MvM Discussion Megathread: Do Androids Complain of Overpowered Upgrades? - Games

Yes well, disregard it then. Im just frustrated that some people perceive this as a personal threat to their livelihood as if I've killed their pet and harass me on Steam. That just isnt on. Although interestingly, did something re-spark an interest in Battle-Medics lately? When the Medic changes were implemented when Two-Cities was added, we saw a marked rise in the number of Medic players that wanted to test out the new toys. Player-class spread has since returned to more reasonable levels. But lately, in numerous games, I've seen a number of people, sometimes 2 or 3 Medics in a team at a time, all go Battle-Medic with Mad-Milk Syringes and it is totally ineffective. Sure, some times a group of friends might try some silly tactic together and goof off. Thats fine. But I've seen it in multiple games with different people each time, some where its clear the Medics involved do not know each other at all.

I remember when Two Cities first came out. My action button somehow or another became unbound so it was impossible for me to deploy the shield. I however was unaware of the unbinding, so I just kinda flailed around until I realized it.

Venrez, you aren't being harassed on SPUD, you're just being called an idiot for posting the same stupid crap in how Spy is "bad". When you actually get experience, maybe people would respect you rather than making fun of you for showing off screenshots that are done in Intermediate mode

[QUOTE=Venrez;44701811]Why do people insist the Spy is a "good" class in MvM? Why? Oh god why. When will they learn. Like the Shield upgrade for the Mediguns in MvM, the concept works for players-versus-AI hordes of robots and the general theme of gameplay. A Shield-based Medigun would be completely overpowered in regular player-versus-player where any adequate nerfs would render it inferior / the same as the Mediguns we already have. Thus the Spy. He is a class designed for player-versus-player engagements. Being able to disguise as the opposition and utilize various tricks (Dead-Ringer and Cloaking) to further that goal. Backstabbing or sapping crucial targets when an opportunity presents itself. Such situations are fundamentally different / rare in MvM as a game mode due to the limitations of current AI programming and simply the way the combat happens. A decent Spy can play Spy decently. I am not saying the Spy itself is "bad" in MvM. Only that other classes do exactly what he does, only they do it [B]Better[/B], [B]More Reliably[/B] and [B]More Easily[/B]. When the common player-base is not 100% composed of pro-gamers who know the ins and outs of every weapon and every possible tactic within a game, you have to understand that the skill-ceiling and index of items and equipment play substantially into how effective they are. A Gibus-Vision Heavy can still contribute to an MvM match with decent damage output simply by standing there, absorbing enemy fire and dishing out damage with his Minigun. That is how his class is designed at a [I]basic[/I] level. A Gibus-Vision Spy will run into hordes of Pyrobots. Be annihilated by the random crossfire of a thousand rockets. Be instakilled by the Giant he attempted to backstab. Contributing overall nothing if not very little to the team effort. Even a Scout who isnt exactly the best at his job, collects money automatically around him in a reasonable radius, which benefits the team. He also overheals from that money, allowing him to tank large amounts of incoming fire directed at him, evading some of it as he runs around, whilst also (hopefully) adding to the team with the benefit of Mad Milk, Marked-for-Death and raw damage. A Sniper can do similarly in collecting money if he can reliably headshot, whilst also instantly annihilating groups of problematic enemies such as Uber Medics. He can also deal immense (backstab equivalent) damage to Giants with continual headshots that have the added benefit(s) of keeping the Sniper out of harms way, eliminating the Giant and any surrounding bots at the same time. I could go on, but it just pains me to no end when people insist the Spy is 'super awesome' at MvM when he simply isnt. The very way his class is designed means he is [B]currently[/B] inadequate when compared to what other classes have to offer. Valve could fix this with some interesting upgrades to the Sapper, Knife or other equipment he has, but currently every other class does what Spy does, only they do it [B]Better[/B], [B]More Reliably[/B] and [B]More Easily[/B]. Being a Pro-Super-Skilled-Elite-Spy-Mc-Douchebag is irrelevant to the point I am trying to make.[/QUOTE] spy can be game-changing by doing literally nothing too : simply because the AI prioritizes him. [thumb]http://www.sourceop.com/hell-met/TF2/mvm/aggro.jpg[/thumb] None of my teammates ever got shot by giants because the AI thinks i'm a bigger threat from 2 miles away swinging my knife.

Actually, I am being harassed, with comments on my profile, random additions by random strangers spouting insults relating to the Spy argument and intolerable shit like that which I have to report on a daily basis, along with your own insults here of 'get some experience'. I've thousands of hours of TF2 experience. MvM was basically ~all~ I played from its release up until about 5 months ago. I've played 8 tours of Two-Cities and played every map, on every difficulty and mission, multiple times. Just because I havent forked out $500 for innumerable ToD tickets doesnt mean I dont know what Im doing. I never saw the point in paying a ridiculous amount of real-world money for said tours on the previous maps just to earn a Botkiller, which could be obtained via trading or for dirt-cheap on the Market. I could still play the Mann Up missions I wanted, for free, on various servers and obtain the 'loot' by the other means I just described. The screenshots were to make a point. If you people are going to be so biased and stupid based upon a singular point, such as jumping on the Media for making a typo in a news report, then I've nothing more to say to you because you're just going to ignore it anyway and carry on like a five year old. I post a civil discussion explaining my points as to WHY I think the Spy is bad. I am not having a go at any individual players. I even explain that the Spy can be [I]decent[/I] [B][U]if[/U][/B] the player playing him is decent, but the end result is still that a player of far lesser skill would do more as another class rather than Spy, given the vast majority of Gibus-Vision people in MvM. Then I am berated personally on a personal basis, hurled abuse at, called an idiot and harassed for weeks on end simply for expressing my opinion. Whats the point of a discussion if you silence / abuse any opposition just so you can have your bandwagon jeers? Its like debating, only if the opposition said something you didnt like, you'd evict him from the debate and just automatically claim you won be default because 'X is a dumb dumb stoopidhead.' Be civil. Be discussive. Cease with this nonsense and accept that other people have an opinion.

[QUOTE=Venrez;44706947]Actually, I am being harassed, with comments on my profile, random additions by random strangers spouting insults relating to the Spy argument and intolerable shit like that which I have to report on a daily basis, along with your own insults here of 'get some experience'. I've thousands of hours of TF2 experience. MvM was basically ~all~ I played from its release up until about 5 months ago. I've played 8 tours of Two-Cities and played every map, on every difficulty and mission, multiple times. Just because I havent forked out $500 for innumerable ToD tickets doesnt mean I dont know what Im doing. I never saw the point in paying a ridiculous amount of real-world money for said tours on the previous maps just to earn a Botkiller, which could be obtained via trading or for dirt-cheap on the Market. I could still play the Mann Up missions I wanted, for free, on various servers and obtain the 'loot' by the other means I just described. The screenshots were to make a point. If you people are going to be so biased and stupid based upon a singular point, such as jumping on the Media for making a typo in a news report, then I've nothing more to say to you because you're just going to ignore it anyway and carry on like a five year old. I post a civil discussion explaining my points as to WHY I think the Spy is bad. I am not having a go at any individual players. I even explain that the Spy can be [I]decent[/I] [B][U]if[/U][/B] the player playing him is decent, but the end result is still that a player of far lesser skill would do more as another class rather than Spy, given the vast majority of Gibus-Vision people in MvM. Then I am berated personally on a personal basis, hurled abuse at, called an idiot and harassed for weeks on end simply for expressing my opinion. Whats the point of a discussion if you silence / abuse any opposition just so you can have your bandwagon jeers? Its like debating, only if the opposition said something you didnt like, you'd evict him from the debate and just automatically claim you won be default because 'X is a dumb dumb stoopidhead.' Be civil. Be discussive. Cease with this nonsense and accept that other people have an opinion.[/QUOTE] i disagree

if you're getting that much backlash then maybe perhaps it could possibly be something on your end it doesn't feel like an "opinion" when you try to pass it off as a fact with big words you could play 6000 hours with terrible opinions, it doesn't matter. you just have to reconsider your views and/or play with better people

You are calling a class bad solely because he is terrible in the hands of a bad player. No wonder the class with the highest skill floor is shit when bad players play him. Still not a good reason to deem him useless and in need of buffs just so shitbads can play him. While I do think adding you just to harass you is crossing the line (if it is even true) you did bring this upon yourself. You could just admit you are wrong instead of repeating yourself.

[thumb]http://www.sourceop.com/hell-met/TF2/redacted.jpg[/thumb] me and a friend strategically contained the hon hon hon in a corner

When someone carries on with death-threats, spam, random additions and multiple people doing the same thing when I post a civil discussion and a personal viewpoint, the problem is [B]not[/B] on my end. I never pass it off as 'fact'. That is peoples own disingenuous assertions and putting words in my mouth that I never said. Yes, the Class is bad in the hands of a bad player. But the point I have been making is that the alternatives (playing a class other than Spy) would contribute 'more' as opposed to a bad Spy that does absolutely nothing death after death after death. Is it really that hard to understand, or are you going to continue with baseless harassment? You carry on as if I've murdered your favorite pet cat just because I say I dislike Spy. Its an opinion. Everyone has one. Yours differs. That is the point of discussion. The end.

why are you targeting me lol i almost never interacted with you

the problem with comparing gibus spy and gibus heavy, is that heavy and spy don't have the same job. Spys job is to collect money while occasionally killing bots. Heavy's job is to just shoot shit. its more accurate to compare a gibus spy with a gibus scout. And even then they both contribute jack shit. And please stop acting like a victim. Nobody here cares that you got bullied on Spud or some shit. All we did was say your argument was wrong and at worst rated your post dumb.

[QUOTE=Venrez;44706947]Be civil. Be discussive. Cease with this nonsense and accept that other people have an opinion.[/QUOTE] Ok, so, I'll not lie, I ignored the wall of text. But that part, well, I accept your opinion, but that doesn't mean I agree with it. I have the opinion that Spy is good and you have the opinion that Spy is bad no matter what, so let's just accept each others' opinion without agreeing with. Like really, I feel like trying to convince you of my point is a waste of time, and you shouldn't try to convince me of your point, because I'm sure it'll be a waste of time too. As for the random adds and death threats you received, I'm sorry, but I can't do anything about it. I don't know anyone on Facepunch who would be immature enough to do that.

As most here would say: MvM is best enjoyed with friends. Make mates, form routines and have fun. Randoms can be toxic and often lead to persecution complexes.

What's the upgrade priority for Heavy and Soldier? I believe for Soldier it is: Reload>Specialist>Firing>Damage>Clip Size (hp on kill and ammo if you need 'em) No idea about heavy, correct me if it is wrong.

I usually upgrade soldier like this - Non-beggar - Max reload 1 RS 2 Firing speed 4 Damage 2 Firing speed (Doesn't matter what you get after that) Max speed Max clip size Resistances Beggars - Max reload 1 RS 1 Ammo capacity Max damage (Doesn't matter what you get after that) 2 Ammo capacity Max firing speed Max speed Resistances Health-on-kill and crit resistance when needed/I know it would help a lot. Heavy is more about juggling resistances and firepower but nothing bad will happen from you only maxing one of them out first, as long as you can stay alive. Maybe I will get projectile deflection or maybe instead I will get 2 points in blast resistances. It all comes down to what I know will work and what won't work. An example would be hamlet wave 1. I would get 2 blast resistance there but on wave 1 metro I would get deflection instead. Heavy upgrades boils down to what you think you will need/can use for the oncoming wave. As a general rule of thumb keep penetration at lvl 1. Rage too if you actually buy it for whatever reason.

[thumb]http://www.sourceop.com/hell-met/TF2/shenan1.jpg[/thumb] [thumb]http://www.sourceop.com/hell-met/TF2/shenan2.jpg[/thumb] mapping is fun

[QUOTE=Hell-met;44713223][thumb]http://www.sourceop.com/hell-met/TF2/shenan1.jpg[/thumb] mapping is fun[/QUOTE] Did you guys really have 4 spies or some were just enemy spies?

[QUOTE=Omninerd;44713612]Did you guys really have 4 spies or some were just enemy spies?[/QUOTE] red spybots honhonhon included

It's tfbot spies. Edit: FUCK

[QUOTE=Hell-met;44709038][thumb]http://www.sourceop.com/hell-met/TF2/redacted.jpg[/thumb] me and a friend strategically contained the hon hon hon in a corner[/QUOTE] Plot twist: Sniper is Spy.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/XxLQoaZ.jpg[/img] Just thought I should post this in this thread. This is why you don't try to melee spybots.

[thumb]http://www.sourceop.com/hell-met/TF2/backupjack.jpg[/thumb] dem possibilities

[QUOTE=Hell-met;44716539][thumb]http://www.sourceop.com/hell-met/TF2/backupjack.jpg[/thumb] dem possibilities[/QUOTE] Does he heal all his health when he kills someone? Because that would make a damn neat boss.

my giant samurai has that part covered

I'd love to see a boss oriented map similar to that of mecha engi, but centering each wave, so essentially 6-7 boss battles i could see 1 tour having this, like 3 normal missions before unlocking the 4th which is a super mega 6 boss mission with double upgrade ability also, i hope we get another big map like bigrock, it feels so cozy but i have little inscentive to play it during paid mann up because of loot Also, is it possible to resize robots to insane amounts? such as having a giant attack on titan sized robot heavy boss

[QUOTE=Punchy;44718289]Also, is it possible to resize robots to insane amounts? such as having a giant attack on titan sized robot heavy boss[/QUOTE] Yes but they don't fit in any map other than attack on titan. Max size is 2 or 3 times player scale I think.

[QUOTE=Kierany9;44719940]Yes but they don't fit in any map other than attack on titan. Max size is 2 or 3 times player scale I think.[/QUOTE] the max size is (according to the bot templates) 1.75 for decoy, coaltown, and mannworks, 1.8 for mannhattan, and 1.9 for rottenburg and bigrock. any higher and they'll be too tall to fit through some doorways because they're too dumb to crouch. also they start spamming the console with errors after some ridiculous value like scale 5

But could make the player model smaller? That could be annoying and make some jumps difficult but it will give the impression of a super Giant Bot againts you.

[QUOTE=FalconHBFS;44721816]But could make the player model smaller? That could be annoying and make some jumps difficult but it will give the impression of a super Giant Bot againts you.[/QUOTE] it would probably nullify snipers since it would be near impossible to headshot unless you somehow luckily found the head hitbox in his torso and remembered the spot