interesting changes.

I miss the old Empire Escalation. Just beat it yesterday with a Quick Fix medic, the only person running that medigun I've ever met in Mann Up. It was such a breeze, we never failed a wave. I'm pretty sure we could beat the old stuff, no probs. But people usually can't be arsed to switch off of kritz, hence they had to nerf it.

[QUOTE=Drury;43110954]I miss the old Empire Escalation. Just beat it yesterday with a Quick Fix medic, the only person running that medigun I've ever met in Mann Up. It was such a breeze, we never failed a wave. I'm pretty sure we could beat the old stuff, no probs. But people usually can't be arsed to switch off of kritz, hence they had to nerf it.[/QUOTE] the outcry on broken parts last year was far bigger than the one on empire escalation last month, don't know why they decided to nerf it.

[QUOTE=Fillmore;43110661]and the permacrits would just render the crit canteen pointless.[/QUOTE] you're not seriously going to use a canteen for a shotgun or pistol

Eh, just tried bootcamp in the intermediate mission of Mannhattan today. Did you guys say that Empire Escalation was hard before? Try to do one of the intermediate missions on bootcamp and you'll see what one should truly fear.

[QUOTE=Drury;43110954]I miss the old Empire Escalation. Just beat it yesterday with a Quick Fix medic, the only person running that medigun I've ever met in Mann Up. It was such a breeze, we never failed a wave. I'm pretty sure we could beat the old stuff, no probs. But people usually can't be arsed to switch off of kritz, hence they had to nerf it.[/QUOTE] You could run literally any medigun in MvM, as long as your team is good you can pretty much win. I just prefer kritzkrieg because the uber is better, builds just as fast, the buffs are bigger, and you can upgrade your healing rate anyway.

[QUOTE=Wolf532;43113883]You could run literally any medigun in MvM, as long as your team is good you can pretty much win. I just prefer kritzkrieg because the uber is better, builds just as fast, the buffs are bigger, and you can upgrade your healing rate anyway.[/QUOTE] You can buff everything on mediguns. Even the quick-fix.

I just had the pleasure of running into a team that had a Gunslinger Engy and a Bonk + Candy Cane Scout on Hamlet Hostility Mann Up. We didn't beat the first wave after 3 tries, and when we did they voted to restart since we missed 75 cash. The worst part is that the Gunslinger Engy had 11 tours, and when I asked "why gunslinger" he replied "gud". He was good with the Widowmaker, I admit, but we had nowhere safe to fall back to and his dispenser was never around so we ran out of ammo quickly. The Bonk Scout died quite often, and I asked him to switch to milk but he just made some incomprehensible noise in voice chat. I don't ragequit often, but I felt it was okay to do so there.

If i will get some money again...I will play one of thoose MvM two cities tours again...My first Two cities tour only gives me a ullapool caber and some killstreak kit parts ;-;

[QUOTE=Omninerd;43113512]Eh, just tried bootcamp in the intermediate mission of Mannhattan today. Did you guys say that Empire Escalation was hard before? Try to do one of the intermediate missions on bootcamp and you'll see what one should truly fear.[/QUOTE] I play on boot camps all the time because I can't afford tickets. Once I tried mann up. I did't saw any difference to be honest.

[QUOTE=Omninerd;43113512]Eh, just tried bootcamp in the intermediate mission of Mannhattan today. Did you guys say that Empire Escalation was hard before? Try to do one of the intermediate missions on bootcamp and you'll see what one should truly fear.[/QUOTE] ???? the intermediate missions are piss easy

he's probably talking about the dumb players

[QUOTE=Hell-met;43116638]he's probably talking about the dumb players[/QUOTE] Yep, the players. Also, lag. Our Engy took 2 fails to learn that he could use the tele, and one more to learn that he should put the [B]entrance[/B] near the spawn... It took 5+ tries to beat wave 1, and I always had to pick classes I have no idea how to play properly. My lag just won't allow me to do the Medic's multitask that it requires now... Not entirely their fault, since i'm also not a good player when I'm not a Soldier/Scout.

I had a bug where when the wave was failed, it didn't revert upgrades and money spent on them. I feel like this should be e-mailed to the appropriate people.

I was in Metro Malice with tour 1 players, and those players had binds that were copy/paste stuff about feminazis or "LOL SO RANDUMB XD" and constantly kept saying "pootis" They started criticizing the Pyro player for not going Heavy because the Demoman nor Soldier wanted to switch, and the Pyro player was on tour 6. He later changed to Heavy but only because they were going to votekick him otherwise. Oh it was awful. They upgraded their weapons first, but had NO idea about resistances, and the Medic didn't know how to use his Shield on wave 1. I tried to stop Spies during one of the early waves and as I stepped back to shoot a Spy, ended up at spawn because the Engie upgraded to two-way teleporters and second sentry first. The kicker? The tour 6 guy and myself got normal rewards and nothing more. All four of the tour one players got a bit more, one being a rare part and the other 3 getting specialized kits on top of their tour reward.

Resistances aren't as good as upgrading your gun though. You should max out the important stuff on your gun before you get to resistances. You should always get crit resistance when the situation calls for it, but thats about it. 2 way teleporter this is trash, it causes more losses than it prevents.

[QUOTE=cpubasic13;43117566]I was in Metro Malice with tour 1 players, and those players had binds that were copy/paste stuff about feminazis or "LOL SO RANDUMB XD" and constantly kept saying "pootis" They started criticizing the Pyro player for not going Heavy because the Demoman nor Soldier wanted to switch, and the Pyro player was on tour 6. He later changed to Heavy but only because they were going to votekick him otherwise. Oh it was awful. They upgraded their weapons first, but had NO idea about resistances, and the Medic didn't know how to use his Shield on wave 1. I tried to stop Spies during one of the early waves and as I stepped back to shoot a Spy, ended up at spawn because the Engie upgraded to two-way teleporters and second sentry first. The kicker? The tour 6 guy and myself got normal rewards and nothing more. All four of the tour one players got a bit more, one being a rare part and the other 3 getting specialized kits on top of their tour reward.[/QUOTE] Believe in karma, they said... [editline]8th December 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Wolf532;43117853]Resistances aren't as good as upgrading your gun though. You should max out the important stuff on your gun before you get to resistances. You should always get crit resistance when the situation calls for it, but thats about it. 2 way teleporter this is trash, it causes more losses than it prevents.[/QUOTE] I wouldn't say [B]max[/B] it. I mean, some upgrades do pretty good enough at just some levels, like the sticky launcher just needs 2 reload speed upgrades...

Has anyone noticed how the Announcer doesn't say how many spy bots are left to destroy? I stopped hearing this maybe after they added wave 666.

I've noticed she doesn't always announce when they spawn anymore too.

I've heard the announcer mispronounce how Engineers come in a few times as well. Such as saying "An engineerbot has teleported in" but it actually comes running out of the robot spawn instead

[QUOTE=HyperTails;43118841]I've heard the announcer mispronounce how Engineers come in a few times as well. Such as saying "An engineerbot has teleported in" but it actually comes running out of the robot spawn instead[/QUOTE] *Tank spawns* "The tank is halfway through!"

[QUOTE=omegasupreme1;43118807]I've noticed she doesn't always announce when they spawn anymore too.[/QUOTE] I noticed that too yesterday. Spy bots were attacking everyone on Mannhattan, but the Announcer only said a lot of time later, enough for them to kill ~3 guys. The spy icon also only appeared after she announced them.

Sentry Buster icon still blinks despite the fact that I just destroyed that thing.