MvM Discussion Megathread: Do Androids Complain of Overpowered Upgrades? - Games

Now that you mentioned Sentry Busters... I remember that the icon and the announcement were broken at some points in earlier missions after the Two Cities Update, too (I don't know if it was like that before the update because I ust wasn't playing MvM before the update hit). I guess that the announcer just left records on her table and got away to steal Hale's australium reserve. :v:

I hate it when sentry busters start going after your sentry and on the way to the sentry they blow up your dispenser with the caber

[QUOTE=Capt. Tin;43119712]I hate it when sentry busters start going after your sentry and on the way to the sentry they blow up your dispenser with the caber[/QUOTE] You should call them dispentry busters.

Does anyone else get that bug where you hear a sentry buster for a little while after it explodes? Once you get to the point where there might be two or three on the field at a time, it gets really distracting. I thought this was a known thing, but it's not listed on the wiki. Also: kinda wondering if Australium weapons aren't actually as rare as they're made out to be. Between facepunchers showing theirs off, and the fact that I've personally seen one drop (I've only done one tour), it seems like we're dealing with much higher percentages than the unusuals.

Anyone else feel like they should buff the Metal Regen upgrade on the Engineer? It costs $200 for +5 metal every 5 seconds, and can upgrade 5 times. For the same price one could upgrade their max metal bag by +50%, which lets you get more metal from packs. That upgrade makes the Metal Regen completely worthless. If they could change it to give +10 metal every 5 seconds up to +50 every 5, and offer the upgrade at $100, then it might be a better alternative when metal packs and dispensers aren't enough. Anyone else agree it should be changed somehow?

[QUOTE=Inigo Montoya;43120659]Anyone else feel like they should buff the Metal Regen upgrade on the Engineer? It costs $200 for +5 metal every 5 seconds, and can upgrade 5 times. For the same price one could upgrade their max metal bag by +50%, which lets you get more metal from packs. That upgrade makes the Metal Regen completely worthless. If they could change it to give +10 metal every 5 seconds up to +50 every 5, and offer the upgrade at $100, then it might be a better alternative when metal packs and dispensers aren't enough. Anyone else agree it should be changed somehow?[/QUOTE] I ALWAYS get max metal capacity over metal regen. Having 600 metal to work with, with ammo packs 3x the metal is a million times better than having 200 metal and +50 every 5 seconds.

do resistances stack with fos?

[QUOTE=Zannabluke;43122060]do resistances stack with fos?[/QUOTE] No. resis upgrade + item resis acts weird. this is the same problem on the targe. you would think 40% + 75% would make you immune to explosions, right? Nope, and I have no idea how it adds up.

[QUOTE=Capt. Tin;43119712]I hate it when sentry busters start going after your sentry and on the way to the sentry they blow up your dispenser with the caber[/QUOTE] I wasn't sure whether to laugh or cry when it happened to me for the first time. It was so hilarious yet so sad...

[QUOTE=Hell-met;43122306]you would think 40% + 75% would make you immune to explosions, right? Nope, and I have no idea how it adds up.[/QUOTE] There is probably a max limit on your resistances in total. Otherwise being immune to damage sources could be a problem for balance. After all, not dying means you can just put yourself out there and be a sandbag to the bots while your allies just destroy them.

[QUOTE=Hell-met;43122306]No. resis upgrade + item resis acts weird. this is the same problem on the targe. you would think 40% + 75% would make you immune to explosions, right? Nope, and I have no idea how it adds up.[/QUOTE] If I was programming it, I would multiply resistances. So for 75% + 40% resistance that means all damage gets multiplied by 0.25 * 0.6. So that would be a 85% resistance total. That way you can add any number of resistances without ever reaching 100% resistance.

[QUOTE=gigazelle;43120982]I ALWAYS get max metal capacity over metal regen. Having 600 metal to work with, with ammo packs 3x the metal is a million times better than having 200 metal and +50 every 5 seconds.[/QUOTE] Max metal would still nearly always be the better option on maps with ammo packs. However, in a map like Mannhattan the ammo packs are spread pretty far apart, so I think the Metal Regen might actually find some use there.

relevant [video]http://youtube.com/watch?v=Y62URvUUDvw[/video]

[QUOTE=Zannabluke;43128744]relevant [video]http://youtube.com/watch?v=Y62URvUUDvw[/video][/QUOTE] I'm surprised this isn't a thing yet. Also, now that Star_ made a video about it, I think I won't try MvM for a while...

[QUOTE=Larikang;43125839]If I was programming it, I would multiply resistances. So for 75% + 40% resistance that means all damage gets multiplied by 0.25 * 0.6. So that would be a 85% resistance total. That way you can add any number of resistances without ever reaching 100% resistance.[/QUOTE] That's how resistances stack in pvp (see: old expert's ordnance with targe), and it's probably how they stack in mvm too.

What's your policy on buybacks and canteen use? I've always avoided using them unless it's the penultimate or final wave. It seems like common sense: if the team's having difficulty now, then it's only going to be harder as we go along. If I save those credits, I could put them towards a long-term benefit, rather permanently losing money for a temporary boon. But I've gotten shit for it, so I'm starting to rethink that. (of course, recall canteens for endurance waves are an entirely different matter)

I only buy back in if the bomb is right at the base and buying in helps stop the threat immediately. Otherwise, it is an awful thing to do. Canteens are very useful depending on your class, but I don't even touch those until resistances and mandatory upgrades (Mad Milk, Airblast, Knockback Rage, etc.) are bought.

It would be pretty sweet to see the Heavy's shotguns receive a buff, as with either the damage upgrade or Hell-met's idea about 100% crit chance would make them able to beat the minigun in damaging tanks with maxed out damage, firing and reloading speed.

I've played around with the upgrade exploit and think the huntsman desperately needs kritz on kill to be viable again. It's much more fun that way.

[QUOTE=sergiuung;43132611]I've played around with the upgrade exploit and think the huntsman desperately needs kritz on kill to be viable again. It's much more fun that way.[/QUOTE] I thought they patched that? Is that the one where you can add upgrades from weapons to other weapons?

[QUOTE=Hell-met;43113164]you're not seriously going to use a canteen for a shotgun or pistol[/QUOTE] I guess I should've written that differently. What I was trying to say is that adding a critboost on kill to those weapons makes more sense than just slapping permacrits on them, since that might encourage support roles to play overly aggressive and Medic is never meant for combat

[QUOTE=Hng;43132701]I thought they patched that? Is that the one where you can add upgrades from weapons to other weapons?[/QUOTE] Worked a few days ago. It's as simple as swapping upgrade ids.

[QUOTE=sergiuung;43132611]I've played around with the upgrade exploit and think the huntsman desperately needs kritz on kill to be viable again. It's much more fun that way.[/QUOTE] Until the huntsman gets explosive headshot, it's going to remain a total non-starter. MvM is about dealing with hordes of robots; precision tools are not welcome.

[QUOTE=sergiuung;43132992]Worked a few days ago. It's as simple as swapping upgrade ids.[/QUOTE] can you elaborate on this "exploit" the only thread i could find seems outdated [QUOTE=Armisael;43134358]Until the huntsman gets explosive headshot, it's going to remain a total non-starter. MvM is about dealing with hordes of robots; precision tools are not welcome.[/QUOTE] do holiday punch, backstabs and backburner qualify as precision? :v:

The holiday punch gets a pass because it's in a rarely used slot and the backburner (while still annoying in my book) still retains the flamethrower's crowd-control aspects. I keep hearing that spies are decent in mvm, although I've yet to see one that does anything that a scout, a pomson engy, and a soldier/demo (all pretty much inevitable) can't do anyways. At any rate, if you are going to run one, you have to have a knife, making that discussion moot.

I guess ":v:" wasn't humorous enough. didn't expect a serious response spy is godtier. you've probably only seen bads. I still want to know the upgrade exploit thing. I am curious and valve can't ban for a .txt file. This is my chance to play shotgun heavy with damage and crits on kill.

Can you tell me what a good spy does? Small medics are covered by burst damage classes, giant medics are covered by a pomson, cash collection is covered by a scout. What else (significant) is there?

[QUOTE=Armisael;43135538]Can you tell me what a good spy does? Small medics are covered by burst damage classes, giant medics are covered by a pomson, cash collection is covered by a scout. What else (significant) is there?[/QUOTE] See a Giant Soldier with ALOT of uber medics only a demo could take out without making them pop but the Demo is elsewhere? Sap the Uber bots, Kunai stab them all, DR away. Rescue Ranger > Pomson in every way of MVM, Scout get shot at by robots. Robots don't attack disguised spies, even STAR_ showed a video where Stabby took the role of cash-collector and rarely missed 5 or 10 dollars. Once upgraded the Sapper will slow giants, take out hordes of normal robots, and the knife can do significant damage. The only difference is a bad scout > a bad spy for cash collecting.

[QUOTE=Armisael;43135538]Can you tell me what a good spy does? Small medics are covered by burst damage classes, giant medics are covered by a pomson, cash collection is covered by a scout. What else (significant) is there?[/QUOTE] 870 damage per stab, ~2-3 stabs per second with full upgrades, 5 stabs per giant medic. He oneshots annoying mini giants like steel gauntlets, samurai demos and can easily collect money due to nobody attacking while disguised. Before the manhattan nerf it was pretty much essential for me to go spy when I played scout on wave 4 and up. You could easily carry a bad team alone.

[QUOTE=Armisael;43135538]Can you tell me what a good spy does? Small medics are covered by burst damage classes, giant medics are covered by a pomson, cash collection is covered by a scout. What else (significant) is there?[/QUOTE] Spy is a scout/sniper/demo hybrid. An excellent spy can collect all money and do his regular job at once (this can cover two separate players in one class) Collecting money with spy often requires a little team effort to help incase of distress, but that is no biggie if you're not playing with potatoes. It is definitely possible to do A+ on any map with spy because robots ignore you. Just make sure to upgrade running speed. Spy is virtually invincible because diguise grants permanent invisibility. Unless you get caught in crossfire, the spy can roam anywhere freely and pick his fights. Choosing your battles is a huge advantage. With no knife upgrade, he can 1shot nasty targets such as steelies, tall bowmen and demorais. Alot of custom missions have very tough non-giant commons which are all 1shottable by spy (and even valve seems to make more of those) Backstab-oriented combat means the spy virtually cannot fail or miss his attacks unlike Sniper (which needs considerable accuracy) or Demo (which needs to watch and plan his stickies) Completely functional without canteens or resistances. Best reliable DPS against a single target (around 1600? can't remember) Even in the event of a failure, a unupgraded sapper can doom a single giant and give enough time for the team to deal with it. An upgraded sapper can serve as a half-assed anti-crowd. A competent spy can attract ALL the robot attention upon him and simply hide and dance around, giving his team godmode since robots give higher priority to stabs and ignore everything else. Disguise+DR can serve as excellent emergency bodyblocking, works even better when you ride a giant robot. Has access to engineer-infested areas (mecha decoy, manhattan) incase of team failure Can 2shot giant scouts. That alone is worth noting. Can nullify sniperbots with ambassador from a distance (since they're always standing still) Since the spy is covering alot of roles, the team can afford fun, interesting class selections such as 2 soldiers or pyros or engis. The trade-off for all of this is being terrible vs tanks, but that is definitely acceptable considering you fulfill multiple roles at once. Invite me sometime and I can gladly show you.