[QUOTE=Hell-met;53024697]As Jugador said, the new flamer isn't "all bad", at its core its an improvement to old flamer but there's only a couple problems left to sort out. Once the dmg potential per-particle and the no-aim flail stuff are fixed then flamers will be amazing for everyone.[/QUOTE] I'm not saying there isn't problems, I'm saying people are making it out to be abysmal even though in game you can hardly notice them or anyone abuse them in actual play. I don't want Valve to see the shitfest and say "Oh shit we gotta do something" and overly nerf Pyro into uselessness. [i]Again.[/i]
[QUOTE=Vincentor;53024663]pyro in 2007 was fine
back then his role was ambushing, the way he was originally designed
now pyro is a mess of playstyles that defy everything the class was made for[/QUOTE]
That may have been the case, but consider the maps of 2007: Chokey and full of nooks a pyro could hide in.
Over time the style of maps changed to be more open and smoothed out. Any nooks felt more accidental than intentional. The 2007 pyro struggles to stay relevant if the layout doesn't cater to his strengths.
[QUOTE=Blade Rx69;53024706]That may have been the case, but consider the maps of 2007: Chokey and full of nooks a pyro could hide in.
Over time the style of maps changed to be more open and smoothed out. Any nooks felt more accidental than intentional. The 2007 pyro struggles to stay relevant if the layout doesn't cater to his strengths.[/QUOTE]
no lol 2007 pyro was not "fine". With zero chance to stand-on against power classes or survive and weak flames that gave no feedback and seemingly did nothing, Soldier was literally a straight upgrade to pyro and pretty much anything could ambush better than it.
And so TF2 did not get the "Labor of Love" award.
what a shame :s:
[QUOTE=Creeps;53024714]And so TF2 did not get the "Labor of Love" award.
what a shame :s:[/QUOTE]
Surprised Warframe got it seeing how most of their updates feel like it's for the money and not so much love and care.
Every Major TF2 update feels like it's a love letter to the community.
[QUOTE=Vincentor;53024663]pyro in 2007 was fine
back then his role was ambushing, the way he was originally designed
now pyro is a mess of playstyles that defy everything the class was made for[/QUOTE]
He was also terrible at ambushing, like a spy without the ability to go invisible. That's probably why he got so many different playstyles to begin with. He had no tools back then to really do it well against a team that knew how to communicate...
[QUOTE=Hell-met;53024697]As Jugador said, the new flamer isn't "all bad", at its core its an improvement to old flamer but there's only a couple problems left to sort out. Once the dmg potential per-particle and the no-aim flail stuff are fixed then flamers will be amazing for everyone.[/QUOTE]
I'll agree with this. For the most part, I liked the direction the flamethrower went in. But even I won't say it was perfect by any means. The whole "every flame particle hits even if only one actually lands" is way too forgiving and makes the class less about skill and more about spam for instance. I don't feel this one is as bad as people make it out to be ( I only really see it factor in on pyro vs pyro fights, and scouts who are dumb and get within the flamethrowers range ), but to say it's a healthy way to do the class is not true by any means. I see it more of a "quick fix".
I'd like to see them ironed out if possible without sacrificing what the Pyro is currently capable of IMO. I'd also like to see him probably skill index a little, which is why I was suggesting that one overheat mechanic earlier. Something to make him feel more skill based while making it reasonable so that it doesn't cripple him in the process.
10 years later it might be a good time to fix self splash damage on soldier, valve :downs:
[QUOTE=Hell-met;53024829]10 years later it might be a good time to fix self splash damage on soldier, valve :downs:[/QUOTE]
You mean how soldier has an innate resistance to rockets that don't also hit enemies?
dodgefigthing another pyro and get the kill (even agaisnt critboosted phlogs) was one hell of a skill. same with being able to outgun sentries and engineers nest with no cover other than good positioning.
nowdays, while still posible to dodgefight other pyros and best them by pure skill there is an unwanted random chance that his attack will still hit you and damage or even kill you no matter how better you are at mobility. wich is what is basically killing any good use of the current particles as they are.
As a nip-in on my opinion on the new flamer:
The new faster flame particles is a good change, makes tracking enemies feel like the flames themselves actually hit.
The new airblast feels like a good change also, I see less pyros successfully airblasting projectiles which are nowhere near their flamer.
Now the things I still think can be improved:
Particles are insanely bright, fighting more than 2 pyros in a given area is like firing an arrow with a bow at a moving target while blinded by a floodlight.
Airblast strength feels inconsistent at times, I know enemies which are moving toward you receive less knockback while ones running away receive a ton.
But it never feels like that happens and enemies simply running to my left or right receive the maximum knockback as if they were running away from me.
Flail like a spaz tactic, focusing one single target should deal greater damage compared to brushing over many targets, as said before this could be done by checking how many particles are hitting consecutively.
"total push force increased" was the mistake that nearly undid every other airblast change. they just can't get anything right.
[QUOTE=TheBorealis;53024831]You mean how soldier has an innate resistance to rockets that don't also hit enemies?[/QUOTE]
That's how the Gunboats work.
Soldier's innate resistance only requires that you be in the air at the point of blast jumping.
This means you can use it not just for mobility, but in a combat situation too to avoid taking extra self blast damage.
I believe Hell-met is suggesting Valve make the innate resistance match the behaviour of (or act similarly to) the Gunboats' resistance.
The Gumboats' resistance applies at all times, regardless of being in the air or not. But damaging an enemy with the same blast will nullify it totally.
[QUOTE=starblaster64;53025015]That's how the Gunboats work.
Soldier's innate resistance only requires that you be in the air at the point of blast jumping.
This means you can use it not just for mobility, but in a combat scenario too to avoid taking extra self blast damage.
I believe Hell-met is suggesting Valve make the innate resistance match the behaviour of (or act similarly to) the Gunboats' resistance.
The Gumboats' resistance applies at all times, regardless of being in the air or not. But damaging at enemy with the same blast will nullify it totally.[/QUOTE]
No. It should be the full 80 damage if your explosion hits both you and an enemy regardless if you are jumping or not. Gboats or not.
right now it's still 40 if you are a big boy who does his big duckjumps. It's likely the same for demo self too.
(p.s jesus christ are they ever going to fix this forum's connection problems?)
[QUOTE=Hell-met;53025025]No. It should be the full 80 damage if your explosion hits both you and an enemy regardless if you are jumping or not. Gboats or not.
right now it's still 40 if you are a big boy who does his big duckjumps. It's likely the same for demo self too.
(p.s jesus christ are they ever going to fix this forum's connection problems?)[/QUOTE]
Isn't that what I just said?
By making the innate resistance match the behaviour of Gunboat' resistance, that's exactly what you'd get.
Got shat on in MvM for using BASE jumper with Airstrike by some heavy with fancy 5000$ backpack and 60 tours. At the end of the game I had 270k damage while he only had 110k. Smh
Basically killed all the big scout bots, medics for big bots and tanks ( Doing all the work for our f2p pyro and engineer ). And yet he still complained. Someone even wanted to kick him for complaining too much, I don't get it, why can't people have fun in MvM anymore.
[QUOTE=qubestf2;53025066] why can't people have fun in MvM anymore.[/QUOTE]
all the casual players left
Tiny update just kicked in, 21.6 MB file size
[QUOTE=qubestf2;53025066]why can't people have fun in MvM anymore.[/QUOTE]
Combination of things:
1. Shinies being dangled at the end of tours
2. Ignorant people jumping into MvM before even understanding the base game, let a lone MvM
3. People ignoring advice given to them and playing by their own rules
4. People getting tired of dealing with those people and no longer wanting to put up with them.
After a while, this is what creates those people who just go "Screw it, kick the scrub" instead. Why things like "meta's" are enforced and what not... They just want to get the tour over with and be done with it for a chance of something valuable. It's far worse though in MMORPG's that I've played. Having spent months leveling a character, only to mess up in an endgame group, then said endgame group spreads it around that your trash to all the good groups and you are literally black listed from ever doing endgame unless you start a brand new character lol.
[QUOTE=Kitt Stargaze;53025115]Tiny update just kicked in, 21.6 MB file size[/QUOTE]
its on blog [url]http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=36070[/url]
[QUOTE=Kitt Stargaze;53025115]Tiny update just kicked in, 21.6 MB file size[/QUOTE]
[code]
Fixed missing War Paint icons in the Steam Community Market and Steam Inventory
Fixed The Hot Hand not displaying the item level in its description
Fixed Steam Workshop file uploads applying filesize limits before compression, rather than after
Updated materials for the Dovetailed War Paint to fix a problem with the alpha channel
Updated materials/models for The Snowmann and The Nuke
Updated the localization files
[/code]
Hello localization files my old friends.
[QUOTE=qubestf2;53025066]Got shat on in MvM for using BASE jumper with Airstrike by some heavy with fancy 5000$ backpack and 60 tours. At the end of the game I had 270k damage while he only had 110k. Smh
Basically killed all the big scout bots, medics for big bots and tanks ( Doing all the work for our f2p pyro and engineer ). And yet he still complained. Someone even wanted to kick him for complaining too much, I don't get it, why can't people have fun in MvM anymore.[/QUOTE]
People who are assholes in MvM tend to be high tour players for the most part from my experience. Still, I think that MvM is still fun as long as you don't encounter those people.
[QUOTE=EmilyVasquez;53025124]People who are assholes in MvM tend to be high tour players for the most part from my experience. Still, I think that MvM is still fun as long as you don't encounter those people.[/QUOTE]
"Following the meta is more important than having fun"
Like, fuck them, I've paid for my ticket, I am having fun with it lmao. I agree, high tours are tend to be assholes most of the time. Besides I was carrying them hard and dealing the most damage, I don't understand what's there to complain about.
[QUOTE=qubestf2;53025126]"Following the meta is more important than having fun"
Like, fuck them, I've paid for my ticket, I am having fun with it lmao. I agree, high tours are tend to be assholes most of the time.[/QUOTE]
Most of the players I've seen/played with in MvM don't really seem to care much about having something like a Pyro on the team instead of a Demo since the JI update cause of the Gas Passer and what not, plus some people just wanna finish their tours if they are almost done with them. Though on some chances you might encounter a team that's really chill and might even goof off. Still, these high tour players seem to think that due to them being rich and having a lot of tours that means that they are the king of everyone on the server, hence why if you deal with them on the server they have their head so far up their ass the only thing listening to them is their colon. Though I've actually encountered high tour players who are also chill for the most part and rarely talk in chat.
[QUOTE=EmilyVasquez;53025129]Most of the players I've seen/played with in MvM don't really seem to care much about having something like a Pyro on the team instead of a Demo since the JI update cause of the Gas Passer and what not, plus some people just wanna finish their tours if they are almost done with them. Though on some chances you might encounter a team that's really chill and might even goof off. Still, these high tour players seem to think that due to them being rich and having a lot of tours that means that they are the king of everyone on the server, hence why if you deal with them on the server they have their head so far up their ass the only thing listening to them is their colon. Though I've actually encountered high tour players who are also chill for the most part and rarely talk in chat.[/QUOTE]
I wasn't goofing off though, as I said, I finished with 270k damage.
[QUOTE=qubestf2;53025137]I wasn't goofing off though, as I said, I finished with 270k damage.[/QUOTE]
Yeah. Some people, even when you're playing the game and pulling your part, still tend to be anal about something for whatever reason.
can we have new weapons in the drop system plz
need hot hand already
[QUOTE=Hell-met;53025148]can we have new weapons in the drop system plz
need hot hand already[/QUOTE]
Probably not until after the campaign is over in February. They are still contract rewards, after all.
I hope they don't drop and they do something like changing the contract ones to a new quality for campaigns or something and making them new achievement items. Would be cool.
I still have my MvM ticket from Smissmas 2014.
[QUOTE=windows098;53025171]I hope they don't drop and they do something like changing the contract ones to a new quality for campaigns or something and making them new achievement items. Would be cool.[/QUOTE]
Would be nice if they keep the Pyroland contracts forever to get the new released weapons from there.
Maybe would help with metal inflation :)
[QUOTE=qubestf2;53025176]Would be nice if they keep the Pyroland contracts forever to get the new released weapons from there.
Maybe would help with metal inflation :)[/QUOTE]
Personally I would love to see all regular weapons obtained through contracts instead of the current mess of a system but Valve would probably lose too much money by not selling them in the store anymore.
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