MvM Discussion Megathread: Do Androids Complain of Overpowered Upgrades?
1,944 replies, posted
Meanwhile...
[t]http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/3281173896711170485/44AA3A893CF7CCB985E301DDE1833FA9A3A28BD3/[/t]
Shit like this still happens. Fucking bloody spy-bots.
Since the Medic and Soldier got revamps to give them more depth, I expect down the line other classes will be given the same treatment. So why not speculate what's to come for the Engineer?! If the Medic was able to find a way to revive team mates and generate a shield from his Medigun, surely the Engineer could achieve something great in his field.
I've tried to aim for ways to organize the Engineer's upgrades to give more depth and flexibility in his upgrade options, but I feel that what I've done is still a bit lacking in the excitement department. I don't know what I should do to break gaps and make him more exciting and strategically interesting without breaking his delicate balance.
I've given reasons for most of the changes just 'cause. Tell me what you all think!
Just as a refresher, here are all the upgrades for Engineer:
[b]Metal Regen[/b] (200 credits, 5 levels)
[b]Disposable Mini-Sentry[/b] (500 credits, 1 level)
[b]+100% Building Health[/b] (400 credits, 3 levels)
[b]+10% Sentry Faster Firing Rat[/b]e (350 credits, 3 levels)
[b]Two-Way Teleporter[/b] (250 credits, 1 level)
[b]+50% Max Metal Capacity[/b] (200 credits, 4 levels)
[b]+100% Dispenser Range[/b] (100 credits, 3 levels)
Alright, here is my re-imagining of the Engineer!:
[b]Metal Regen[/b]
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/d/dc/The_extinguished_gentleman.jpg/64px-The_extinguished_gentleman.jpg?t=20110422092548[/img]
([i]100 credits, 5 levels[/i]) (Down from 200)
Gives 10/20/30/40/50 metal regeneration every 5 seconds.
[b]Reason:[/b] It is garbage, nothing short of it. This doesn't compare to the max metal capacity upgrade. Now it does ([i]kinda[/i]).
[b]+50% Max Metal Capacity[/b]
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/5/5e/Tf_demoman_destroy_buildings_grind.png/64px-Tf_demoman_destroy_buildings_grind.png?t=20110422082402[/img]
([i]200 credits, 4 levels[/i]) (Unchanged)
+50/100/150/200% Max Metal on Wearer
[b]Reason:[/b] This bonus could probably be cut in half for reasons that I explain later. For now, it may be fine to keep it as is.
[b]Mechanical Mastery[/b]
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/62/Built_to_last.jpg/64px-Built_to_last.jpg?t=20110422090350[/img]
([i]300 credits, 4 levels[/i]) (Down from 400, upgrades up from 3. Replaces Building Health upgrade)
+75/150/225/300% building health, +25/50/75/100% Faster Construction Rate, and +25/50/75/100% Faster Repair Rate.
[b]Reason[/b]: The cheaper cost and higher upgrade cap allows for purchase of health upgrades earlier without changing much at the end result. The cheaper cost also allows for more flexibility with upgrade combinations. The faster construction rate helps the Gunslinger Engineer, in a very subtle way. The faster repair rate is meant to compensate for less max health per level.
[b]Sentry Construction[/b]
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/5/52/Best_little_slaughterhouse_in_texas.jpg/64px-Best_little_slaughterhouse_in_texas.jpg?t=20110422090323[/img]
([i]300 credits, 4 levels[/i]) (Down from 350, upgrades up from 3. Replaces Sentry Firing Rate upgrade)
+10/20/30/40% Faster Firing Rate, +25/50/75/100% Max Ammo Capacity
[b]Reason:[/b] Again, cheaper for more flexible upgrade combinations. The cap is increased more for consistency.
[b]Dispenser Construction[/b]
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/0/09/Doc_holiday.jpg/64px-Doc_holiday.jpg?t=20110422090427[/img]
([i]100 credits, 4 levels[/i]) (Upgrades up from 3. Replaces Dispenser Range upgrade)
+100/200/300/400% healing radius, +25/50/75/100% max metal storage
[b]Reason:[/b] Can upgrade higher for consistency. The price is unchanged to avoid the alienation of this upgrade in favor for other ones, because I think people would be upset since it's extremely beneficial for teams.
[b]Two-Way Teleporter[/b]
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/7/7c/Five_Second_Plan.png/64px-Five_Second_Plan.png?t=20110422102450[/img]
([i]200 credits, 1 level[/i]) (Down from 250)
[b]Reason:[/b] I felt like this was too expensive for something I rarely find use for. However in situations when it is needed, it can be extremely useful. It's cheaper in hopes to see more use.
[b]Disposible Mini-Sentry[/b]
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/8/83/Uncivil_engineer.jpg/64px-Uncivil_engineer.jpg?t=20110422094317[/img]
([i]500 credits, 1 level[/i]) (Unchanged)
[b]Reason:[/b] It has its uses for covering more ground, and with the new +40% firing rate, the price might seem more fair.
[b][i]*!NEW UPGRADE!*[/b][/i]
[b]Money Crucible[/b]
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/e/e8/Doc_stock_and_barrel.jpg/64px-Doc_stock_and_barrel.jpg?t=20110422090439[/img]
([i]200 credits[/i], 2 levels)
Convert money to repair, upgrade, and overheal buildings without using metal. Use Special-Attack to toggle this ability on or off.
[b]Desc:[/b] This doesn't actually cost any extra money except from what is paid up front. This basically works as a second, bottomless, rechargeable metal bag. Upon buying, this places a meter on the HUD. Each stack of currency collected by the team replenishes a percentage of the bar--Small stacks gives 5%, medium 10%, large 15%.
The Money Crucible can be activated at any point in the meter. When it's on, it allows you to overheal buildings by 25/50% their max health depending on level, as well upgrading or repairing to full health instantly without consuming metal.
The percentage used from this meter is dictated by the percent of health restored on the building, or a predefined percent if the building is upgraded.
Overhealed buildings could also get other minor bonuses, like faster rotation speed, firing rate, healing rate, recharge rate, etc.
[b]Reason For This Upgrade[/b]: It can add some more bang for your buck, letting you further upgrade your buildings beyond the standard upgrading processes. It gives a cheaper alternative to getting more max building health, and helps support more team play among many Engineers. It adds a little more depth (although probably not enough).
[b]Other Changes[/b]:
> Canteens now work on all buildings instead of just the sentry.
-> Uber canteens shield all buildings.
-> Crit canteens on Dispensers triple the healing rate and overheal players.
-> Team mates who travel through the Teleporter are charged with the canteen in use by the Engineer.
> Crit canteens now allow sentry bullets to penetrate targets.
[b]Changes Overview[/b]:
[i]Metal Regen[/i] (200 credits, 5 levels -> [i]100 credits, 5 levels[/i]) (Regenerate +10 metal every 5 seconds)
[i]Disposable Mini-Sentry[/i] (500 credits, 1 level -> [i]Unchanged[/i])
[i]+100% Building Health[/i] -> [b]Mechanical Mastery[/b] (400 credits, 3 levels -> [i]300 credits, 4 levels[/i]) (+75% Building Health, +25% Construction Rate, and +25% Repair Rate, per point)
[i]+10% Sentry Faster Firing Rate[/i] -> [b]Sentry Construction[/b] (350 credits, 3 levels -> [i]300 credits, 4 levels[/i]) (+10% Sentry Faster Firing Rate, and +25% Ammo Capacity, per point)
[i]Two-Way Teleporter[/i] (250 credits, 1 level -> [i]200 credits, 1 level[/i])
[i]+50% Max Metal Capacity[/i] (200 credits, 4 levels -> [i]Unchanged[/i])
[i]+100% Dispenser Range[/i] -> [b]Dispenser Construction[/b] (100 credits, 3 levels -> [i]100 credits, 4 levels[/i]) (+100% Dispenser Range, and +25% Max Metal Storage, per point)
*[i][b]Money Crucible[/b][/i] (200 credits, 2 levels) (Convert money to repair, upgrade, and overheal buildings without using metal. Use Special-Attack to toggle this ability on or off. Overhealed buildings give extra bonuses?)
Thoughts? What other stuff could be done better? Do you have your own ideas? I really hope I didn't over think this.
That looks like a straight engy buff to me, and I don't really think he needs it. He's already absurdly important - making him more so is not how I would start fiddling with mvm.
[QUOTE=Armisael;43917625]That looks like a straight engy buff to me, and I don't really think he needs it. He's already absurdly important - making him more so is not how I would start fiddling with mvm.[/QUOTE]
Oh, yeah, you're right... This is a buff! I didn't even consider if he needed an overall buff or not. I was going off the idea that he was dull to play at times, and that I was going to spice the playstyle up a bit.
I just think he needs some sort of active ability like the Heavy or Medic has that offers more strategy than building placement or canteen use. I've had some other ideas floating around. Maybe something like a reverse Rescue Ranger teleport, or an extra building that collects money? Something to make him a little more interactive.
[QUOTE=redBadger;43905599]Anyone have just as much bad luck as me? 16 tours and not even a professional kit.[/QUOTE]
81 tours here and no 2nd aussie yet.
is anyone else experiencing audio oddities in two cities
in rotten, random soundbits are cut and played back when you enter or leave a "new area" (like the field shop)
in manhattan, all the sounds are noticeably louder when you move from inside the warehouse to near A
[B]Canteen Specialist: Return to base[/B]
[I]*Can now be shared by medics[/I]
[I]*Same effect on medic[/I]
[U]Target shared with receives a temporary speed boost and regenerates 20% of his missing health.[/U]
[editline]15th February 2014[/editline]
[U]Will receive 10% overheal if in full health.[/U]
[QUOTE=Hell-met;43918124]is anyone else experiencing audio oddities in two cities
in rotten, random soundbits are cut and played back when you enter or leave a "new area" (like the field shop)
in manhattan, all the sounds are noticeably louder when you move from inside the warehouse to near A[/QUOTE]
That has been around since day 1.
[QUOTE=Cyanidious;43918205][B]Canteen Specialist: Return to base[/B]
[I]*Can now be shared by medics[/I]
[I]*Same effect on medic[/I]
[U]Target shared with receives a temporary speed boost and regenerates 20% of his missing health.[/U]
[editline]15th February 2014[/editline]
[U]Will receive 10% overheal if in full health.[/U][/QUOTE]
the ultimate greifing tool.
valve made it so you couldnt tele partners to spawn so you couldnt spam the button and make it impossible for your team to play
I was about to start the wave and then the display driver crashed, I can't do anything else but to restart the game.
[editline]15th February 2014[/editline]
I have to abandon it.
[QUOTE=Punchy;43918700]the ultimate greifing tool.
valve made it so you couldnt tele partners to spawn so you couldnt spam the button and make it impossible for your team to play[/QUOTE]
I was aware of that, hence the suggestion to make it viable with the Canteen specialist upgrade.
[QUOTE=ThePro1234;43918581]That has been around since day 1.[/QUOTE]
in all maps or just those 2?
it might be old but i've just assumed it was only on my end during all this time
[QUOTE=Cyanidious;43918936]I was aware of that, hence the suggestion to make it viable with the Canteen specialist upgrade.[/QUOTE]
Only way I could accept such thing is if the healing target was asked if they wish to also teleport back to spawn so they don't just suddenly go poof and become completely confused about why they are now in spawn all of a sudden.
[QUOTE=Hell-met;43919052]in all maps or just those 2?
it might be old but i've just assumed it was only on my end during all this time[/QUOTE]
Just those 2 maps (Mannhattan and Rottenburg). Must be Valve messing up with the ambient sound area. I'm no mapper though so I probably just speak nonsense :v:
I had an idea. What if non-Two Cities missions rarely gave out a different version of an Aussie? Like, Oil Spill gave out Bloody/Rusty weapons rarely instead of Bloody/Rusty Botkillers, Steel Trap gave Silver weapons rarely instead of Silver/Gold Botkillers, and Gear Grinder gave out Diamond/Carbonado weapons instead of Diamond/Carbonado Botkillers?
I dunno what Mecha Engine could give, maybe weapons that have non-metal parts being replaced with the yellow/orange hazard plastic/painted metal a la Engineer's helmet?
[QUOTE=TheFishyG;43927062]I had an idea. What if non-Two Cities missions rarely gave out a different version of an Aussie? Like, Oil Spill gave out Bloody/Rusty weapons rarely instead of Bloody/Rusty Botkillers, Steel Trap gave Silver weapons rarely instead of Silver/Gold Botkillers, and Gear Grinder gave out Diamond/Carbonado weapons instead of Diamond/Carbonado Botkillers?
I dunno what Mecha Engine could give, maybe weapons that have non-metal parts being replaced with the yellow/orange hazard plastic/painted metal a la Engineer's helmet?[/QUOTE]
im probably reading your post too fast but I have absolutely no idea what you're saying
[QUOTE=Hell-met;43927192]im probably reading your post too fast but I have absolutely no idea what you're saying[/QUOTE]
Two Cities gives away Austrailium weapons
in order to make the other missions worth playing, what if you could get a weapon reskin that is like an Aussie, but it has the qualities of the botkillers of the associated missions
ie, finishing Oil Spill could rarely net you a rusty or bloody reskin of a weapon, like how an Aussie is a golden reskin of a weapon, instead of a Botkiller
Why do the first few waves of hamlet have to be such a slog.
dumb minicrit spam
[QUOTE=ThePro1234;43896907]Seems so, but not totally sure.
Once when our Heavy managed to push Nukealot to stuck on the upper spawn, I managed to "unstuck" him by having him landing on my head, thus sending him flying upward away from the bug spot :v:[/QUOTE]
Gonna continue this one.
I tested this out and find out that the same logic that prevents you from standing on top of robots (by sliding you away) also applies to robots. Any robots try to jump over you will end up slide off your head :v:
the "slide off head" has got to be the most shitty change in mvm history
Anyone willing to do some Squad Surplus MvMing?
[QUOTE=Jonbon;43928904]the "slide off head" has got to be the most shitty change in mvm history[/QUOTE]
no man its an exploit
they're probably going to make giants stomp full sentries soon too
I haven't played MvM for a long time. Is this sploit "fix" something like when they added nobuild to the rocks on mvm_bigrock because they were too lazy to fix the AI?
[QUOTE=Hell-met;43929206]no man its an exploit
they're probably going to make giants stomp full sentries soon too[/QUOTE]
Why not email them and complain about it? It's an annoyance.
There are plenty of other ways trapping bots could be fixed.
[thumb]http://www.sourceop.com/hell-met/TF2/mvm/spec1.jpg[/thumb]
[thumb]http://www.sourceop.com/hell-met/TF2/mvm/spec2.jpg[/thumb]
spectating bots is fun
I just completed a Two Cities game as Scout with only 4 cash missed on the last wave. I was kind of upset about that, because I still don't have the achievement. Then, once we finish the final wave? Nobody gets any items. I look into my inventory, and it turns out, even though we were on a Mann Up server, nobody was charged for their ticket, nobody got any progress or items.
Has anybody else had this issue before?
[QUOTE=PeejsterM;43932066]I just completed a Two Cities game as Scout with only 4 cash missed on the last wave. I was kind of upset about that, because I still don't have the achievement. Then, once we finish the final wave? Nobody gets any items. I look into my inventory, and it turns out, even though we were on a Mann Up server, nobody was charged for their ticket, nobody got any progress or items.
Has anybody else had this issue before?[/QUOTE]
You'll get your loot later once the item server stops being stupid, and you'll have the tour completed too.
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