MvM Discussion Megathread: Do Androids Complain of Overpowered Upgrades? - Games

stop that tank

i recall there being some other mod where there was bot controlled robots and giants and it was on regular mvm maps like l4d versus mode i remember someone posting a screencap or 2 on some thread forever ago

[QUOTE=Omninerd;44620040]What's weird is that Pyros don't seen to get kicked that often from servers, even though I think he is the most useless class in MvM. Not weak, not useless, just the worst option IMO.[/QUOTE] you obviously have little experience with Pyros in MvM. They're not the best in the early game, but towards the end, they shred through every motherfucking thing and get hella points.

Again, AGAIN, for the second time in a row, I didn't get a damn thing from mission completion. Not a single fucking thing. why do these things have to happen oh shit wasn't this supposed to merge

Here's the video Zekrom wanted (sorry buddy I actually forgot about it). Don't know if it fits the PRO spy criteria you were looking for but it was the best I could find. [video=youtube;Pwu37xZTea0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pwu37xZTea0[/video]

[QUOTE=SoftHearted;44638403]Here's the video Zekrom wanted (sorry buddy I actually forgot about it). Don't know if it fits the PRO spy criteria you were looking for but it was the best I could find.[/QUOTE] sudden urge to play spy in mvm

Gotta say the thing I love about Spy is how easy you can bait robots to target you, like this: [t]http://i.imgur.com/Yat7ziw.png[/t] Screencap right from [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqwlXrTl6ao"]one of my old videos[/URL] since I'm too lazy to go ingame and take a picture myself :v: [sp]For this particular spot though, any other class is also capable of doing this in 2nd wave. Good sniping spot before those Giant Soldiers come in too.[/sp]

[QUOTE=SoftHearted;44638403] [video=youtube;Pwu37xZTea0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pwu37xZTea0[/video][/QUOTE] Oh damn that video is old. Only 750 damage on backstab with max penetration what horror it was on giant medics if you were alone.

On the bright side, old Bazaar Bargain was still around... Fuck..... And bots ignore (aka not firing, just giving you mean stare) ubercharged players too so I presume spy block was working as well, considering the date this video was out.

It amazes me how they nerfed it purely because of mvm. There really is no other reason for them to add a hardcap to the charge rate. Doesn't help that I couldn't get a simple "yes or no" answer when I wrote to them about it. Fuck I still am mad about it.

That damn charge cap also affects all other Rifles too. I tried to increase the charge rate upgrade to +300% to experience the old Bazaar glory only to meet with the same cap for them.

why don't secondaries have a damage upgrade why do pipes cost 500$ for a damage upgrade why does reload speed on a shotgun cost 250$ why do mini-sentries get stomped why cant DH get a level 4 damage to make up for the really bad splash (skullcutter too, and the 30 others) why is the YER nerfed why don't the persuader/eureka/paintrain/mantreads have good upgrades why is touching the head of a robot making you slide off why is an engineer airblasting you from 2 miles away when about to build why do reanimators show up to anyone who isn't a medic why don't players play their death screams when killed why does money get stuck in displacements why does money have random drop velocity and angles why don't tanks give charge to every chargeable weapon, instead of 2-3 items only why is red money still breaking the money bonus why is the australium drop affected by the "freshness" of an account why can't we get player/robot gibs option why don't sentrybusters have a uber skin why don't sentrybusters have a special clientside skin to show which one is yours if there are more than 1 buster why are robot models incomplete etc etc etc

[QUOTE=ThePro1234;44640445]That damn charge cap also affects all other Rifles too. I tried to increase the charge rate upgrade to +300% to experience the old Bazaar glory only to meet with the same cap for them.[/QUOTE] Wait...doesn't that make the last point of charge rate useless for sydney sleeper and heatmaker in focus mode? It literally is a waste of money holy shit.

Heatmaker's focus mode doesn't even increase your charge rate anyway. [URL="http://youtu.be/NO9i02uoSUk?t=1m2s"]The +25% is merely what you'd get your charge by the time you done reloading (without upgrade) while still scoping in.[/URL] So yeah, not useless for Heatmaker but for Sydney? Definitely.

[QUOTE=Hell-met;44640711]why do reanimators show up to anyone who isn't a medic [/QUOTE] I'm ok with it. What I don't get is why they still appear even if we don't have a Medic on the team...

[QUOTE=ThePro1234;44640744]Heatmaker's focus mode doesn't even increase your charge rate anyway. [URL="http://youtu.be/NO9i02uoSUk?t=1m2s"]The +25% is merely what you'd get your charge by the time you done reloading (without upgrade) while still scoping in.[/URL] So yeah, not useless for Heatmaker but for Sydney? Definitely.[/QUOTE] that's good to know [i]never buy level 4 charge on sydney[/i]

[QUOTE=Omninerd;44640885]I'm ok with it. What I don't get is why they still appear even if we don't have a Medic on the team...[/QUOTE] I suppose it's a way of letting the other players know where a teammate has died in the event they need to plug their defenses. Granted this could be accomplished by actually using voice comms but randoms don't always seem to know how to use a mic.

[QUOTE=Anderan;44645025]I suppose it's a way of letting the other players know where a teammate has died in the event they need to plug their defenses. Granted this could be accomplished by actually using voice comms but randoms don't always seem to know how to use a mic.[/QUOTE] Or they Don't have one. I usually don't use mine because it's the laptop's mic and I have to get close to my computer for people to actually hear me. I really need to buy a headset I'm tired of using my mic and looking like a fucking idiot while doing so.

[QUOTE=Hell-met;44640711] why is the australium drop affected by the "freshness" of an account[/QUOTE] Is this proven or just a guess? Because I can completely see this happening, which would explain my horrid luck with mvm drops. Also, why is it that using anything besides DR makes mvm spy completely unplayable? Spy should be on top priority list for MVM overhauls much like medic.

I guess this is the new record for Rottenburg: [t]http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/433779369683358626/FDCC1899B8A167B564D1353C618C5F10A028594E/[/t] [URL="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=253371563"]Wish I was there to see it alex :v:[/URL]

Reminds me of that time I accidentally killed Sir Nukesalot with fall damage, and his money ended up all the way in his spawn [t]http://puu.sh/5Bxee[/t] I don't think that scout ever forgave me.

[t]http://i.imgur.com/xGlSq2Q.jpg[/t] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/qA6hPWt.png[/IMG]

you guys dont know the joy of not getting all the money because a baseball falls from space and stuns you for all eternity and you teammates group around you going "good shooting!" this was on rottenburg, there wasnt even any long line of sight where it couldve plausibly hit me from the max distance

[QUOTE=comet1337;44658576]you guys dont know the joy of not getting all the money because a baseball falls from space and stuns you for all eternity and you teammates group around you going "good shooting!" this was on rottenburg, there wasnt even any long line of sight where it couldve plausibly hit me from the max distance[/QUOTE] The ball must've been thrown from the bot spawn, I guess.

[quote=To Eric Smith]Hello sir, This is a message concerning Team Fortress 2 I would like to request a fix to MvM robot AI which hinders my map-making progress. When medieval mode is enabled (paired with MvM), robots will always default to their melee weapon regardless if they have a primary or secondary weapon to use. This includes the inability to use The Huntsman, The Crusader's Crossbow, The Flying Guillotine and The Mad Milk. I would also like to reforward this request : In the Mann vs Machine mode, RED players do not properly emit their dying grunts and screams as usual upon death. This results in silence with nothing but a gentle ragdoll drop, which feels broken or bugged. Best Regards, A concerned mapper[/quote] hmph. im scared he might ignore it because there's more than 1 thing to do

this game... if you buy penetration on the huntsman, arrows break upon touching an ubered teammate. if you shoot while ubered yourself, the arrows instantly break in your face.

[QUOTE=Hell-met;44698962] if you shoot while ubered yourself, the arrows instantly break in your face.[/QUOTE] oh man

[QUOTE=Hell-met;44698962]this game... if you buy penetration on the huntsman, arrows break upon touching an ubered teammate. if you shoot while ubered yourself, the arrows instantly break in your face.[/QUOTE] Could've sworn that was fixed back when MvM came out.

Why do people insist the Spy is a "good" class in MvM? Why? Oh god why. When will they learn. Like the Shield upgrade for the Mediguns in MvM, the concept works for players-versus-AI hordes of robots and the general theme of gameplay. A Shield-based Medigun would be completely overpowered in regular player-versus-player where any adequate nerfs would render it inferior / the same as the Mediguns we already have. Thus the Spy. He is a class designed for player-versus-player engagements. Being able to disguise as the opposition and utilize various tricks (Dead-Ringer and Cloaking) to further that goal. Backstabbing or sapping crucial targets when an opportunity presents itself. Such situations are fundamentally different / rare in MvM as a game mode due to the limitations of current AI programming and simply the way the combat happens. A decent Spy can play Spy decently. I am not saying the Spy itself is "bad" in MvM. Only that other classes do exactly what he does, only they do it [B]Better[/B], [B]More Reliably[/B] and [B]More Easily[/B]. When the common player-base is not 100% composed of pro-gamers who know the ins and outs of every weapon and every possible tactic within a game, you have to understand that the skill-ceiling and index of items and equipment play substantially into how effective they are. A Gibus-Vision Heavy can still contribute to an MvM match with decent damage output simply by standing there, absorbing enemy fire and dishing out damage with his Minigun. That is how his class is designed at a [I]basic[/I] level. A Gibus-Vision Spy will run into hordes of Pyrobots. Be annihilated by the random crossfire of a thousand rockets. Be instakilled by the Giant he attempted to backstab. Contributing overall nothing if not very little to the team effort. Even a Scout who isnt exactly the best at his job, collects money automatically around him in a reasonable radius, which benefits the team. He also overheals from that money, allowing him to tank large amounts of incoming fire directed at him, evading some of it as he runs around, whilst also (hopefully) adding to the team with the benefit of Mad Milk, Marked-for-Death and raw damage. A Sniper can do similarly in collecting money if he can reliably headshot, whilst also instantly annihilating groups of problematic enemies such as Uber Medics. He can also deal immense (backstab equivalent) damage to Giants with continual headshots that have the added benefit(s) of keeping the Sniper out of harms way, eliminating the Giant and any surrounding bots at the same time. I could go on, but it just pains me to no end when people insist the Spy is 'super awesome' at MvM when he simply isnt. The very way his class is designed means he is [B]currently[/B] inadequate when compared to what other classes have to offer. Valve could fix this with some interesting upgrades to the Sapper, Knife or other equipment he has, but currently every other class does what Spy does, only they do it [B]Better[/B], [B]More Reliably[/B] and [B]More Easily[/B]. Being a Pro-Super-Skilled-Elite-Spy-Mc-Douchebag is irrelevant to the point I am trying to make.

[QUOTE=Venrez;44701811]Why do people insist the Spy is a "good" class in MvM? Why? Oh god why. When will they learn. Like the Shield upgrade for the Mediguns in MvM, the concept works for players-versus-AI hordes of robots and the general theme of gameplay. A Shield-based Medigun would be completely overpowered in regular player-versus-player where any adequate nerfs would render it inferior / the same as the Mediguns we already have. Thus the Spy. He is a class designed for player-versus-player engagements. Being able to disguise as the opposition and utilize various tricks (Dead-Ringer and Cloaking) to further that goal. Backstabbing or sapping crucial targets when an opportunity presents itself. Such situations are fundamentally different / rare in MvM as a game mode due to the limitations of current AI programming and simply the way the combat happens. A decent Spy can play Spy decently. I am not saying the Spy itself is "bad" in MvM. Only that other classes do exactly what he does, only they do it [B]Better[/B], [B]More Reliably[/B] and [B]More Easily[/B]. When the common player-base is not 100% composed of pro-gamers who know the ins and outs of every weapon and every possible tactic within a game, you have to understand that the skill-ceiling and index of items and equipment play substantially into how effective they are. A Gibus-Vision Heavy can still contribute to an MvM match with decent damage output simply by standing there, absorbing enemy fire and dishing out damage with his Minigun. That is how his class is designed at a [I]basic[/I] level. A Gibus-Vision Spy will run into hordes of Pyrobots. Be annihilated by the random crossfire of a thousand rockets. Be instakilled by the Giant he attempted to backstab. Contributing overall nothing if not very little to the team effort. Even a Scout who isnt exactly the best at his job, collects money automatically around him in a reasonable radius, which benefits the team. He also overheals from that money, allowing him to tank large amounts of incoming fire directed at him, evading some of it as he runs around, whilst also (hopefully) adding to the team with the benefit of Mad Milk, Marked-for-Death and raw damage. A Sniper can do similarly in collecting money if he can reliably headshot, whilst also instantly annihilating groups of problematic enemies such as Uber Medics. He can also deal immense (backstab equivalent) damage to Giants with continual headshots that have the added benefit(s) of keeping the Sniper out of harms way, eliminating the Giant and any surrounding bots at the same time. I could go on, but it just pains me to no end when people insist the Spy is 'super awesome' at MvM when he simply isnt. The very way his class is designed means he is [B]currently[/B] inadequate when compared to what other classes have to offer. Valve could fix this with some interesting upgrades to the Sapper, Knife or other equipment he has, but currently every other class does what Spy does, only they do it [B]Better[/B], [B]More Reliably[/B] and [B]More Easily[/B]. Being a Pro-Super-Skilled-Elite-Spy-Mc-Douchebag is irrelevant to the point I am trying to make.[/QUOTE] You started the same discussion before and a couple of folks already replied. Why start the same talk all over again?