[QUOTE=ikes;53024146]I'll take "lingering hitboxes" for 500, alex
it's not a bug lmao
so when we kill soldiers their rockets should disappear? when we kill demos their pipes should disappear?[/QUOTE]
What he's saying is that the particles linger unreasonably long. Like way longer than they did before. It's possible to kill a light class with a single tap on your mouse at even at max flamethrower range because of how long the particles last on them.
[QUOTE=Kincaid1;53024165]What he's saying is that the particles linger unreasonably long. Like way longer than they did before. It's possible to kill a light class with a single tap on your mouse at even at max flamethrower range because of how long the particles last on them.[/QUOTE]
Okay but for that to happen you literally have to be sitting still
seems to be like the old bison where the projectile hits the target multiple times. if so, the interval between checks should be lengthened. alternatively each particle could just damage a target once but still pierce them; allowing the flamethrower to still hit multiple people.
[QUOTE=Zadrave;53024173]Okay but for that to happen you literally have to be sitting still[/QUOTE]
The point is that the particles linger around for an eternity in TF2. Pyro v Pyro fights are incredibly more pathetic than they were before since usually both Pyros just end up dying now on the spot because the losing Pyro can drop a 50 damage commemorative gift and take the winning Pyro down with him.
[QUOTE=Kincaid1;53024165]What he's saying is that the particles linger unreasonably long. Like way longer than they did before. It's possible to kill a light class with a single tap on your mouse at even at max flamethrower range because of how long the particles last on them.[/QUOTE]
all of these sensational posts of "oh I got killed after the pyro died because the lingering particles!!" can be avoided by simply not fucking running in the direction the particles are travelling lmao
A D A P T, the vs pyro meta is now different and you've gotta learn what to and what not to do in these situations. The game has changed, and you've got to adapt to the new challenges and mechanics.
[QUOTE=ikes;53024146]I'll take "lingering hitboxes" for 500, alex
it's not a bug lmao
so when we kill soldiers their rockets should disappear? when we kill demos their pipes should disappear?[/QUOTE]
This is dumb. Flailing around for max group DPS and getting by flame throwers which are lying on the ground, which have stopped firing seconds earlier, because their bugged flames still pretend they're their users are still alive and firing is not some new "pyro meta" or "the way things are now"
Projectiles are entities spawned into the game that can be interacted with, reflected etc. Flames are a stream of damage particles that are supposed to go away quickly when the source is shut off, just like real life.
[I]They don't go away quickly.[/I] And yes, demo's remote detonation pipes do actually disappear in-flight when he dies.
It's a very big bug. Attempting to deny this indicates a major lack of gameplay and mechanics knowledge.
[QUOTE=C. Blades;53024204]This is dumb. Flailing around for max group DPS and getting by flame throwers which are lying on the ground, which have stopped firing seconds earlier, because their bugged flames still pretend they're their users are still alive and firing is not some new "pyro meta" or "the way things are now"
Projectiles are entities spawned into the game that can be interacted with, reflected etc. Flames are a stream of damage particles that are supposed to go away quickly when the source is shut off, just like real life.
[I]They don't go away quickly.[/I] And yes, demo's remote detonation pipes do actually disappear in-flight when he dies.
It's a very big bug. Attempting to deny this indicates a major lack of gameplay and mechanics knowledge.[/QUOTE]
You mean stickies I'm presuming right? Are there any other projectiles in the game that disappear if the character dies mid flight? Can't think of any off hand at least... and I'm regarding all, both damaging ( Pills, rockets, huntsman arrows, ect. ) and non damaging ones ( Jarate, Mad milk, ect. )...
Also, Did flames disappear after the pyro died before the JI update?
[QUOTE=Kitt Stargaze;53024211]
Also, Did flames disappear after the pyro died before the JI update?[/QUOTE]
Yes. You got hit for what was left of the attack a bit, but not these 75-damage flame torrents from dead pyros that we have now.
Furthermore, the backburner crit exploit which was caused by the outrageous flame lifetime didn't exist before JI, and we had to ban the weapon until valve fixed it as a result.
[QUOTE=C. Blades;53024204]
Projectiles are entities spawned into the game that can be [B]interacted with, reflected etc[/B]. Flames are a stream of damage particles that are supposed to go away quickly when the source is shut off, just like real life.
[/QUOTE]
Medic's syringes. Righteous Bison projectiles. Pomson projectiles. not every projectile that persists after death is or has to be deflectable
There are also a lot of projectiles that can be deflected but are nearly impossible to on-reaction. Huntsman arrows are an example.
Just because it cant be deflected doesnt mean it shouldnt persist after death. Unlike flames, rockets and pipes actually travel longer than a dick's length away from the user! Persistent flames have a tiny area of effect and dont travel continuously. rockets and pipes do.
[QUOTE=C. Blades;53024204]
[I]They don't go away quickly.[/I] And yes, [B]demo's remote detonation pipes do actually disappear in-flight when he dies.[/B]
[/QUOTE]
yes, because they're remote detonation, and you cant detonate them if you're dead, so what use is them still being there?
It's not a bug, it's intentional simply by the fact that fire particles linger and are meant to linger.
[editline]3rd January 2018[/editline]
[QUOTE=C. Blades;53024215]Yes. The back burner crit exploit which was caused by the outrageous flame lifetime didn't exist before JI, and we had to ban the weapon until valve fixed it as a result.[/QUOTE]
the exploit didnt exist because of lingering hitboxes, it existed [sp]to my understanding[/sp] because of an incorrect angle check using the angle of the user who fired the particles
I never said anything about a pyro-level problem with those other non-reflectable projectiles. Don't misdirect here.
And you ah.. Mean to tell me that such ridiculous amounts of guaranteed damage that persists after death, caused unavoidably by W+M1 spasming in all directions like an idiot and only brief flame contact is part of the [B][I]Skill-Based Metagame (TM)[/I][/B] that brings TF2 into the future?
...No really, I want to hear this. "Just get gud" as an argument requires a hefty analysis of your position.
[QUOTE=C. Blades;53024215]Furthermore, the backburner crit exploit which was caused by the outrageous flame lifetime didn't exist before JI, and we had to ban the weapon until valve fixed it as a result.[/QUOTE]
This I question? From what saw from that exploit, the one where changing the direction you were facing effected if the hits registered as crits or not correct? That doesn't sound like that was directly caused by the lingering particles. More like a bug that links the direct your facing to the particles themselves. If it were lingerling particles that caused it directly I believe that would mean they would register as critical hits regardless of which direction you were facing wouldn't it?
Not super relevant but whatever...
I barely ever see the lingerling ones hit... I think it's because they need to catch on a surface and get "stuck", which is when it would register really fast. In the video I first saw of it, it was only achieved when the pyro attack from above, because the particles would get stuck on the floor I believe and that's when the Scout would almost instantly die. I don't think I've run a crossed it in game yet though, if I have it definitely was rare... and this coming from someone that bombs people all the time with Pyro. To some extent it may actually be intention, seeing as the the thermal thruster allows the Pyro to bomb people if he can catch them off guard. Probably something a Valve employee would have to varify for us if they actually wanted it that way or not.
Worst comes to worse, I feel that a simple delay before particles can register again in the code would solve it probably. Seems like a fairly simple fix...
[QUOTE=Kitt Stargaze;53024224]This I question? From what saw from that exploit, the one where changing the direction you were facing effected if the hits registered as crits or not correct? That doesn't sound like that was directly caused by the lingering particles. More like a bug that links the direct your facing to the particles themselves.
If it were lingerling particles that caused it directly I believe that would mean they would register as critical hits regardless of which direction you were facing wouldn't it?[/QUOTE]
The angle check was what was fixed by valve, so the problem went away, although from the testing we did, it was the particles that were still there creating the problem, since they had (apparently) the attribute of "still being fired" while facing at that incorrect angle, even if you had stopped or were shooting elsewhere, which is one of the two prerequisites for an "attack from behind".
This didn't exist before JI, and nobody has ever been able to produce that effect in the history of TF2 with the pre-JI flames. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[QUOTE=C. Blades;53024223] "Just get gud" as an argument requires a hefty analysis of your position.[/QUOTE]
"just get gud" and "adapt to new challenges and interactions" are a far cry from one another bud, but I can't expect you to understand this I guess considering you seem to have so much trouble with dying to dead pyros
[QUOTE=ikes;53024227]"just get gud" and "adapt to new challenges and interactions" are a far cry from one another bud, but I can't expect you to understand this I guess considering you seem to have so much trouble with dying to dead pyros[/QUOTE]
So instead of an explanation of your position which, potentially might change my mind, I get an insult and a refusal to even address the issue.
Nice. That's all anyone needs to know right there.
I think we're done here.
[QUOTE=C. Blades;53024226]The angle check was what was fixed by valve, so the problem went away, although from the testing we did, it was the particles that were still there creating the problem, since they had (apparently) the attribute of "still being fired" while facing at that incorrect angle, even if you had stopped or were shooting elsewhere, which is one of the two prerequisites for an "attack from behind".
This didn't exist before JI, and nobody has ever been able to produce that effect in the history of TF2 with the pre-JI flames. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯[/QUOTE]
SigSegv's explanation of the bug indicates that it was not a result of lingering particles. It was due to the fact that the [I]attacker's[/I] angles were being compared to the victim's angles at the point of impact, which is obviously problematic when you can change your angles before impact.
[url]https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/7jnywg/comment/dr82byy[/url]
Also, the Backburner actually originally launched with a slightly different backside-crits without hitting backs bug. Quoted from the July 1st, 2008 update: "Fixed Backburner's flame critical hits not being recalculated after collision. This meant that it would check if the target was looking away once and after that the flame could score a critical hit again even if the orientation changed."
Not as egregious as the Jungle Inferno bug obviously.
[url]https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Backburner#Update_history[/url]
I finally did it lads. After years of using it I finally got my Mad Milk to be Hale's Own. Thing is I didn't know I'd make it Hales Own since it was close and got it to be that way in a friendly server :v:.
[t]https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/918038733006522475/2D6417DEAFA82EB4914E2C4FA8DE849990FA7896/[/t]
[QUOTE=Jboby1;53024025][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/xlg6EZL.png[/IMG]
Don't toy with my emotions like this, Steam Workshop
(It just leads to a pack of taunts that the creator made. Very few of which are in-game, but the workshop just put the entire collection as "Accepted".)[/QUOTE]
they should just remove that feature that marks collections as accepted for tf2, they never add full sets anyway
i'm a pyro main since 2007 and i miss leading my flames or actually working for my kills
[QUOTE=Hell-met;53024609]i'm a pyro main since 2007 and i miss leading my flames or actually working for my kills[/QUOTE]
Yes let's go back to 2007 where Pyro didn't have airblast, or let's go back to the backburner when it gave Pyro 75 health, or back to puff and sting with the original airblast which required even less effort.
Pyro was always an unbalanced mess. This is probably the best iteration compared to the the degreaser axtinguisher shitfest or having you only option literally be W+M1 when airblast wasn't a thing.
It's better than Pyro's best source of damage was stunlock shitfest, or better when Pyro was literally outclassed by Heavy in every single way possible.
pyro in 2007 was fine
back then his role was ambushing, the way he was originally designed
now pyro is a mess of playstyles that defy everything the class was made for
[QUOTE=Vincentor;53024663]pyro in 2007 was fine
back then his role was ambushing, the way he was originally designed
now pyro is a mess of playstyles that defy everything the class was made for[/QUOTE]
Back in 2007 nobody played Pyro because he was absolute trash. You were better going Heavy for every single situation.
[QUOTE=Zadrave;53024656]Yes let's go back to 2007 where Pyro didn't have airblast, or let's go back to the backburner when it gave Pyro 75 health, or back to puff and sting with the original airblast which required even less effort.[/QUOTE]
having both the experience and actually being there back then, I can testify those were nowhere as broken or debilitating as JI pyro. (50 hp btw)
OH and the actual original airblast was faaaaaaar way more difficult to use with less results. The one with less RoF and no minicrits, yes?
Worst thing is that the new flamethrower is almost perfect except for some visual mismatch and the particles damaging you as long as you're inside them except of only doing it once. I have had moderate success trying to dodge constant streams of fire as Scout by double jumping because the visuals do match the hitboxes a 90% of the time. The TF2 team only needs to fix these issues and it will be perfect, so what's delaying them?
I mean maybe I'm a god or something but I never ran into any issues with Pyro whatsoever since JI. It's just being aware of where you're standing (Wow, positioning? Something you had to do against Pyro anyways?) and being at a mid-range distance. I can also say I have never died from the withstanding particles except maybe once as Sniper. But since it was a Pyro and I'm a Sniper I was going to die anyway because I didn't have the Danger Shield equipped, and if a Pyro is that close to you as Sniper, you're playing Sniper wrong (which I was) or you're very unaware of your surroundings. Even as Scout I never had problems taking out Pyros.
[QUOTE=Zadrave;53024679]I mean maybe I'm a god or something but I never ran into any issues with Pyro whatsoever since JI. It's just being aware of where you're standing (Wow, positioning? Something you had to do against Pyro anyways?) and being at a mid-range distance. I can also say I have never died from the withstanding particles except maybe once as Sniper. But since it was a Pyro and I'm a Sniper I was going to die anyway because I didn't have the Danger Shield equipped, and if a Pyro is that close to you as Sniper, you're playing Sniper wrong (which I was) or you're very unaware of your surroundings. Even as Scout I never had problems taking out Pyros.[/QUOTE]
snarky talk doesn't go anywhere. I easily identify the flaws as I play pyro.
not to mention there are many factors that make your experiences disorted such as you're facing literal potatoes that have no grasp of the potential of the new flamer, you play very passively and don't actually try to get things done, the quality of the server, map or player count, etc.
There are plenty of big names that call out the idiocy of JI flamers despite spending all day wiping the floor with pyros.
I'm a newly converted Pyro main because being able to win any 1v1 by flailing around wildly is too good to miss
it's even better when it's a 1v2 or 3 and I melt them before they can reasonably react. Or when they actually do react in time to kill me, but my lingering, invisible flame particles are still active long enough to do full flame damage to them and kill them after my death.
Truly, the epitome of skilled play in TF2. I've never been so mechanically challenged and engaged as a player. 👌
[QUOTE=Hell-met;53024683]snarky talk doesn't go anywhere. I easily identify the flaws as I play pyro. not to mention there are many factors that make your experiences disorted such as you're facing literal potatoes that have no grasp of the potential of the new flamer, you play very passively and don't actually try to get things done, the quality of the server, map or player count, etc. There are plenty of big names that call out the idiocy of JI flamers despite spending all day wiping the floor with pyros.[/QUOTE] But people here said it's a problem with Pyro in causal, not competitive. If that's the case, how come I haven't run into any problems for the 50 or so levels (~100 hours give or take) on my account I went through ever since JI? Surely someone would've been dominating me or something as Pyro at this point if it is such a widespread problem people make it out to be. I'm not trying to be snarky, I don't think I'm great at the game but never ran into problems. It's something blown way out of proportion because of one youtube video someone put up.
As Jugador said, the new flamer isn't "all bad", at its core its an improvement to old flamer but there's only a couple problems left to sort out. Once the dmg potential per-particle and the no-aim flail stuff are fixed then flamers will be amazing for everyone.
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