Stuff that Annoys you in TF2: bind m1 say "( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)" edition - Games

[QUOTE=Stiffy360;47901682]Engineer is actually one of the most difficult classes to play. Unsupportive teams most of the time. Glass cannon sentry that can be taken down stupidly easy. Spies and other classes get crits just by looking at you. Unless you're using minisentry, or in a cluster of engineers, then it's easy.[/QUOTE] 2/3 situations you described would make playing any class hard. They're not engineer specific problems.

[QUOTE=Snowshoe;47899475]pyro's options of attack are severely limited once you take the degreaser out of the equation. the lack of faster weapon switch speed hurts his combos immensely. so your main methods of killing people end up being: - w+m1 at people - wait behind a corner and then w+m1 at people at this point you become a dedicated sentry defender/spy killer, or semi-effective at ambushing completely oblivious players.[/QUOTE] A good pyro doesn't rely on combos to be effective. Not to toot my own horn or anything but I can score higher than any degresear-flare/reserve shooter pyro by just using the default stuff.

I feel like all the people saying pyro isn't viable without the degreaser just lends further credence to the fact that people have become far too reliant on the degreaser and the slightly faster comboing. Though honestly 90% of "evidence" in this argument is just anecdotal so we're just going to keep going in circles.

[QUOTE=Oizen;47901654][img]https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/e/e6/Engineerava.jpg?t=20110422222431[/img][/QUOTE] Nice try The engineer is NOT the easiest class to play, it might seem like it, but he isn't You have to rely on making good, effective sentry spots. You also have to rely on supporting your team with teleporters, so it doesn't slow your team down getting to the objective. Meanwhile, you have enemies who are going to attempt to destroy everything you build, bullets, explosives, uber, or sappers. A good engineer can give his team life, faster movement, and better defensive, or offensive, firepower.

[QUOTE=Oizen;47901717]2/3 situations you described would make playing any class hard. They're not engineer specific problems.[/QUOTE] just like pyros, engies rely exclusively on terrain to get the best of their sentries. a good sentry placement, awareness of ammo boxes's locations and good management of your resources is the key to victory as engie. engie's work is, after all, to make everyone else's life easier.

[QUOTE=Crash155;47901768]Nice try The engineer is NOT the easiest class to play, it might seem like it, but he isn't You have to rely on making good, effective sentry spots. You also have to rely on supporting your team with teleporters, so it doesn't slow your team down getting to the objective. Meanwhile, you have enemies who are going to attempt to destroy everything you build, bullets, explosives, uber, or sappers. A good engineer can give his team life, faster movement, and better defensive, or offensive, firepower.[/QUOTE] Again what your team does for you is completely irrelevant in this argument, because that is any class in this game. A bad team will get you killed as any class, this isnt a problem that is exclusive to Engineer in any right. It doesnt even matter the role you pick, If you're support, and the rest of your team is shit, you're dead. If you're offensive, you'll receive no backup and get killed that way. As for Engineer alone, all he requires you to do is build a sentry and maintain it. It does most of the work for you. And as of late all of his unlocks are making it [url=https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Wrangler]easier[/url] [url=https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Short_Circuit]and[/url] [url=https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Rescue_Ranger]easier[/url] to do this yourself. But I havent really left playing pub servers so I'm not sure how this relates to anything beyond that.

[QUOTE=Oizen;47901819]As for Engineer alone, all he requires you to do is build a sentry and maintain it. It does most of the work for you. [/QUOTE] This is because you are a Boringineer. A Fungineer is running around, taking people trying to flank his sentry out, providing a little supporting fire on the frontlines, and generally being a cool guy. You're not a combat class, but you still have a powerful shotgun, a pistol with limitless ammo, AND you know the exact location of the most powerful ambushing tool in the game if you need to run for cover. [sp2]unless, of course, you have to turtle. don't do this if your nest is constantly under attack[/sp2]

I feel like a bad team is more of an issue for an engineer than other classes. As anyone else if your team fucks up you die and respawn within at most 20 seconds at worst. Even if my team is shit when I play soldier I can still do my job to the best of my ability. As an engie if your team fucks up then you lose buildings that took the past few minutes to build up to level 3, depending on metal availability. So basically as an engie with a shit team I can't even do my job at a basic level.

I think that there is more to Engineer than just turtling behind a sentry. This guide despite being a bit outdated on the weapons is the guide I keep coming back to every time I want to regain confidence in playing Engie. [video=youtube;Yk-6NXCo5ZA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yk-6NXCo5ZA[/video] A 50 minute guide filled with fitting western themed music (sorta, 3 not so western tracks out of the bunch but still alright) and great tips, tricks and strategies. But it leads to one of my gripes with TF2 guides is that there's little to none like The Engineer Bible in great quality for the other classes.

The engineer bible is a pretty good guide and there are some other videos on their channel that are pretty handy, like the c-tap hauling guide. Too bad that they haven't really done anything since. They do have a tumblr page though that has some useful Q&A on it.

Don't forget the nigh relentless and stubborn enemies who will constantly harass you and your sentry

[QUOTE=Oizen;47901717]2/3 situations you described would make playing any class hard. They're not engineer specific problems.[/QUOTE] Except while some classes can play as lone wolves, Engie relies entirely on his teammates to keep him and his buildings safe. [editline]8th June 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=_charon;47902259]This is because you are a Boringineer. A Fungineer is running around, taking people trying to flank his sentry out, providing a little supporting fire on the frontlines, and generally being a cool guy. You're not a combat class, but you still have a powerful shotgun, a pistol with limitless ammo, AND you know the exact location of the most powerful ambushing tool in the game if you need to run for cover. [sp2]unless, of course, you have to turtle. don't do this if your nest is constantly under attack[/sp2][/QUOTE] My tactic is to set up a nest, then run out and use myself as bait to lure the enemy team to my sentry. Occasionally one of my potshots might manage to kill a scout or spy, but usually I just lead them to the sentry and laugh.

[QUOTE=Moustacheman;47903778]Except while some classes can play as lone wolves, Engie relies entirely on his teammates to keep him and his buildings safe. [/QUOTE] Which ones? The Spy who requires his team to keep the enemy busy so he can go for the kill? The Sniper who has to rely on his team to defend him? The Medic who has to do the same, but is on the front lines? The Heavy who cant do shit as of late without the Medic? The Scout who is too much of a glass canon to make a dent in strong defenses? The Pyro who is practically defenseless at long range? The Demoman who lacks any sort of close range self defense? Honestly the only class who can go off on his own is Soldier, and thats only because he can use rocket jumps to ambush/escape situations. Thats 1/9. And even he cant do everything alone. But hey some people tend to forget the first word of this game a lot. No matter what class you're playing, a bad team is going to get you killed.

[QUOTE=Drury;47900133]Stock flamer's pretty useful even against competent people, it's not like you can't airblast rockets or do combos. It's just more counterable so you have to pick your fights, which isn't as hard as it sounds. Degreaser is just an upgrade, it allows mediocre pyros to take on more skilled people and makes amazing pyros who actually understand the class nearly impossible to avoid (even with the nerfed axtinguisher). Doesn't mean those pyros are useless with stock, not by a long shot. Just actually counterable past the point that they airblast you if you react in time. I think pyro's problem lies within his roles overlapping with those of multiple classes, while not being better at any of those. Pyro needs his own thing that he can excel at that's not setting spies ablaze or generally killing people because that proved to not be enough even if you make him absolutely amazing at both.[/QUOTE] Stock flamer is a good weapon, but the difference between degreaser when switching to secondary is god awful. You can still do combos with the stock flamer but not as fast which is a big thing in this game, where milliseconds mean life or death. Degreaser sucks shit if you're not going to combo though so feel free to use any other flamethrower if getting quick flares doesn't matter to you. The thing is, stock and combo pyro are two pretty different play styles, the latter of which I've seen is more effective at getting shit done. Stock+Shotgun isn't useless but pales in comparison to a good Degreaser+Flare/RS pyro. It's a fucking powerhouse set of unlocks.

I wonder if something as simple as increasing the Degreaser's dmg penalty to 20-25% could balance the usage of different flamers. That and some way of making the RS less cheap on Pyro than it is now, without making it worse for Soldier. I actually wouldn't mind splitting the Pyro version (which I'd give a clip of 3 again) off from the Soldier's (Equalizer-style). Even the US army green look of it doesn't fit the Pyro currently. I don't find any issue with flares, even with the Degreaser's current switch speed. People complain about how the class is a free-crit machine, but in many cases they disregard how much burst damage and sustained dmg output some of these attacks are actually capable of doing compared to other classes' non-critboosted weapons. The Flare Gun has a long reload time (2 sec, even if it's passive), can be dodged at longer ranges, needs its victims to be already on fire (which means either getting real close to lick them with flames or first hitting them with a weak 30-dmg flare to set up the crit), and in the end, it's still 'only' 90 dmg every 2 seconds [I]at best[/I] (often less if you miss or need to switch to another target and first hit them with a 30-dmg flare), which is overshadowed by stuff like RL volleys, accurate sticky/pill hits, a couple of accurate Scattergun meathshots, a Sniper headshot, a close-range hail of minigun bullets etc. All those attacks are superior in their respective optimal ranges, both in terms of burst dmg and sustained damage, without any sort of critboosts or forced-crit mechanics.

[QUOTE=Snowshoe;47904419]Stock flamer is a good weapon, but the difference between degreaser when switching to secondary is god awful. You can still do combos with the stock flamer but not as fast which is a big thing in this game, where milliseconds mean life or death. Degreaser sucks shit if you're not going to combo though so feel free to use any other flamethrower if getting quick flares doesn't matter to you. The thing is, stock and combo pyro are two pretty different play styles, the latter of which I've seen is more effective at getting shit done. Stock+Shotgun isn't useless but pales in comparison to a good Degreaser+Flare/RS pyro. It's a fucking powerhouse set of unlocks.[/QUOTE] Yeah, that's the problem I'm hitting at, it simply takes everything that you can do as pyro and amplifies it. Not saying Pyro couldn't use a buff, just that you're not exactly useless without degreaser/have very few options without. It's definitely not just waiting behind a corner with your muzzle sticking out so everybody sees you're there and W+M1ing people. Pyro's in a pretty good spot as is, just needs a bit more kick in an entirely different direction. Damage buffs and weird critcombo systems proved to be a)frustrating to play against and b)not making the class any more useful at all next to actual powerhouse classes built for putting out hurt.

[QUOTE=Lolkork;47904472]Even with the degreaser combos pyro is still pretty bad.[/QUOTE] Honestly, I agree. IF you think about it, Pyro's most infamous crit combo with the Flaregun achieves 90 damage flat damage. Which isnt bad. However,Soldier and Demoman can hit over that with one Rocket or Pill, and if they crit its ususally a one hit kill.

[QUOTE=Oizen;47904188]Which ones? The Spy who requires his team to keep the enemy busy so he can go for the kill? The Sniper who has to rely on his team to defend him? The Medic who has to do the same, but is on the front lines? The Heavy who cant do shit as of late without the Medic? The Scout who is too much of a glass canon to make a dent in strong defenses? The Pyro who is practically defenseless at long range? The Demoman who lacks any sort of close range self defense? Honestly the only class who can go off on his own is Soldier, and thats only because he can use rocket jumps to ambush/escape situations. Thats 1/9. And even he cant do everything alone. But hey some people tend to forget the first word of this game a lot. No matter what class you're playing, a bad team is going to get you killed.[/QUOTE] You can still survive most situations better than engineer in almost all cases though. (except for maybe medic and heavy) Engineer pretty much requires teammates being near you to make a difference. (unless the enemy is incompetent)

Fuck me, people in MvM Mann up mode are not accepting of people that don't regularly play the game mode. Me and a friend hopped in to use up that one free ticket only for him to be kicked because he went Pyro, dude even wanted to change to a Demo.

Demoknights are basically ruining the game for me right now. One-hit kills on me are making me so salty right now. There's just no competing if you're right next to one, there's nothing you can do that will stop them from decapitating you, and the targe gives them a super safe option to retreat if you critically injure them and they want to survive.

[QUOTE=Eldariub;47906678]Fuck me, people in MvM Mann up mode are not accepting of people that don't regularly play the game mode. Me and a friend hopped in to use up that one free ticket only for him to be kicked because he went Pyro, dude even wanted to change to a Demo.[/QUOTE] Considering you get a 3-minute grace period in Mann Up before you can be kicked, your friend had plenty of time to listen to the other players and pick a useful class instead.

Speaking of engineers it's almost surrealistically painful to spectate a friendly engineer walking past your sapped level 3 sentry as if it's not even there. Did it take anyone here a while to realize you can help other engineers out or are they really as selfish as they seem? The same engineers also seem to very rarely build anything but sentries.

[QUOTE=Jesp;47908078]Speaking of engineers it's almost surrealistically painful to spectate a friendly engineer walking past as if it's not even there. Did it take anyone here a while to realize you can help other engineers out or are they really as selfish as they seem? The same engineers also seem to very rarely build anything but sentries.[/QUOTE] Yeah, they use your tp, take from your dispenser, build a level 3 sentry right in front of yours facing the wrong direction and won't move their ass to help you. It's like they didn't read the name of the game or something.

I've always felt like a lot of players that bother with playing a Wrench Engineer on Valve servers (which I assume is where most of these experiences are taken from) are kids with a limited capacity/willingness to learn and who all got their engineering degrees from very static maps like 2Fort and Turbine, or being a ''spawn-defender'' on a KOTH map. Which means they just imitate other players they've seen before in plopping down a Sentry next to the nearest objective (even if it's locked or the team is seriously lacking in offense) and then they stay there for the whole damn game, regardless of gamemode and how the objectives move/change. Massive Sentry farms also sometimes work on a CTF server where only a few guys wil sporadically try to walk into the flag room and get gunned down by 3 Sentries, so piling them up and staying extremely static must be the way to play the class in other gamemodes as well, right? I almost wish there were a mandatory in-game tutorial that visually displays why a certain spot is a good Sentry spot and how nests and teleports are supposed to be moved as the game progresses.

[QUOTE=Untailygean;47908396]Yeah, they use your tp, take from your dispenser, build a level 3 sentry right in front of yours facing the wrong direction and won't move their ass to help you. It's like they didn't read the name of the game or something.[/QUOTE] Bonus points if they start flaming/insulting you if they die and their buildings are destroyed (due to a sticky rush or something else you can't stop).

[QUOTE=Oizen;47904188]Which ones? The Spy who requires his team to keep the enemy busy so he can go for the kill? The Sniper who has to rely on his team to defend him? The Medic who has to do the same, but is on the front lines? The Heavy who cant do shit as of late without the Medic? The Scout who is too much of a glass canon to make a dent in strong defenses? The Pyro who is practically defenseless at long range? The Demoman who lacks any sort of close range self defense? Honestly the only class who can go off on his own is Soldier, and thats only because he can use rocket jumps to ambush/escape situations. Thats 1/9. And even he cant do everything alone. But hey some people tend to forget the first word of this game a lot. No matter what class you're playing, a bad team is going to get you killed.[/QUOTE] are we playing the same game?

Everybody who says Engie is an easy class makes me want to strangle a baby.

I main pyro. For the longest time I used Degreaser with Flare / Shotgun. Did very very good and got a lot of shit from everyone. At times I would feel I wasn't skilled enough to actually do anything and that I needed those crits to be a successful pyro. Recently (last month?) I made a conscious decision to just use stock loadout with the exception instead of Fire Axe I use the Powerjack for speed. Stock flamethrower, and shotgun... guess what, nothing really changed. Sure I get less crit kills but I don't feel as cheap as before. I can still reflect and switch to the shotty and all those things I could do before. I also get called a "useless dumb w+m1er". So what im trying to say is, I'm a useless dumb w+m1er but i'm [I]proud[/I] :v:

[QUOTE=Metaru;47909459]are we playing the same game?[/QUOTE] Are you playing Fortress 2? Because the game Im playing has a lot of Team Aspects in it. Unless of course you're trying to use pub carrying as the norm for this game.

[QUOTE=bobxrawks;47911332]I main pyro. For the longest time I used Degreaser with Flare / Shotgun. Did very very good and got a lot of shit from everyone. At times I would feel I wasn't skilled enough to actually do anything and that I needed those crits to be a successful pyro. Recently (last month?) I made a conscious decision to just use stock loadout with the exception instead of Fire Axe I use the Powerjack for speed. Stock flamethrower, and shotgun... guess what, nothing really changed. Sure I get less crit kills but I don't feel as cheap as before. I can still reflect and switch to the shotty and all those things I could do before. I also get called a "useless dumb w+m1er". So what im trying to say is, I'm a useless dumb w+m1er but i'm [I]proud[/I] :v:[/QUOTE] If you're a Pyro then people will call you a w+m1er no matter what, even if you're only running around with the Sharpened Volcano Fragment & Flare Gun